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Scottish Politics 2011-2017


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PM just on saying this was an attack on the oldest Parliament in the world..

Really?

Iceland, Isle of Man, to name but two.

Also, Westminster will return as normal tomorrow to show British democracy will not be defeated yet Holyrood shut down?

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And that ignorant, offensive, rant sums up exactly why the YES campaign failed  

Good god. What a load of boarish spiteful bile from bad losers has been posted during the night. I actually dread to think how Scotland would be run if this is representative of how the yes vote behav

I'm disappointed in the lack of grace shown by some across the net in accepting this No vote. A complete lack of any empathy and understanding as to why fellow Scots didn't vote Yes.   I personally

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6 hours ago, mountain shadow said:

It's not the English Supreme Court, it's the UK's. The Scottish judges voted alongside the English and NI judges.

Will just have to see how it plays out.

Yes, but it was sitting as an English court under English Law - there is not UK law and the court can not sit under more than one jurisdiction at one time. None of the arguments have been tested under Scots Law in the Court of Session, though not entirely unrelated ones maybe with regards an IndyRef. Should such a case end up in the Supreme Court it would at that juncture be a Scottish Court sitting under Scots Law (though there would be English judges sitting too) and it is thus not beyond the realms of possibility that a situation could arise in the future where parallel and related cases arrive at the Supreme Court under English and Scots Law, only for that same court to make different judgements under each jurisdiction!

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2 minutes ago, scottish skier said:

Odd that you are on this thread then, actively seeking out discussion of the topic.

Not so odd, I have lots of friends and relatives in scotland who feel the same way as I do about the SNP's obsession regarding yet another scottish independence referendum, it's like a stuck record.

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7 minutes ago, Frosty. said:

Not so odd, I have lots of friends and relatives in scotland who feel the same way as I do about the SNP's obsession regarding yet another scottish independence referendum, it's like a stuck record.

Do you often spend your time intentionally seeking out people talking about stuff you are 'sick to death of hearing about' so you can butt into in their discussion to tell them this? 

I rather suspect you actually lack friends if the answer is yes.

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2 minutes ago, scottish skier said:

Do you often spend your time intentionally seeking out people talking about stuff you are 'sick to death of hearing about' so you can join in their discussion? 

I rather suspect you actually lack friends if the answer is yes.

I took great satisfaction from seeing the SNP fail to get independence last time..hoping for more of the same next time!:D 

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54 minutes ago, jvenge said:

Not sure how parliament acknowledging that Scottish people have the right to determine the form of their government has anything to do with another Scottish independence referendum.

That's exactly what it means in case you are thinking it means the Parliament confirming  Scottish people get to choose which party or parties form the Government. All but one Labour and all Lib Dem MPs from Scottish seats at the time also signed the Constitutional Convention's Claim of Right in 1989 re-asserting that constitutional principle of sovereignty of the people. The Smith Agreement after 2014 also expressly stated that nothing in the agreement prevented Scottish Independence if the Scottish People at a future time chose that option.

As for suspending the debate today in the Scottish Parliament, mixed feelings, I agree with it being the respectful decision and probably sensible from a practical point of view with everyone been distracted by the horrible events outside Westminster. However causing disruption to normality is the point of terrorism so, delays and disruption to the democratic processes should be as brief as respectfully and practically possible.

It does seem that the horrific events caused by someone who should never been behind the wheel in Glasgow in December 2014 when a bin lorry mowed down scores of pedestrians has given terrorists a horrifyingly simple, effective and always available attack concept. :(

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3 minutes ago, Frosty. said:

I took great satisfaction from seeing the SNP fail to get independence last time..hoping for more of the same next time!:D 

Just this sort of attitude from England that will help end the Union, so keep it up. Ta! 

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46 minutes ago, Frosty. said:

I'm sick of hearing about another Scottish independence referendum, it's all the SNP are interested in, 

I guess it's a slightly different version of SNP Bad south of the border then. I thought they were only interested in vanity projects. 

queensferrycrossing.jpg

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24 minutes ago, Frosty. said:

Not so odd, I have lots of friends and relatives in scotland who feel the same way as I do about the SNP's obsession regarding yet another scottish independence referendum, it's like a stuck record.

I have lots of friends and relatives in Scotland who are pretty fizzing about having their EU citizenship take away against not just their personal will but the democratically expressed will of Scotland. That includes elderly relatives from or who lived most of their life in England, who were strongly no in 2014, but who voted remain and now are unsure as to how they would vote in a second IndyRef. If people like them, the absolute core of the no vote are reconsidering then the Union is in trouble and it's not because of the actions of the SNP or Scottish Nationalists as a whole, it's in large part to the ignorance and arrogance of English Tories who time and again conflate Unionisim with English Nationalism. 

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2 minutes ago, skifreak said:

I have lots of friends and relatives in Scotland who are pretty fizzing about having their EU citizenship take away against not just their personal will but the democratically expressed will of Scotland. That includes elderly relatives from or who lived most of their life in England, who were strongly no in 2014, but who voted remain and now are unsure as to how they would vote in a second IndyRef. If people like them, the absolute core of the no vote are reconsidering then the Union is in trouble and it's not because of the actions of the SNP or Scottish Nationalists as a whole, it's in large part to the ignorance and arrogance of English Tories who time and again conflate Unionisim with English Nationalism. 

Do you mean English Tory MPs, party members or just any one who votes Tory? Or all 3 of those?

Do you have a hatred of anything Tory or even anything/anyone English?

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3 minutes ago, Bristle boy said:

Do you mean English Tory MPs, party members or just any one who votes Tory? Or all 3 of those?

Do you have a hatred of anything Tory or even anything/anyone English?

Why can't we all just get along, the world would be a happier place without all the bitterness and hatred..does anyone agree?:D

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2 minutes ago, Bristle boy said:

Do you mean English Tory MPs, party members or just any one who votes Tory? Or all 3 of those?

Do you have a hatred of anything Tory or even anything/anyone English?

Primarily Tory Prime Ministers as heads of government from the time I was born with the sole exception of John Major.  But you are making the same insulting assertion, that by not wanting Scotland to be governed  from England, in the same way England is governed and by not wishing to follow the same political path then I must therefore hate the English. That requires viewing the UK as greater England, which it is not, never has been and never will be. Are every nation that left the Empire anti-English?

On the more wider question, yes i despise the Tory party and most of what it stands for and in particular the socially conservative, Thatcherite, anti-welfare and in-particular the old Tory homophobic, racist and little Englander element (plus UKIP).  At a fundamental level as I was growing up the Tories were against even basic democracy for Scotland, the actions of the Thatcher government had devastating consequences on entire communities and regions of Scotland, yet Scotland time and again voted against the Tories, yet could not remove the Scottish Ministers, smug Tory unionists sitting in the Scottish Office untouchable by the democratic process. 

So like that mydavidcameron.com poster in 2010 - "Why do I hate the Tories? I'm Scottish" ! :D

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21 minutes ago, skifreak said:

I have lots of friends and relatives in Scotland who are pretty fizzing about having their EU citizenship take away against not just their personal will but the democratically expressed will of Scotland. That includes elderly relatives from or who lived most of their life in England, who were strongly no in 2014, but who voted remain and now are unsure as to how they would vote in a second IndyRef. If people like them, the absolute core of the no vote are reconsidering then the Union is in trouble and it's not because of the actions of the SNP or Scottish Nationalists as a whole, it's in large part to the ignorance and arrogance of English Tories who time and again conflate Unionisim with English Nationalism. 

This is a good post, I don't agree with it but it was an interesting read.:)

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1 hour ago, mountain shadow said:

PM just on saying this was an attack on the oldest Parliament in the world..

Really?

Iceland, Isle of Man, to name but two.

Also, Westminster will return as normal tomorrow to show British democracy will not be defeated yet Holyrood shut down?

Any opportunity. Bloody hell 

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38 minutes ago, scottish skier said:

You came on here simply to tell me and others you were sick of our discussion (on independence). If you have no interest in the topic / you are 'sick of hearing about it', what on earth are you doing on here commenting. Other than..

I'm tempted to report you for trolling. 

 

Let's smoke the pipes of peace and be friends:D

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2 minutes ago, nick sussex said:

MS we do often agree on  things in this thread however I feel your  post is inappropriate and uncalled for given the circumstances. As for Holyrood  that as far as I can see hasn't been suspended for tomorrow but it would have been terrible if Holyrood hadn't suspended its debate today. Nicola Sturgeon fully supported that move and gave a very good statement this evening.

Point scoring over which is the oldest parliament or trying to bash Westminster at this time is really poor form. As for May everyone knows my feelings about her, I'm hardly her biggest fan however I think she gave a very good speech outside no 10.

I agree Nick, this atrocity in London today should bring us all together, whatever our political views..

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9 minutes ago, ajpoolshark said:

more like, 'lets talk about scottish politics'

Are people complaining about people talking about Scottish politics in a Scottish politics thread?

On a different note currently just popped into a pub for a pint or two with a mate and heard this:

'at least there's no need to worry about pedophiles or terrorists up here in the Highlsnds. But the sheep, **** they're terrorised alright!'

:drunk-emoji: 

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44 minutes ago, skifreak said:

I have lots of friends and relatives in Scotland who are pretty fizzing about having their EU citizenship take away against not just their personal will but the democratically expressed will of Scotland. 

That would have happened if you voted to leave too.
The Scots I know are almost uanimously un-interested in another "once in a lifetime" independance vote.
It's already been used as a bargaining tool in other debates such as Nuclear submarines.
Brexit is just the latest wheeze to force independance votes at any opportunity.
So everytime the SNP doesn't like a UK policy there'll be another once-in-a-lifetime referendum - you'll get noting else done.

The SNP manipulated the Brexit vote by effectively promising that a vote to remain north of the border would be a way to demand referendum #2.
The SNP only exists to push this one idea, Scotlad will have to keep voting on one pretext or another until the correct resut is achieved - or we all die of boredom watching the fish woman being outraged yet again. https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=nicola+sturgeon+outrage

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4 minutes ago, nick sussex said:

 

Point scoring over which is the oldest parliament or trying to bash Westminster at this time is really poor form. 

Tragedy is no excuse for alternative facts though Nick, all the speech had to say was one of the oldest Parliaments not THE oldest. It was said that way to give more gravitas to the situation.

In fact you could argue that the UK parliament has only existed for 300 years or did she mean the English parliament?

Pedantic maybe? But I guarantee unionists will use this terrorist attack to their advantage. 

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4 minutes ago, Frosty. said:

I agree Nick, this atrocity in London today should bring us all together, whatever our political views..

I condemn this murderous attack as much as the next person, I just don't want it to be used for political advantage.

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1 minute ago, 4wd said:

That would have happened if you voted to leave too.
The Scots I know are almost uanimously un-interested in another "once in a lifetime" independance vote.
It's already been used as a bargaining tool in other debates such as Nuclear submarines.
Brexit is just the latest wheeze to force independance votes at any opportunity.
So everytime the SNP doesn't like a UK policy there'll be another once-in-a-lifetime referendum - you'll get noting else done.

The SNP manipulated the Brexit vote by effectively promising that a vote to remain north of the border would be a way to demand referendum #2.
The SNP only exists to push this one idea, Scotlad will have to keep voting on one pretext or another until the correct resut is achieved - or we all die of boredom watching the fish woman being outraged yet again. https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=nicola+sturgeon+outrage

Great post, agree 100 percent!:good:

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