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The Middle East...where Are Events Taking Us?


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Posted
  • Location: Calgary, Canada (1230m asl)
  • Weather Preferences: Wind driven falling snow
  • Location: Calgary, Canada (1230m asl)

    Alq will turn up as it's there stated claim to take on the west where ever they can. What our media needs to do is show their wrong doings more.

    I completely agree with you on this The PIT. Al-Q will "turn up" BIG STYLE. I said this earlier in this thread or in a different thread about the regime changes across North Africa and into Arabia and I said that Al-Q would turn up and create havoc. I was patronised by those who always know better and who deny that we are falling into a huge war on many fronts.

    We've now got an open sore across N.Africa and Arabia into Iraq, Iran and Afghanistan. War on how many fronts????? Wake up people!!!

    The power vacuum will result in hardline Islamists gaining power in at least half of the affected countries. It's all very well saying that these revolutions will result in democracy but in many cases the opposite will happen. Watch this space. It won't be pretty.

    Bump...four weeks ago I said this and I stand by what I said.

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    There is no other description for what is happening other than war crime and genocide.   Israel is technically the occupying force on Gaza and as such is duty bound to protect civilians.   Complet

    The scenes in Gaza look like the aftermath of a nuclear bomb, utter devastation. The Israelis telling people to go back to their homes in northern Gaza as its "safe", what are they supposed to go back

    Reported on the BBC too... An air strike on an army camp has killed three soldiers, the Syrian government says, blaming the US-led coalition for the attack. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-

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    Posted
  • Location: Coatbridge, North Lanarkshire (this lockdown) Freuchie, Fife (normally)
  • Weather Preferences: cold and snowy in winter, a good mix of weather the rest of the time
  • Location: Coatbridge, North Lanarkshire (this lockdown) Freuchie, Fife (normally)

    Okay regime change in progress next stop alQ iniltration. So Bahrain next. No difference at all. Oh we would upset the Saudi's can't do that.

    As against that if the UN win will that give them confidence too take on other countries??

    I agree RE hypocrisy over Bahrain. We don't seem to bother when Wahhabi nutters in Saudi Arabia and Bahrain oppress their own people (crucifixion is still a method of capital punishment in Saudi and adultery and blasphemy are punishable by death), or even in Pakistan when people are killed simply on the grounds of religious belief, and that is shameful. It may also be the case that realistically we have to start by tackling the Saudi regime as it is the main exporter of Islamic terrorism in the world today. However, I still think that Libya is different from Iraq in many ways, but whether the end result is any better really does remain to be seen. I would also concur with those who think it is perhaps too late, and the momentum seems to be with Gaddafi at the moment, but as with all of us on here I do hope that the result is a middle east where ordinary people have control over their own governance and do not live in constant terror, however far off that ideal seems.

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    Posted
  • Location: South-West Norfolk
  • Location: South-West Norfolk

    John we moved on already from from no fly zone. France has hit ground targets which have nothing to do with air defences.

    I suggest you read the resolution, which allows the use of military force to protect civilians, if troops and armour threaten civilians, then it is completely proper to take them out. A no fly zone is just part of the package. They haven't come soon enough in my opinion, and they are by no means too late. Gadaffis supply lines are already stretched, and his forces around Benghazi are going to find themselves increasingly isolated, with little or no command and control and no supplies reaching them. Sooner they get rid of the lunatic the better, pity we didn't finish him off in 86.
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    Posted
  • Location: Sheffield South Yorkshire 160M Powering the Sheffield Shield
  • Weather Preferences: Any Extreme
  • Location: Sheffield South Yorkshire 160M Powering the Sheffield Shield

    I suggest you read the resolution, which allows the use of military force to protect civilians, if troops and armour threaten civilians, then it is completely proper to take them out. A no fly zone is just part of the package. They haven't come soon enough in my opinion, and they are by no means too late. Gadaffis supply lines are already stretched, and his forces around Benghazi are going to find themselves increasingly isolated, with little or no command and control and no supplies reaching them. Sooner they get rid of the lunatic the better, pity we didn't finish him off in 86.

    Mmmm if those civilians are carrying arms and shooting at soldiers then what??? If the rebels get stronger then start shelling pro Gaddafi civilians do we hit them as well??? If Bahrain keeps killing civilians are we going too start shelling them as well.

    Edited by The PIT
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    Posted
  • Location: swansea craig cefn parc 160 m asl
  • Location: swansea craig cefn parc 160 m asl

    Mmmm if those civilians are carrying arms and shooting at soldiers then what??? If the rebels get stronger then start shelling pro Gaddafi civilians do we hit them as well??? If Bahrain keeps killing civilians are we going too start shelling them as well.

    Good point pit as i said before all these countries are ruled by none elected countries,we soon have a no fly zone over SAUDIA.Whats the difference between colonel daffi and Saudi answer none(we supply armes to both). Edited by keithlucky
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    Posted
  • Location: South-West Norfolk
  • Location: South-West Norfolk

    Mmmm if those civilians are carrying arms and shooting at soldiers then what??? If the rebels get stronger then start shelling pro Gaddafi civilians do we hit them as well??? If Bahrain keeps killing civilians are we going too start shelling them as well.

    You could have listed many other tyrants, or atrocities going on around the world, and why haven't we gone in to those places. The difference being in this case the international community has been asked to, along with support from the arab league and gulf council, a very different situation to previous conflicts. Perhaps we should have just let him massacre these people. Of course at some point the UN action will have to cease, but I think that they are going to weaken his military very significantly (they will probably have defected in their thousands in the coming days anyway). I wouldn't be surprised if a stray Tomahawk found its way to Gaddafi, after all it's quite obvious that special forces are on the ground, highlighting targets. As to what happens with Bahrain, who knows, I spent 4 months there - the people are very friendly, it's very sad to see what is happening. But I don't think we are shelling anyone at the moment, it's Gaddafi doing the shelling! Edited by ribster
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    Posted
  • Location: Coatbridge, North Lanarkshire (this lockdown) Freuchie, Fife (normally)
  • Weather Preferences: cold and snowy in winter, a good mix of weather the rest of the time
  • Location: Coatbridge, North Lanarkshire (this lockdown) Freuchie, Fife (normally)

    Perhaps worth noting who the Arab League actually are http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/country_profiles/1550797.stm

    The point that the Libya conflict is distracting from protests in many member states such as Yemen and Bahrain is an interesting one, and we perhaps shouldn't forget this when looking at the conflict. It is also a distraction from the Israeli-Palestinian situation, and I wouldn't put it past Israel to use this as an excuse to further crack down on the Palestinian Territories. Anyway, it's all just hypothesising for the moment.

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    Posted
  • Location: Louth, Lincolnshire
  • Weather Preferences: Misty Autumn days and foggy nights
  • Location: Louth, Lincolnshire

    Mmmm if those civilians are carrying arms and shooting at soldiers then what??? If the rebels get stronger then start shelling pro Gaddafi civilians do we hit them as well??? If Bahrain keeps killing civilians are we going too start shelling them as well.

    Do we know that the French have hit anything other than anti-aircraft facilities? I know they said they had attacked military vehicles, but since we know that Libyan forces have been using anti-aircraft artillery against towns and buildings - perhaps it's these that they have destroyed, in which case, they're still within the confines of the military remit.

    As for the rest, I'm astonished there are people who still think that international politics isn't a den of hypocracy. It always has been.

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    Posted
  • Location: Bramley, Hampshire, 70m asl
  • Location: Bramley, Hampshire, 70m asl

    Perhaps worth noting who the Arab League actually are http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/country_profiles/1550797.stm

    The point that the Libya conflict is distracting from protests in many member states such as Yemen and Bahrain is an interesting one, and we perhaps shouldn't forget this when looking at the conflict. It is also a distraction from the Israeli-Palestinian situation, and I wouldn't put it past Israel to use this as an excuse to further crack down on the Palestinian Territories. Anyway, it's all just hypothesising for the moment.

    Yes the UN authorised action in Libya certainly will distract the world from what is happening elsewhere in the region. That of course does not make it wrong, but the next days and weeks could be particularly dangerous for the Middle East.

    Some will seize the moment to settle scores or subdue their own protestors. The Palestinian militants have fired their heaviest mortar barrage for years into Israel and no doubt there will be a heavy handed Israeli response. The crackdown on protestors elsewhere in the region eg Bahrain/Yemen/Syria, will I fear be increasingly uncompromising and violent with little fear of too much in the way of unwanted international attention.

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    Posted
  • Location: Sheffield South Yorkshire 160M Powering the Sheffield Shield
  • Weather Preferences: Any Extreme
  • Location: Sheffield South Yorkshire 160M Powering the Sheffield Shield

    Do we know that the French have hit anything other than anti-aircraft facilities? I know they said they had attacked military vehicles, but since we know that Libyan forces have been using anti-aircraft artillery against towns and buildings - perhaps it's these that they have destroyed, in which case, they're still within the confines of the military remit.

    As for the rest, I'm astonished there are people who still think that international politics isn't a den of hypocracy. It always has been.

    When was the last time tanks flew???

    What I'm trying too point out that is going to go beyond a simple no fly zone.

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    Posted
  • Location: Bramley, Hampshire, 70m asl
  • Location: Bramley, Hampshire, 70m asl

    When was the last time tanks flew???

    What I'm trying too point out that is going to go beyond a simple no fly zone.

    Resolution 1973 refers to "take all necessary measures", which has been interpreted by legal experts to allow for action against ground units threatening/attacking Libyan towns.

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    Posted
  • Location: Irlam
  • Location: Irlam

    When was the last time tanks flew???

    What I'm trying too point out that is going to go beyond a simple no fly zone.

    Obviously! Whats the point of a no-fly zone if you can still send in tanks to subdue the rebels. The tanks have to be taken as well if they are on the move. There is no point saying you are going to protect civilians by stopping the air force but still allowing the ground forces to attack.

    This is not really Cameron's Iraq, this has far more support across the political spectrum than Iraq ever did. It could turn out more like Blair's Kosovo. I think what else it has been exposed is what is the point of common EU foreign policy with a EU foreign minister ala Baroness Ashton? The EU rejected the no fly zone only for the UN to back it. A waste of time and money, the EU foreign minister is.

    Edited by Mr_Data
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    Posted
  • Location: Sheffield South Yorkshire 160M Powering the Sheffield Shield
  • Weather Preferences: Any Extreme
  • Location: Sheffield South Yorkshire 160M Powering the Sheffield Shield

    Arab league having second thoughts due to the magnitude of the military action. Like I said earlier they need to run it not Britain, France or the USA. Could be a huge blunder by Cameron getting us involved in this. Going to need a lot talking to keep the Arab league on board. Us and Britain not popular in the middle east so it's going to be a hard sell.

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    Posted
  • Location: Kingsteignton, Devon
  • Weather Preferences: Cold in winter, snow, frost but warm summers please
  • Location: Kingsteignton, Devon

    Arab league having second thoughts due to the magnitude of the military action. Like I said earlier they need to run it not Britain, France or the USA. Could be a huge blunder by Cameron getting us involved in this. Going to need a lot talking to keep the Arab league on board. Us and Britain not popular in the middle east so it's going to be a hard sell.

    He already spoke to most of the Arab rulers following his and Sarkozy's first trip to the EU, he gained their support which was announced and the UN then granted the resolution. Everything has been done by the book (unlike Bliar) and the AL are just getting twitchy because of what might follow. (UAE and Qatar have already moved jets into position)

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    Posted
  • Location: Bangor, Northern Ireland (20m asl, near coast)
  • Weather Preferences: Any weather will do.
  • Location: Bangor, Northern Ireland (20m asl, near coast)

    I've been hearing various stories about these uprisings in Africa and the middle east, including one that involves a US person paying a small group of demonstrators to demonstrate in key areas of each country. This was before the coalition stepped in.

    I believe all these events are pre-meditated by the USA and UK goverments to have a reason for sending forces and thus, retrieving more oil/gold/diamond refinerys for their own personal gain.

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    Posted
  • Location: Carryduff, County Down 420ft ASL
  • Location: Carryduff, County Down 420ft ASL

    Bloody hell Watcher, didn't have you down as a conspiracy theorist.

    I cannot believe that the thousands of people we have seen demonstrating in various countries are paid up members of the CIA.

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    Posted
  • Location: Coatbridge, North Lanarkshire (this lockdown) Freuchie, Fife (normally)
  • Weather Preferences: cold and snowy in winter, a good mix of weather the rest of the time
  • Location: Coatbridge, North Lanarkshire (this lockdown) Freuchie, Fife (normally)

    Bloody hell Watcher, didn't have you down as a conspiracy theorist.

    I cannot believe that the thousands of people we have seen demonstrating in various countries are paid up members of the CIA.

    Would it not also be a bit absurd if the US planted people to protest against largely US-installed/backed dictators?

    Mind you, I wouldn't necessarily put it past the US, given they used Bin-Laden to drive out the Soviets from Afghanistan. I think maybe they should just stop trying to arm and fund dodgy militias as a short term means to an end.

    Edited by LomondSnowstorm
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    Posted
  • Location: Bramley, Hampshire, 70m asl
  • Location: Bramley, Hampshire, 70m asl

    Meanwhile in Yemen General Ali Mohesen has announced that he is joining the peoples revolution.

    President Ali Abdullah Saleh's days look very numbered

    ...In this case, if the CIA were paying the General, they'll be wanting their money back!! The US don't want regime change in Yemen....and will be v concerned as this is the most likely of the protesting countries to become radicalised.

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    Or as the old Chinese curse goes, may you live in interesting times.

    It would be lovely to think that all these pro democracy groups are going to win out in the end and everything is all going to be lovey dovey but history tells us that where there is a policial vacuum the nasties creep in and take power leaving the people no better off. I sincerely hope that this does not happen this time and the whole region can start taking steps towards a fairer society - I won't say democracy as we know it yet. We will have to wait and see and perhaps the west should curb some of its meddling which tends to make matters worse.

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    Posted
  • Location: Dorset
  • Location: Dorset

    Big bomb gone off in Isreal, I would imagine that Hamas will be blamed,(whether they did it or not), the big question is will Bini go into Gaza ?, particularly if he things the world is distracted, (lets hope they don't as will be the worse possible thing for Isreal to do IMO ).

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    Posted
  • Location: Kingsteignton, Devon
  • Weather Preferences: Cold in winter, snow, frost but warm summers please
  • Location: Kingsteignton, Devon

    This on the back of a recent attack on Israel from Hamas rockets.

    As another note to answer the question of funding the war in Libya, it seems it is being met entirely by the Treasury reserves.

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    Posted
  • Location: Eastbourne, East Sussex (work in Mid Sussex)
  • Location: Eastbourne, East Sussex (work in Mid Sussex)

    As another note to answer the question of funding the war in Libya, it seems it is being met entirely by the Treasury reserves.

    Does that mean my (a taxpayer) money then?
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    Posted
  • Location: Kingsteignton, Devon
  • Weather Preferences: Cold in winter, snow, frost but warm summers please
  • Location: Kingsteignton, Devon

    Does that mean my (a taxpayer) money then?

    Yup, much like my money being paid to people who cba to get a job. Sucks huh

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    Posted
  • Location: Eastbourne, East Sussex (work in Mid Sussex)
  • Location: Eastbourne, East Sussex (work in Mid Sussex)

    Sucks huh

    Not quite as much as the price of fuel, but it does add to my current happy state - thanks!

    (shall we start our own revolution? http://forum.netweather.tv/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/ph34r.gif )

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    Posted
  • Location: Kingsteignton, Devon
  • Weather Preferences: Cold in winter, snow, frost but warm summers please
  • Location: Kingsteignton, Devon

    Not quite as much as the price of fuel, but it does add to my current happy state - thanks!

    (shall we start our own revolution? http://forum.netweather.tv/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/ph34r.gif )

    Thats been cut too! Nice Mr Osbourne.

    Revolution, great. Which country shall we pick? http://forum.netweather.tv/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/laugh.gif

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