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Scottish Politics 2011-2017


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Just now, mountain shadow said:

Tragedy is no excuse for alternative facts though Nick, all the speech had to say was one of the oldest Parliaments not THE oldest. It was said that way to give more gravitas to the situation.

In fact you could argue that the UK parliament has only existed for 300 years or did she mean the English parliament?

Pedantic maybe? But I guarantee unionists will use this terrorist attack to their advantage. 

I may well be wrong (hardly unheard of) but didn't the Vikings have the worlds first parliament...like 1100 years ago?

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And that ignorant, offensive, rant sums up exactly why the YES campaign failed  

Good god. What a load of boarish spiteful bile from bad losers has been posted during the night. I actually dread to think how Scotland would be run if this is representative of how the yes vote behav

I'm disappointed in the lack of grace shown by some across the net in accepting this No vote. A complete lack of any empathy and understanding as to why fellow Scots didn't vote Yes.   I personally

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50 minutes ago, skifreak said:

Primarily Tory Prime Ministers as heads of government from the time I was born with the sole exception of John Major.  But you are making the same insulting assertion, that by not wanting Scotland to be governed  from England, in the same way England is governed and by not wishing to follow the same political path then I must therefore hate the English. That requires viewing the UK as greater England, which it is not, never has been and never will be. Are every nation that left the Empire anti-English?

On the more wider question, yes i despise the Tory party and most of what it stands for and in particular the socially conservative, Thatcherite, anti-welfare and in-particular the old Tory homophobic, racist and little Englander element (plus UKIP).  At a fundamental level as I was growing up the Tories were against even basic democracy for Scotland, the actions of the Thatcher government had devastating consequences on entire communities and regions of Scotland, yet Scotland time and again voted against the Tories, yet could not remove the Scottish Ministers, smug Tory unionists sitting in the Scottish Office untouchable by the democratic process. 

So like that mydavidcameron.com poster in 2010 - "Why do I hate the Tories? I'm Scottish" ! :D

Hmm....so do you hate Tory voters and/or the English?

Do you LIKE the English?

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2 minutes ago, mountain shadow said:

Tragedy is no excuse for alternative facts though Nick, all the speech had to say was one of the oldest Parliaments not THE oldest. It was said that way to give more gravitas to the situation.

In fact you could argue that the UK parliament has only existed for 300 years or did she mean the English parliament?

Pedantic maybe? But I guarantee unionists will use this terrorist attack to their advantage.

I really don't think May and her advisors sat there trying to work out how to bring a Unionist slant to her speech. And its not as if the indy ref is in two weeks and they were desperately trying to spin this for political gain.

I'm happy to criticize May as people who follow these threads are aware of however I felt her speech was fitting for the circumstances.

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7 minutes ago, Ed Stone said:

I may well be wrong (hardly unheard of) but didn't the Vikings have the worlds first parliament...like 1100 years ago?

It's open to interpretation Pete. Iceland I believe goes back to the 10th Century. As does the Isle of Man. However if you delve further than wiki  I remember studies I did many years again state that parliament democracy goes back way further  England in fact had a democracy in the seventh Century and Greece further back . Not really worth discussing. Which I am doing now. Whoops 

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36 minutes ago, 4wd said:

The SNP manipulated the Brexit vote by effectively promising that a vote to remain north of the border would be a way to demand referendum #2.

The SNP manipulated the EU referendum because they mentioned this very scenario   In a May 2016 manifesto before the referendum?

If it had any effect at all in the way you describe it was the opposite way - lowering the remain vote because certainly at least some voted leave in the belief the remain vote would be overwhelming in Scotland so they could risk a leave vote to make Brexit more likely! Tactical voting in a binary ref!! 

 

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The SNP only exists to push this one idea

If that was so, then they would not have been relected and would not after 10 years in power be polling above the level achieved in the 2007 election.

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Scotlad will have to keep voting on one pretext or another until the correct resut is achieved - or we all die of boredom watching the fish woman being outraged yet again.

Scotland will keep voting if we keep electing govts with such a manifesto commitment. 

The misrepresentation of 'once in a generation' has been explained so many times, have you got no better argument?

Circumstsnces leading to Scottish constitutional referendums have come about roughly 18 years apart - it was a historical observation with respect to when the stars might align again - not a pledge, not a policy, not a commitment. Those who decry otherwise are liars and they know they are lying.

Edited by skifreak
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We are where we are and when Holyrood reconvenes we will be where we will be.

No one is being forced to partake in the Indy debate, nor will they be forced to vote for either side. Those of us who do, will take the trouble to learn, listen and vote. Some may even change sides. Nothing is set in concrete, nor, in a democracy, should it be.

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24 minutes ago, Bristle boy said:

Hmm....so do you hate Tory voters and/or the English?

Do you LIKE the English?

Do the majority of Northern England like the political outlook of the Home Counties? I doubt it - does that make them anti English? 

Theres English people I know and like, there's English people I can't stand. Funnily enough that's the same scenario with Scottish people and people from anywhere.

i disagree profoundly with the decision of England to vote for Brexit and elect a Tory government - so far as that is a matter for those living in England, it is for them to decide. My issue with those who argue that Scotland shall do as England votes. 

 

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8 hours ago, Blitzen said:

Yes. I didn't want another referendum and still don't; I'd hoped 2014 would have finalised things. But needs must and the people have spoken.

I think those backing pro-UK parties need to accept the results of the 2007, 2009, 2011, 2012, 2014, 2015, and, takes breath, 2016 elections and move on.

Especially if the 2017 elections result in the same message.

Should have offered Devo Max then a special deal to stay in the EEA, but those ships have sailed.

And ultimately, above all, time is on the side of yes. Has been so my whole life; one of watching the (imperial) UK crumble a little more each year as it passes slowly into history. 

Next Wednesday the Union flag, inching painfully slowly down the pole, will take another sharp step downwards; one that will put it within the grasp of those waiting to finally roll it up and put it away.

Edited by scottish skier
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The morning after the brexit night before picking up pace now.

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http://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-britain-economy-retail-idUKKBN16U0YT?il=0

UK retail sales suffer biggest three-monthly drop since 2010 as fuel costs bite

British retail sales in the three months to February recorded their biggest slide in nearly seven years as higher fuel prices eroded shoppers' disposable income, official data showed on Thursday.

British inflation is starting to climb rapidly in the wake of the hefty slide in sterling seen after June's vote to leave the European Union - something economists expect to eat into consumer demand, the main motor of British economic growth...

...Inflation is now at its fastest since 2013 is course to overtake wage growth, leaving Britons with less to spend on non-essential items. The price or retail goods sold in February increased on an annual basis by 2.8 percent, the most since March 2012.

Consumer credit card binge is of course what's been keeping the UK's head above water.

EDIT

Meanwhile, for balance, across the channel.

Quote

http://www.euronews.com/2017/03/23/ecb-says-survey-data-point-to-robust-first-quarter-euro-zone-growth

ECB says survey data point to robust first quarter euro zone growth

FRANKFURT (Reuters) – The economic recovery in the euro zone is steadily firming and survey results point to robust growth in the first quarter, despite ample global uncertainty, the European Central Bank said in a regular economic bulletin on Thursday. “Incoming data, notably survey results, have increased the Governing Council’s confidence that the ongoing economic expansion will continue to firm and broaden,” the ECB said. “Surveys point to a robust growth momentum in the first quarter of 2017.”

 

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2 hours ago, scottish skier said:

Next Wednesday the Union flag, inching painfully slowly down the pole, will take another sharp step downwards; one that will put it within the grasp of those waiting to finally roll it up and put it away.

You almost brought a tear to my eyes but I think Brexit is great news for the whole of the United kingdom, yes including scotland and I see no reason why we can't remain United for many years to come..brexit means brexit and all that..peace and goodwill to all. :- )

Edited by Frosty.
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7 minutes ago, Frosty. said:

You almost brought a tear to my eyes but I think Brexit is great news for the whole of the United kingdom, yes including scotland and I see no reason why can't remain United for many years to come..brexit means brexit and all that..peace and goodwill to all. :- )

Remain means remain in these parts. The people have spoken; an overwhelming vote for unity with Europe.

Aye, peace and goodwill to all. A bit sad to see you guys in England don't want to be united with us and our European friends, but all the best on your adventure.

Hope you find yourselves.:good:

 

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Debate on a second Indy Ref to be re-convened on Tuesday by the sounds of it. Personally I have mixed feelings, on one hand it would feel somewhat 'inappropriate' to continue it today, but on the other hand I'm firmly in the 'don't let the terrorists win' camp. In the grand scheme of thing though a few days of delay will be pretty insignificant.

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3 minutes ago, scottish skier said:

Remain means remain in these parts. The people have spoken; an overwhelming vote for unity with Europe.

Aye, peace and goodwill to all. A bit sad to see you guys in England don't want to be united with us and our European friends, but all the best on your adventure.

Hope you find yourselves.:good:

 

I didnt realise it was a given you leaving SS?.  If so  Great news. All the best.

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8 minutes ago, Frosty. said:

You almost brought a tear to my eyes but I think Brexit is great news for the whole of the United kingdom, yes including scotland and I see no reason why we can't remain United for many years to come..brexit means brexit and all that..peace and goodwill to all. :- )

Apart from still-repeated lies and Panglossian wishful-thinking, I'm yet to see how Brexit can be anything but an unmitigated disaster?

No wonder Scots are getting restless...

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Just now, Ed Stone said:

Apart from still-repeated lies and Panglossian wishful-thinking, I'm yet to see how Brexit can be anything but an unmitigated disaster?

No wonder Scots are getting restless...

I thought things were improving Ed, it's a brave New world for the uk.

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48 minutes ago, scottish skier said:

Consumer credit card binge is of course what's been keeping the UK's head above water.

Looks like the binge has resumed...already posted in the eu thread . That's not in the script...

https://www.poundsterlinglive.com/gbp-live-today/6432-gbp-to-eur-and-usd-retail-sales-march-17/amp

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12 minutes ago, weirpig said:

I didnt realise it was a given you leaving SS?.  If so  Great news. All the best.

We've been wandering off on different journeys since around 1950.

It's just, up until now, we've remained in sight of one another.

Edited by scottish skier
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5 minutes ago, Mark wheeler said:

Looks like the binge has resumed...already posted in the eu thread . That's not in the script...

https://www.poundsterlinglive.com/gbp-live-today/6432-gbp-to-eur-and-usd-retail-sales-march-17/amp

Expanded discussion of the UK /EU economy is more appropriate in the thread for this. Just the main headline items are relevant here.

As I posted above, UK retail sales have just suffered their biggest three-monthly drop since 2010, with the £ showing no signs of any meaningful recovery.

Here is the £ this morning:

pound.png

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Won't let me quote you SS .

Just posted an article that's all , good news , let's keep an eye out on the future trend . SS you would have been all over this had it been negative , the fact is it was positive was the reason you did not include the data . Everyone knows the pound has fell well away . So why not Post a little positive news it will probably fall away soon again ( news is news otherwise why publish the article by experts ) , even if it is temporary.

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2 hours ago, Mark wheeler said:

SS you would have been all over this had it been negative , the fact is it was positive was the reason you did not include the data . 

Erm, I posted the retail news earlier today, which included a discussion on the £.

I've also just posted a plot of the change in the value of the £ vs the Euro. I happy to do so; in no way goes against my arguments.

If the pound shows signs of real, meaningful recovery, I'll talk about it. If it goes up such a small amount that it's all but imperceptible, I'll not. I'd be here all day if I talked about such tiny daily changes. The only people that are interested in such minute ups and downs (because they make money here in small, cumulative amounts by speculating) are currency traders; hence that's who you e.g. get articles from noting such tiny changes.

There is no positive picture to be painted here Mark. I've happily agreed that the UK initially performed better than many expected initially post-brexit vote (although I never personally made any wild claims it would not; generally forecasting a painfully slow economic train crash). However, everything I worried about is now coming to pass and it can't be glossed over.

The brexit party is over. Time to face the morning after.

And it will be a long morning after; a lost generation at least.

And anyway, Leave say a rise in the £ would be bad for the 'UK manufacturing renaissance'. :)

----

 

EDIT

The 3M/3M data for retail sales data (thanks to @kar999) shows the underlying trend well for the 'year of brexit'.

'Falling off a cliff' would be apt.

800x-1.png

Hence 'worst since 2010'.

Edited by scottish skier
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1 hour ago, Ed Stone said:

Apart from still-repeated lies and Panglossian wishful-thinking, I'm yet to see how Brexit can be anything but an unmitigated disaster?

No wonder Scots are getting restless...

I respect your opinion Ed..I mean pete:D

 

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