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The Middle East...where Are Events Taking Us?


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Posted
  • Location: swansea craig cefn parc 160 m asl
  • Location: swansea craig cefn parc 160 m asl

    The Arab league have now called for a No Fly Zone to be imposed over Libya. Nato might now go ahead and implement it ....what it will achieve is questionable!!

    WE must not get involved in another Arab desert warfare when will we learn to stop interfering?What next invading Iran Syria OMAN UAE SAUDI once you start on giving help to one the next and the next will want freedom UN are spineless it will be left to us to send the TAs out there because thats all we can spare.
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    There is no other description for what is happening other than war crime and genocide.   Israel is technically the occupying force on Gaza and as such is duty bound to protect civilians.   Complet

    The scenes in Gaza look like the aftermath of a nuclear bomb, utter devastation. The Israelis telling people to go back to their homes in northern Gaza as its "safe", what are they supposed to go back

    Reported on the BBC too... An air strike on an army camp has killed three soldiers, the Syrian government says, blaming the US-led coalition for the attack. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-

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    Posted
  • Location: Stoke Gifford, Bristol
  • Location: Stoke Gifford, Bristol

    WE must not get involved in another Arab desert warfare when will we learn to stop interfering?What next invading Iran Syria OMAN UAE SAUDI once you start on giving help to one the next and the next will want freedom UN are spineless it will be left to us to send the TAs out there because thats all we can spare.

    Agreed - let 'em sort it out themselves! No Brit boys (and gals) coming home in bodybags for any of these countries thank you v much.

    As i said earlier in these threads a couple of weeks ago, where does it stop?! If we 'interfered' every time we disagreed with a regime in the world we'd be in conscription territory.

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    Posted
  • Location: Near Lauder, SE Scotland, 175 m asl
  • Location: Near Lauder, SE Scotland, 175 m asl

    WE must not get involved in another Arab desert warfare when will we learn to stop interfering?What next invading Iran Syria OMAN UAE SAUDI once you start on giving help to one the next and the next will want freedom UN are spineless it will be left to us to send the TAs out there because thats all we can spare.

    Rock and a hard place?

    We sit and watch it go to s**t or we risk it and still it goes to s**t and 'the west' (actually UN) is at fault. Or, it could work out if we support rather than go in all guns blazing like iraq? Stalemate is most likely short term I'd guess.

    I completely agree that it should require an Arab/African reponse. However, as Arab autocratic leaders are being taken out left right and centre, you can see why some from that neck of the woods are all talk but a little cool on the subject action-wise. Support from that region is going to be just 'logistics' for that and other reasons.

    If nothing is done, it's likely back to 'one brick short of a wall' Gaddafi and the 1980's for there. Big step back for progress in the region and would be a pity given the promise of what has happened in other countries.

    If the UN agrees, then it is democracy, and we have to see what that results in. Could work, may not.

    EDIT. Expect action soon.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-12781009

    Edited by scottish skier
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    Posted
  • Location: Stoke Gifford, Bristol
  • Location: Stoke Gifford, Bristol

    Rock and a hard place?

    We sit and watch it go to s**t or we risk it and still it goes to s**t and 'the west' (actually UN) is at fault. Or, it could work out if we support rather than go in all guns blazing like iraq? Stalemate is most likely short term I'd guess.

    I completely agree that it should require an Arab/African reponse. However, as Arab autocratic leaders are being taken out left right and centre, you can see why some from that neck of the woods are all talk but a little cool on the subject action-wise. Support from that region is going to be just 'logistics' for that and other reasons.

    If nothing is done, it's likely back to 'one brick short of a wall' Gaddafi and the 1980's for there. Big step back for progress in the region and would be a pity given the promise of what has happened in other countries.

    If the UN agrees, then it is democracy, and we have to see what that results in. Could work, may not.

    Trouble is The West is damned if it does and damned if it does not - esp. the US - to be quite frank it gets right on my nerves how certain factions within the UK (usually the Guardian-types) have a go at our rulers and the US when action to these events is slow but then when we (or the US) do get involved we're then slated for interfering!

    Let the African/Arab countries sort it out. The whole continent(s) a basket case anyway when it comes to democracy.

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    Posted
  • Location: Bratislava (240m)
  • Location: Bratislava (240m)

    I can't believe the resolution for a no-fly zone has been passed by the Security Council. I was sure China or Russia would veto it, but they merely abstained.

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    Posted
  • Location: Redbourn,Herts AL3. 122M ASL
  • Weather Preferences: Feb 2018 Easterly
  • Location: Redbourn,Herts AL3. 122M ASL

    Well here we go again, Another BLOODY mess we are getting involved in. Why the hell cant we just say NO, More expense for the British people to pick up. All for oil as GADAFI supplies Europe,Still another fuel cost rise i suppose.

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    Posted
  • Location: Sheffield South Yorkshire 160M Powering the Sheffield Shield
  • Weather Preferences: Any Extreme
  • Location: Sheffield South Yorkshire 160M Powering the Sheffield Shield

    Great we can't afford this I thought we needed cuts. So we going to cut services to needy people while getting involved in another war that has nothing to do with us. The arabs should sort this out not us.

    Again this will be seen as a crusade against Muslim countries and this will result in more anti west feelings within the Muslim community here.

    Well Blair mk2 will be trying to get his name marked down in history and he's only been in charge for two minutes.

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    Posted
  • Location: Bramley, Hampshire, 70m asl
  • Location: Bramley, Hampshire, 70m asl

    Great we can't afford this I thought we needed cuts. So we going to cut services to needy people while getting involved in another war that has nothing to do with us. The arabs should sort this out not us.

    Again this will be seen as a crusade against Muslim countries and this will result in more anti west feelings within the Muslim community here.

    Well Blair mk2 will be trying to get his name marked down in history and he's only been in charge for two minutes.

    Military action in a Muslim country is always going to be difficult. Surely though the key thing here is that this action was requested by the Arab League (pretty unprecedented in itself).

    Muslim countries such as the UAE, Qatar and Jordan have offered to participate ....along with rumblings that Saudi Arabia and Egypt may help. Meaningful involvement from some or all of these countries is vital.

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    Posted
  • Location: Sheffield South Yorkshire 160M Powering the Sheffield Shield
  • Weather Preferences: Any Extreme
  • Location: Sheffield South Yorkshire 160M Powering the Sheffield Shield

    Military action in a Muslim country is always going to be difficult. Surely though the key thing here is that this action was requested by the Arab League (pretty unprecedented in itself).

    Muslim countries such as the UAE, Qatar and Jordan have offered to participate ....along with rumblings that Saudi Arabia and Egypt may help. Meaningful involvement from some or all of these countries is vital.

    They should be put in charge though. I suspect this will end up being Camerons Iraq though plue we can't afford the extra costs involved in this.

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    Posted
  • Location: Dorset
  • Location: Dorset

    How on earth can this be Camerons Iraq ?

    We are not going to invade the country, in effect it will be glorified target practice with anti tank bombs being dropped taking out the tanks etc that are killing civilians.

    The costs of this will be no more than a large scale exercise(which we do and will continue to do).

    The only added cost will be on missiles and bombs used and fuel.

    Re-fueling looks to be done by largely arab countries and bases and the cost of the bases taken up by the Spanish and Egpytians.

    If no action is taken it will simply show the arab world that if the general population rises up then the dictators can kill them and suffer no harm.

    At the end of the day we(the last labour government) have been appeasing Libya doing business deals with them and selling them crowd control equipment(The french have been providing the aircraft). We have a responsibility and the UN has a responsibility. If we don't want to get involved in these kinds of things then we have to give up our security council seat as this is the only way we can justify having it.

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    Posted
  • Location: Dorset
  • Location: Dorset

    And already it looks to have been positive as Libya declares an immediate halt to it's attacks on the rebels.

    Stand up to a bully and generally you win.

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    Posted
  • Location: Crowborough, East Sussex 180mASL
  • Location: Crowborough, East Sussex 180mASL

    Camerons speech just sounds like rhetoroc piled on rhetoric. Kuwait was the excuse Bush needed to invade Iraq, 911 the excuse to invade Afghanistan. I can't help but think this is just another excuse with the added advantage of deflecting the intense public displeasure at the state of the British economy, economic austerity measures and the imminent unleashing of the 2011/12 budget. Shoot first and ask questions later. Saudi and Egypt alone have the ability to enforce a no-fly zone should they desire. The final outcome of this action cannot possibly be known, there is no strategy or long term plan. Or is there? ' We come in peace. Shoot to kill. 'Liberating Libya' will be the leverage the West needs to convince the oil rich Arab world that Iran is the next big threat and that the nuclear intentions of its leadership cannot possibly be justified now that the extent of Fukushima will prove international boundaries are no defence against fallout. Then we can get back to re-supplying Libya with modern weapons to replace the ageing Russian Soviet era kit.

    ffO

    Edited by full_frontal_occlusion
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    Posted
  • Location: Sheffield South Yorkshire 160M Powering the Sheffield Shield
  • Weather Preferences: Any Extreme
  • Location: Sheffield South Yorkshire 160M Powering the Sheffield Shield

    And already it looks to have been positive as Libya declares an immediate halt to it's attacks on the rebels.

    Stand up to a bully and generally you win.

    Or you end up with a bloody nose as did the yanks in Vietnam. Standing up to a bully like Saddam produced a wonderful stable Iraq didn't it. Standing up to the Taliban a wonderfully stable Afghanistan.

    what happens when the rebels attack Gadaffi's forces and they fire back? Air strikes??

    The only way I would be happy with this if the arab league ran it all.

    Then there's Bahrain who doing the same thing so when is that going before the UN??

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    Posted
  • Location: Irlam
  • Location: Irlam

    Kuwait was the excuse Bush needed to invade Iraq,

    I thought it was WMDs?

    I think we're mixing the two Gulf Wars up here.

    I notice Obama has got off his backside at last over this. Not many people have come out of this affair too well but I would have thought Obama would have shown a little more leadership than silently sat behind the desk in the Oval Office.

    Maybe Obama is another Jimmy Carter as I feared at the time of the election run-up.

    Edited by Mr_Data
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    Posted
  • Location: Calgary, Canada (1230m asl)
  • Weather Preferences: Wind driven falling snow
  • Location: Calgary, Canada (1230m asl)

    Maybe Obama is another Jimmy Carter as I feared at the time of the election run-up.

    Or you could look at it this way Mr Data:

    More than a few people pointed out when Obama was elected that the USA had just had a Blair moment. I think time will judge Obama similar to Blair. Promised so much and completely and utterly failed to deliver.

    Some kind of third way has just proved itself to be a shhhite way.

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    Posted
  • Location: Sheffield South Yorkshire 160M Powering the Sheffield Shield
  • Weather Preferences: Any Extreme
  • Location: Sheffield South Yorkshire 160M Powering the Sheffield Shield

    Gadaffi's forces continue fighting and are in the process of land grab. After that Gadaffi can just sit there and sit us out forcing military action on the ground.

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    Posted
  • Location: Bramley, Hampshire, 70m asl
  • Location: Bramley, Hampshire, 70m asl

    Gadaffi's forces continue fighting and are in the process of land grab. After that Gadaffi can just sit there and sit us out forcing military action on the ground.

    Benghazi under attack.....now

    http://www.livestream.com/libya17feb

    Meanwhile .....no planes but plenty of coffee and croissants in Paris!

    http://english.aljazeera.net/news/africa/2011/03/201131934914112208.html

    Edited by Kiwi
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    Posted
  • Location: Sheffield South Yorkshire 160M Powering the Sheffield Shield
  • Weather Preferences: Any Extreme
  • Location: Sheffield South Yorkshire 160M Powering the Sheffield Shield

    Yes the city has been entered by Gaddafi's tanks so it looks like next step will have to be ground troops sent in. Obama hinting at such action already. Cameron's Iraq gets closer.

    This bit is interesting

    a letter to US president Barack Obama, Gaddafi again blamed Libya's violence on Al Qaeda, asking "what would you do if you found them controlling American cities with the power of weapons? What would you do, so I can follow your example."

    Al Jazeera's Bays said there was no Al Qaeda presence in Benghazi and other opposition towns. "[Ordinary] men women and children in the towns and cities of eastern Libya are the ones fighting," he said.

    There maybe no ALQ at the moment but if the troops go in there soon will be.

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    Posted
  • Location: Sheffield South Yorkshire 160M Powering the Sheffield Shield
  • Weather Preferences: Any Extreme
  • Location: Sheffield South Yorkshire 160M Powering the Sheffield Shield

    Okay regime change in progress next stop alQ iniltration. So Bahrain next. No difference at all. Oh we would upset the Saudi's can't do that.

    As against that if the UN win will that give them confidence too take on other countries??

    Edited by The PIT
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    Posted
  • Location: Kingsteignton, Devon
  • Weather Preferences: Cold in winter, snow, frost but warm summers please
  • Location: Kingsteignton, Devon

    Okay regime change in progress next stop alQ iniltration. So Bahrain next. No difference at all. Oh we would upset the Saudi's can't do that.

    As against that if the UN win will that give them confidence too take on other countries??

    Is your world always so negative?

    I think we are seeing good progress with parts of the Arab world taking part in the action, which is a good thing, that coupled with French, British, Canadian and Italian jets protecting civilians. It remains to be seen if there will be any regime change from it, I doubt it can be done from the air alone.

    Edited by Dartmoor_Matt
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    Posted
  • Location: Sheffield South Yorkshire 160M Powering the Sheffield Shield
  • Weather Preferences: Any Extreme
  • Location: Sheffield South Yorkshire 160M Powering the Sheffield Shield

    Is your world always so negative?

    I think we are seeing good progress with parts of the Arab world taking part in the action, which is a good thing, that coupled with French, British, Canadian and Italian jets protecting civilians. It remains to be seen if there will be any regime change from it, I doubt it can be done from the air alone.

    You deliberately missed my last sentence. Will this give confidence to the UN too take on other countries?

    Also missed my comments about Bahrain.

    Alq will turn up as it's there stated claim to take on the west where ever they can. What our media needs to do is show their wrong doings more.

    If you going to discuss my post please discuss all of it.

    Edited by The PIT
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    Posted
  • Location: just south of Doncaster, Sth Yorks
  • Location: just south of Doncaster, Sth Yorks

    The action by the UN is 7-10 days too late. Just how much can be got from this late intervention is not easy to see.

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    Posted
  • Location: Sheffield South Yorkshire 160M Powering the Sheffield Shield
  • Weather Preferences: Any Extreme
  • Location: Sheffield South Yorkshire 160M Powering the Sheffield Shield

    The action by the UN is 7-10 days too late. Just how much can be got from this late intervention is not easy to see.

    John we moved on already from from no fly zone. France has hit ground targets which have nothing to do with air defences.

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    Posted
  • Location: just south of Doncaster, Sth Yorks
  • Location: just south of Doncaster, Sth Yorks

    I am aware Pit of the changes and I did not refer to a no fly zone. I simply stated that the UN action, in my view, is 7-10 days too late. Aircraft hitting ground targets was part of what the finally agreed UN resolution in the Security Council intended. The clear intent was to stop Gadaffi forces taking any further territory. The safeguarding of civilian lives, again in my view, had become secondary by then with those countries wanting the resolution implemented by that time.

    Edited by johnholmes
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    Posted
  • Location: Sheffield South Yorkshire 160M Powering the Sheffield Shield
  • Weather Preferences: Any Extreme
  • Location: Sheffield South Yorkshire 160M Powering the Sheffield Shield

    Well if we stick to UN ruling the miltary action should stop shortly. It'll be interesting too see if it does.

    Like I said earlier if all goes well it may mark a change in UN action in the future. For the best.

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