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The PIT

Football Violence

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After the Celtic V Rangers game it has been brought back to media's attention.

One of the things that crosses my mind is that the clubs have quite a bit to do by controlling the players on the pitch. This goes for all clubs that have Derby games.

Shutting pubs down just stops people who have nothing to do with the game from enjoying a afternoon or evening out plus (In Sheffield anyway) pubs aren't compensated for lost earnings.

Most of though I think it's down to players too keep a calm head and not to stir things up.

Sometimes Policing leaves a bit to be desired. Millwall recently at the lane came prepared for trouble yet the police let them straight out of the ground and then lost control of them. Common sense says keep them in the ground simple really.

Another beauty Police came up with was putting the kick off back for health and safety in UTD v OWLS game. End result everyone stayed in the pub longer and drank more.

Then of course there's sometimes bad behaviour by fans stirred up by managers. Houlier went off on one against UTD after a league cup tie. End result at Anfield fans booing Monty when he was stretchered off something other clubs seemed to pick up on and a lot of friction between fans. Before that players used to clapped off thankfully that's now seemed to have gone again and I haven't seen that again until Leicester re-introduced it although the manager was blameless on that occasion.

Refs used to get crowds wound up but now they're so bad everyone takes it for granted.

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The problem with Celtic v Rangers is nothing to do with football, but bigotry and hatred fuelled with Buckfast and Lager. Nothing the authorities do will change a thing overtime. It will happen again.

Scottish football lives in a paradox where all the other teams want them to leave, they want to leave, but no one wants them.

Please England, take them from us?

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Please England, take them from us?

we dont want them... thanks for asking though :hi:

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After the Celtic V Rangers game it has been brought back to media's attention.

I'm not so sure that the Celtic v Rangers game was actually that violent? There were some handbags at dawn on the pitch and amongst the management staff, but as far as I know out of the 34 arrests within Parkhead 33 of them were for sectarian chants, not for violence. This surely shows that the police and stewards are acting to reduce sectarianism??

There are plenty of more violent examples of incidents at football matches from the UK and abroad in the past few weeks/months yet the Old Firm are an easy target to vilify. Don't confuse wider social issues with what happens in a football stadium. It is amazing how many people from outside Scotland have an opinion on a matter which quite frankly they know nothing about.

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we dont want them... thanks for asking though :hi:

Celtic and Rangers mid table in the prem they wouldn't want to lose all that extra money they for alternating between 1st and 2nd in Scottish league.

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The problem with Celtic v Rangers is nothing to do with football, but bigotry and hatred fuelled with Buckfast and Lager. Nothing the authorities do will change a thing overtime. It will happen again.

It's nothing to do with bigotry or hatred (let alone football) and everything to do with Buckfast and Lager.

Celtic and Rangers mid table in the prem they wouldn't want to lose all that extra money they for alternating between 1st and 2nd in Scottish league.

They would probably pan out about 5th and 6th after the big four. The extra TV revenue would go to them and would prop them up.

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Please England, take them from us?

What do we want them for? Bad enough having the Welsh teams in the English leagues!

Funny, Scotland and Wales don't want much to do with England, yet they want to put their football teams in our league.

(No offence intended to those fans of those teams!)

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It sounds like it was pretty bad stuff but I am pleased by the authorities' reaction:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/scot_prem/9419232.stm

Closed grounds is the sort of end point that I often expect us to end up at in these situations, for the same reasons as why we ban snowballs in schools because a few idiots abuse them, ban conkers in Tyneside because a few idiots abuse them etc etc. But sometimes, people do see past that way of thinking.

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Funny, Scotland and Wales don't want much to do with England, yet they want to put their football teams in our league.

(No offence intended to those fans of those teams!)

To be fare, I want them in any league other than ours, it's just your closest.

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What do we want them for? Bad enough having the Welsh teams in the English leagues!

Funny, Scotland and Wales don't want much to do with England, yet they want to put their football teams in our league.

(No offence intended to those fans of those teams!)

I thought you would be happy having Cardiff in the English league. :whistling: But seriously it the Welsh clubs have always been in the set-up for these leagues, so in this sense it is not an English league.

It is a slightly different matter for Scottish clubs who apart from a brief flirtation with the FA Cup in the early days, have never part of the set-up in the same way Welsh clubs have been.

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To be fare, I want them in any league other than ours, it's just your closest.

You call it "our league" yet you live in NI?! I don't get that MS, sorry! :unknw:

It sounds like it was pretty bad stuff but I am pleased by the authorities' reaction:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/scot_prem/9419232.stm

It wasn't that bad though TWS, it was all handbags at dawn. The media have fuelled the whole Rangers v Celtic thing combined with political opportunism with the forthcoming elections.

It was a stormy game but nothing out of the ordinary and far less than other incidents at games across Europe recently.

And certainly not this:

Actually watch the full run of the almost ten minute video and then come back and tell me that last week was anything at all bad.

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Wouldn't really want the Old Firm in the English leagues. Let them stay in their mickey mouse league!

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Wouldn't really want the Old Firm in the English leagues. Let them stay in their mickey mouse league!

I would agree on the point of the Old Firm staying north, although the "English League" isn't a fully English league as it includes certain Welsh clubs, a moot point.

I also wouldn't say that the SPL is a Mickey Mouse League, the only UK club to get a result in Europe tonight were Rangers. Man City lost 0-2 and Liverpool lost 0-1 while Rangers drew 0-0. Rangers and Celtic are in the top ten clubs in the UK in terms of average attendances, so hardly Mickey Mouse.

Your beloved WBA might be in a good league but you're just a wee diddy team with no history. Rangers and Celtic both have a lot to deal with and a long way to go, but you're kidding yourself if you think that your team is anything other than the wee team which has got lucky in terms of physical position. You've been in the right place at the right time but you're never going to do anything other than make up the numbers. Have WBA won anything in the last 40 years? Been in a final in the last 40 years?? :rofl: European pedigree? First UK club to win the European Cup or first UK club to play in the Champions' League?

The sad fact is Nick that clubs like WBA hang on the coat tails of the top four or even six. You would see the addition of the Old Firm as something way over and above your club's level so you see it as a threat. I do agree that the Old Firm shouldn't play as an extension of the English League, but you can't admit that you see it as a threat to a small, regional team like WBA. Let's face facts, if the Old Firm played in an extended UK league it would be lesser teams like yours which would be given the chop.

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Let's face facts, if the Old Firm played in an extended UK league it would be lesser teams like yours which would be given the chop.

Lets face facts why should the old firm play in the english league?? and if they did then they should start at the bottom..say the northern confrence league for example...certainly not in the EPL at the expense of teams like WBA or any team for that matter..earn the right like everyone else.

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I would agree on the point of the Old Firm staying north, although the "English League" isn't a fully English league as it includes certain Welsh clubs, a moot point.

I also wouldn't say that the SPL is a Mickey Mouse League, the only UK club to get a result in Europe tonight were Rangers. Man City lost 0-2 and Liverpool lost 0-1 while Rangers drew 0-0. Rangers and Celtic are in the top ten clubs in the UK in terms of average attendances, so hardly Mickey Mouse.

Your beloved WBA might be in a good league but you're just a wee diddy team with no history. Rangers and Celtic both have a lot to deal with and a long way to go, but you're kidding yourself if you think that your team is anything other than the wee team which has got lucky in terms of physical position. You've been in the right place at the right time but you're never going to do anything other than make up the numbers. Have WBA won anything in the last 40 years? Been in a final in the last 40 years?? :rofl: European pedigree? First UK club to win the European Cup or first UK club to play in the Champions' League?

The sad fact is Nick that clubs like WBA hang on the coat tails of the top four or even six. You would see the addition of the Old Firm as something way over and above your club's level so you see it as a threat. I do agree that the Old Firm shouldn't play as an extension of the English League, but you can't admit that you see it as a threat to a small, regional team like WBA. Let's face facts, if the Old Firm played in an extended UK league it would be lesser teams like yours which would be given the chop.

Why on earth are you attacking me about something I didn't even mention? Where in my post did I say that West Brom were some huge club? Completely unnecessary.

I'd rather support WBA than follow the bandwagon and support Manure or Chelsea. At least when we finally do get to a major final it will be special, and I will actually be able to watch it.

The average attendances in the SPL say it all, frankly...

http://www.scotprem....home_statistics

2 fairly big clubs, a couple who would cope in the Championship and the rest would be struggling to stay in League 1.

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Why on earth are you attacking me about something I didn't even mention? Where in my post did I say that West Brom were some huge club? Completely unnecessary.

I'd rather support WBA than follow the bandwagon and support Manure or Chelsea. At least when we finally do get to a major final it will be special, and I will actually be able to watch it.

The average attendances in the SPL say it all, frankly...

http://www.scotprem....home_statistics

2 fairly big clubs, a couple who would cope in the Championship and the rest would be struggling to stay in League 1.

I have to agree with Sir Nick here, i'm not having a direct dig at Scotland or Scottish Football but the SPL is dominated by the same 2 teams year after year, also i'm not sure how effective SPL teams would be in the Championship let alone the Premiership.

When Craig Levein was Leicester manager in 2005-2006 he brought down quite a few players from Scotland, Mark De Vries from Hearts, Stephen Hughes from Rangers, Rab Douglas from Celtic, Adam Hamill from Hearts, Alan Maybury from Hearts, Momo Sylla from Celtic and Patrick Kisnorbo from Hearts. We struggled a lot that season, only just avoided relegation to League 1. I think a lot of players that come from the SPL struggle in the Championship, some do well but a lot struggle. We bought another player from Hearts a few seasons back, Robbie Neilson, he has struggled for us too, most fans think he's poor and he's been loaned out to Brentford.

I don't think Rangers or Celtic would dominate the Championship, they would probably be top 6 but the other terms in the SPL like Hearts, Kilmarnock, Motherwell, Aberdeen etc... Would be fighting relegation IMO.

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In my opinion the Scottish game has declined alarmingly in the last decade- at the turn of the century I would have expected Celtic and Rangers to be good enough for mid to high table in the Premiership but as others are suggesting, I doubt that they're even of Premiership quality now.

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And also, the longer El Hadji Diouf stays away from the English game the better!!

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And also, the longer El Hadji Diouf stays away from the English game the better!!

Agreed, can't stand that man.

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The strength of the Scottish League was indicated how Greta rampaged into the top division before going to the wall. Gretna struggled in the none leagues before getting into the Scottish league.

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The strength of the Scottish League was indicated how Greta rampaged into the top division before going to the wall. Gretna struggled in the none leagues before getting into the Scottish league.

Well not really, they had a millionaire come in bankroll them, unfortunately we he died, they went bankcrupt.

Your right about the state of Scottish football though, it ain't great.

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In my opinion the Scottish game has declined alarmingly in the last decade- at the turn of the century I would have expected Celtic and Rangers to be good enough for mid to high table in the Premiership but as others are suggesting, I doubt that they're even of Premiership quality now.

Rangers and Celtic would do well in the Premiership if they had the TV money which the EPL clubs enjoy. With their current income of course they would struggle, but if they were in the Premiership they would have far greater income which equals far greater money to spend on players and therefore an increase in the quality of their football. It's all to easy to say "I doubt that they're even of Premiership quality now" but you're not comparing like with like. The average EPL team receives £45 million in TV money a year, the deal the SPL has with ESPN is worth £65m over 5 years for the whole league.

Both Rangers and Celtic have a far greater fan base than all clubs outside the top four in England, are you seriously trying to tell me that a wee diddy club like Wigan, WBA or Birmingham have more pedigree and world wide reach than either Rangers or Celtic? C'mon!

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The strength of the Scottish League was indicated how Greta rampaged into the top division before going to the wall. Gretna struggled in the none leagues before getting into the Scottish league.

Sorry PIT but this post shows that you don't understand the Scottish leagues, as Mountain Shadow points out they only did well because of a rich owner. Also the reality is they didn't ever win anything major, they were promoted a few times but that's it.

Do you not remember Blackburn? They bought their way to a title, so by your theory that shows the weakness of the EPL surely? Anyone with the right money can buy a league title, in any national league. Ambramovich?

The EPL is swimming in money but is it a strong league? Does it help the English national team, as a strong domestic league should? Arguably the English Championship is the strongest league in the world in terms of how rich it is and how strong the competition is every year.

Agreed, can't stand that man.

He was funny at the final yesterday. Came on for two minutes and got booked for diving and then acted as clown prince to the Rangers fans. The guy is a comic genious.

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Both Rangers and Celtic have a far greater fan base than all clubs outside the top four in England, are you seriously trying to tell me that a wee diddy club like Wigan, WBA or Birmingham have more pedigree and world wide reach than either Rangers or Celtic? C'mon!

Again, nobody, anywhere has said that on this thread!

And Birmingham will be playing European football next season, might I add.

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