Jump to content

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

The PIT

Rooney Elbowing Incident

Recommended Posts

Proof further that the people running the game are clueless morons. The referee says he took appropriate action at the time. mmmmmm I don't think so.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It's United - the FA are terrified of them, it's nothing new and sadly it will always remain in our game.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Quite often in these situations the rules are actually the main problem, and we see it again here:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/teams/m/man_utd/9409644.stm

The rules do not allow retrospective action against a player if the official sees the alleged offence.

So if the referee saw the incident but underestimated the severity, then under the current rules, the matter is closed, no matter how obvious it is that he warranted at least a booking and probably a straight red.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

the other player was not totally blameless, if you watch closely he leaned at Rooney to, presumably, try to prevent Rooney running through.

Having pointed that out the lack of any action by the ref other than talking to him beggars belief. No doubt whatever he should have been sent off. It left a rather sour taste to the match having watched the whole match.

not the first time the spoilt brat has done something similar and got away with it. The previous match as things were not going his way he had another off the ball incident which yet again he got away with. How Ferguson can say the media are all wrong and ganging up on him is extraordinary but then Ferguson also behaves like a spoilt brat at times. He is not alone being that way amongst other managers sadly. A number of them give no correct lead to players.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Whilst Rooney should be sent off, the rules that TWS posted means the FA can't do anything about it.

I'm just thinking, if it was a Wigan player in a match against a fellow small club in the premier league, would the media latch onto it? Of course not.

There is lots of incidents that happen on a football field that the referee either did not seen or did seen it and give his decision at the time.

Fergie is right, its only because its Rooney, people want to see him banned.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Whilst Rooney should be sent off, the rules that TWS posted means the FA can't do anything about it.

I'm just thinking, if it was a Wigan player in a match against a fellow small club in the premier league, would the media latch onto it? Of course not.

There is lots of incidents that happen on a football field that the referee either did not seen or did seen it and give his decision at the time.

Fergie is right, its only because its Rooney, people want to see him banned.

But that surely is the point.

He is one of the most well known footballers in the UK. No the most well known. As such he is copied by thousands of young lads starting to play the game

Many of the problems with todays game are caused by this lack of action by the FA in the past. Such as falling over to get a free kick or penalty as soon as the control of the ball is lost (I am trying to be generous here), and not saying that they are playing for it.

I believe that all this will only stop when a sinbin type system is employed. Fergie will soon stop these antics if his players are sent off the pitch for these petulant fouls.

He seems to encourage this type of behavior.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Quite often in these situations the rules are actually the main problem, and we see it again here:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/teams/m/man_utd/9409644.stm

So if the referee saw the incident but underestimated the severity, then under the current rules, the matter is closed, no matter how obvious it is that he warranted at least a booking and probably a straight red.

In Rugby Union, there have a citing procedure, with an independent panel, where an offence can be dealt with more severely after the event even if dealt with at the time by the referee. This is a more satisfactory way of dealing with such incident.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think football would do well generally to take note of how rugby operates regarding discipline of players, use of video technology etc. There is no perfect way of addressing the issue but rugby often strikes me as employing less flawed methods than football. The old chestnut of "we can't give a three match ban because a card or free kick was given" comes up quite a lot these days unfortunately.

As an aside I would also have far fewer reservations about the football rules concerning professional fouls if the automatic punishment was "sin bin" esque (as it is in rugby), with the possibility of upgrading the punishment to the equivalent of a straight red if subsequent rulings found that it was a particularly blatant denial of a scoring opportunity.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Quite often in these situations the rules are actually the main problem, and we see it again here:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/teams/m/man_utd/9409644.stm

So if the referee saw the incident but underestimated the severity, then under the current rules, the matter is closed, no matter how obvious it is that he warranted at least a booking and probably a straight red.

Basically this is because FIFA got upset when the league took action against the Manchester player Todd and told the league they shouldn't have taken the action that they did. So now they've gone the other way and won't take any action. However I remember the Chris Morgan incident which I pretty sure was after the city incident and they decided too look at it again and then not take any further action because the incident wasn't exceptional. The ref had booked Morgan. So the league position doesn't really add up and as ever doesn't seem consistent.

Youngsters do mimic the so called stars which is why you see them rolling about on the floor faking injuries even in kick abouts.

Although Rooney was blocked off he saw it coming and decided to use his elbow when he could have also used his strength to push the player aside. Or he could done a double somersault and gone down clutching his own face to get the player sent off.

Until the league gets it's house in order these incidents plus cheating will never go away.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Youngsters do mimic the so called stars which is why you see them rolling about on the floor faking injuries even in kick abouts.

Although Rooney was blocked off he saw it coming and decided to use his elbow when he could have also used his strength to push the player aside. Or he could done a double somersault and gone down clutching his own face to get the player sent off.

Until the league gets it's house in order these incidents plus cheating will never go away.

must agree with those comments Pit, the kids do mimic, the good and bad, sadly with Rooney it seems to be as often bad as brilliant as are his football talents. Why does he have to behave like a petulant 5 year old?

It might help if he had a more down to earth manager, can anyone imagine Sir Matt Busby putting up with his behavior?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

A lot of the most talented and popular superstars are like that sadly- I remember that Eric Cantonna had a very dark side, and in snooker we had Alex "Hurricane" Higgins and to a lesser extent Ronnie O'Sullivan.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Oh the irony, Fergie upset about a foul on Rooney in the game tonight at Chelsea, but then again Rooney shouldnt even have been playing in the first place.....serves sir Alex whinging bully right :lol:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Oh the irony, Fergie upset about a foul on Rooney in the game tonight at Chelsea, but then again Rooney shouldnt even have been playing in the first place.....serves sir Alex whinging bully right :lol:

It is such a shame that one of the world's greatest manager's is such a bad loser. A man of his experience should know how these things work by now. There he is tonight whinging about how Luiz should have been sent off, yet on Saturday he was defending Rooney!

And for all his whinging, when asked to comment on Vidic's sending off, he comes out with: "To be honest, I didn't see what happened as it was away in the corner. I'll have to look at that again." :doh:

At the end of the day, most people recognise that these decisions tend to even themselves out over time, and its not like Manchester United have never benefited is it?!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It is such a shame that one of the world's greatest manager's is such a bad loser. A man of his experience should know how these things work by now. There he is tonight whinging about how Luiz should have been sent off, yet on Saturday he was defending Rooney!

And for all his whinging, when asked to comment on Vidic's sending off, he comes out with: "To be honest, I didn't see what happened as it was away in the corner. I'll have to look at that again." :doh:

At the end of the day, most people recognise that these decisions tend to even themselves out over time, and its not like Manchester United have never benefited is it?!

To be honest I don;t agree with the adage that decision even themselves out over time, especially when it comes to bigger clubs.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It is such a shame that one of the world's greatest manager's is such a bad loser. A man of his experience should know how these things work by now. There he is tonight whinging about how Luiz should have been sent off, yet on Saturday he was defending Rooney!

And for all his whinging, when asked to comment on Vidic's sending off, he comes out with: "To be honest, I didn't see what happened as it was away in the corner. I'll have to look at that again." :doh:

Not only is Fergie a bad loser he seems to like blaming referees at every opportunity (unjustified more often than not)- perhaps with the idea of making them afraid of him?

To be honest I don;t agree with the adage that decision even themselves out over time, especially when it comes to bigger clubs.

I don't agree with it either- I think on average decisions tend to favour the big clubs and also the home sides, as pressure from home crowds, big teams and powerful players and managers can sway referees in marginal cases. I don't hold the referees entirely responsible for this- often players and managers warrant at least as much blame- but I think it does happen.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

He hasn't got away with it this time though!

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/teams/m/man_utd/9413347.stm

I don't think he really has a defence because he said he "feared the worst" when he found out that Martin Atkinson was refereeing the match and "you need a strong referee and we didn't get that". I sometimes stick up for managers who comment on a referee's performance, but personal attacks like the above are way out of order.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

He hasn't got away with it this time though!

http://news.bbc.co.u...utd/9413347.stm

I don't think he really has a defence because he said he "feared the worst" when he found out that Martin Atkinson was refereeing the match and "you need a strong referee and we didn't get that". I sometimes stick up for managers who comment on a referee's performance, but personal attacks like the above are way out of order.

Hurrah! It will be interesting to see the outcome of this, especially as he already has a suspended ban from last season still hanging over him!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

They won't do anything I wouldn't even bother holding you breath.

I think Ferguson and the Whinger Wenger are one the reasons why refs are getting worse. All managers get their players to cheat and pressure the refs and you go down all levels it's same story right down to the parents having a go a refs. Any sensible person wouldn't do the job.

The managers need to change the players attitude stop from them cheating and pressuring the refs and they may start making decisions more consistently. If a players got sent off for at effing every decision eventually it would stop.

Still there was one ref I really hated. Graham Poll that smirk he used to have when booking one of our players. His book claims he used to do it to show that people weren't getting to him.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't like it when managers get punished for stating the blindingly obvious (like pointing out and being rightly annoyed when a ref has got something very wrong), but Fergie's comments were totally out of order.

I agree with Pit about Graham Poll. Rob Styles was the worst though, a United fan through-and-through if ever I saw one. Thankfully neither of them disgrace our game anymore :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It looks like Clatterburgh or whatever his name is has fallen victim to the pressure form the Rooney incident. Sounds like he missed a pen realised it so made a pen up. Fulham were happen Blackburn weren't at all. Message to refs if you cock up a decision making up for it doesn't make you a better ref it makes you a worse one.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

In Rugby Union, there have a citing procedure, with an independent panel, where an offence can be dealt with more severely after the event even if dealt with at the time by the referee. This is a more satisfactory way of dealing with such incident.

Looks like the main argument in favour of prohibiting retrospective action is another of those "slippery slope" arguments:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/9415682.stm

But FA chairman David Bernstein maintained that England's governing body had taken the correct decision.

"If the referee states he has seen the incident the FA is not able to make decisions except in exceptional circumstances.

"If you open the door to 'halfway exceptional' the floodgates will open.

"I think that has more merit than meets the eye, the basis of the primacy of the referee staying in place - even though that will upset fans sometimes and quite understandably."

I might be misinterpreting it, but his argument reads to me like "you can't afford to allow any retrospective action to be taken because if you allow it under certain circumstances it will end up allowed under more and more circumstances until we're constantly taking retrospective action against everything- instead the referee's decision during the course of a match should always be final". The same argument is also routinely used against video evidence ("if you allow video evidence to be applied in certain cases the clubs will appeal for more and more cases until you have video evidence being used every five seconds").

My impression is that ideally rules should strike a balance between simplicity and fairness, and that it is thus about drawing a line in the right place. If the aim is merely to "make the rules fairer" then perhaps there may be a risk of such a slippery slope, but if we recognise that a balance has to be struck then it can easily be avoided- once we approach a point where the benefits of increased fairness are offset by too much complexity, we stop shifting the line, and thus no slippery slope arises. But perhaps the FA are just looking for excuses to maintain the status quo.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

  • Temperatures into heatwave territory and no rain

    Some parts of the UK could qualify for heatwave conditions later this week and it's not the usual suspects. No rain as water levels decline and how are the evening skies for LanuchAmerica viewing? Watch the video here

    Netweather forecasts
    Netweather forecasts
    Latest weather updates from Netweather

    High pressure in the driving seat until at least the end of May

    High pressure continues to dominate our weather until at least early next week, with most staying dry and fine. The warm conditions will spread north, and the highest temperatures will transfer to the west as the high moves east and eventually over Scandinavia. Read the full update here

    Netweather forecasts
    Netweather forecasts
    Latest weather updates from Netweather
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...