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What the western media needs to do to now is highlight the cruelty of ISIS this should put young potential jihadists off hopefully. We are also got to be very careful over the ones that come back after fighting there.

Expect a mass exodus of Shia's in the next few days from Baghdad and a massacre of those who get trapped or how are left behind.

Unlikely, they are brainwashed into thinking they go straight to Paradise with 72 virgins at their disposal if they get killed in battle - Not only that they do it all in the name of Allah, the only thing is that I expect Allah ain't too pleased about their antics. The people who are orchestrating this are absolutely evil and there is little doubt that some will return and try to cause some mayhem.

 

The sooner we get a worldwide education system where everybody is taught to think critically, the better it will be but the sun will grow into a red giant before then.

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There is no other description for what is happening other than war crime and genocide.   Israel is technically the occupying force on Gaza and as such is duty bound to protect civilians.   Complet

The scenes in Gaza look like the aftermath of a nuclear bomb, utter devastation. The Israelis telling people to go back to their homes in northern Gaza as its "safe", what are they supposed to go back

Reported on the BBC too... An air strike on an army camp has killed three soldiers, the Syrian government says, blaming the US-led coalition for the attack. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-

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  • Location: Napton on the Hill Warwickshire 500ft
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  • Location: Napton on the Hill Warwickshire 500ft

     

    The sooner we get a worldwide education system where everybody is taught to think critically, the better it will be but the sun will grow into a red giant before then.

     

    I don't think a western ideology will go down well out there at the moment.

     

    Anyway Interesting few days ahead Iran and USA as mates who would have thought it.

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  • Location: Sheffield South Yorkshire 160M Powering the Sheffield Shield
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  • Location: Sheffield South Yorkshire 160M Powering the Sheffield Shield

    Plenty of money now then ISIS to buy more arms plus the ones they've got from running Iraq soldiers.

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    I don't think a western ideology will go down well out there at the moment.

     

    Anyway Interesting few days ahead Iran and USA as mates who would have thought it.

    That is the point I was trying to make - in the Middle Ages, our Christian belief really did control people's lives to the extent that people were burnt at the stake for being heretic and 'holy' wars were fought, for example, the Albigensian Wars in Southern France which commenced in July 1209 with the slaughter of approx. 20,000 people at Beziers and in reply to the question from a soldier, How will we know the heretics from the Christians?' the army commander said, 'Kill them all, God will know his own.'

     

    The powers of the war lords thrives to quite some extent on the ignorance of the people.

     

    Thankfully, we are past that stage now for the majority of us and the enlightenment of scientific knowledge has replaced religious superstition and dogma to develop more secular communities.

     

    Just as we were in the Middle Ages, it seems to me that the more extreme Moslem states, still are today. There is not the same universal education as we have in the west today and where there is a form of education it appears to be very much orientated towards a type of religion which is being used for control of the populations, particularly by the Taliban who turn sports stadiums into arenas for public executions and floggings and where a woman in Sudan was sentenced to death, simply because she wished to be Christian as opposed to Moslem.

     

    It is evident to me that the people of power are using religion as a means of controlling their populations in areas where large parts of them accept it because they do not know any better, or are put in fear. It does not really have very much at all to do with God or Allah but a lot to do with the personal ambitions some of the leaders.

     

    It took us in the West centuries to climb out of the abyss of what was generally ignorance and superstition amongst the common folk, though it has not altogether lessened conflict in war, because, particularly in the 20th century, we found other excuses to kill our fellow men.

     

    As with us, it will take time for these other communities to evolve but this should be done through allowing them to see for themselves and letting ideas of democracy and freedom to grow organically rather than having it imposed from the outside because in their eyes it would be replacing one system of tyranny with another. In general people hate change, especially when it is done relatively quickly so they need time to adjust.

     

    With time, more knowledge is becoming available worldwide through modern communication systems, so I expect that by degrees the powers of the war lords will be lessened - they are no doubt aware of this and use the education systems, or lack of them to the extent that it is forbidden to women, I suspect because it would be realised that they would have the opportunity to educate their children in turn.

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  • Location: Sheffield South Yorkshire 160M Powering the Sheffield Shield
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    I think this the end for Iraq as more grounds take up arms we will have more war lords rise amongst the Shia which will result in driving Sunnis to ISIS and other groups.

    As for education well as the Middle east destabilizes further expect more middle age type countries to gain hold. The long term aim will be to transport this extremism to western societies first to destabilize them and then finally take over. I don't think they'll do as they'll spend to much time fighting amongst themselves but the world is certainly heading towards a very unsettled unstable period which could last a very long time.

    Other factors pushing towards this are poverty famines and a much weaker western and former Russian powers.

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    I think this the end for Iraq as more grounds take up arms we will have more war lords rise amongst the Shia which will result in driving Sunnis to ISIS and other groups.

    As for education well as the Middle east destabilizes further expect more middle age type countries to gain hold. The long term aim will be to transport this extremism to western societies first to destabilize them and then finally take over. I don't think they'll do as they'll spend to much time fighting amongst themselves but the world is certainly heading towards a very unsettled unstable period which could last a very long time.

    Other factors pushing towards this are poverty famines and a much weaker western and former Russian powers.

    As far as I am aware only one man was able to unite the two factions of Islam for a common purpose and that was Saladin, which was a long time ago. I can't see that they will ever achieve world domination, they spend too much time and effort fighting amongst themselves and to gain ascendancy they will rely on mainly uneducated, or poorly educated people who they will be able to hoodwink into doing their bidding.

     

    That is not to say they will not continue to try and in doing so cause a lot of mayhem on the way but eventually as various peoples do get more educated their power will wane.

     

    Let's face it Malala Yousafzai certainly left them with egg on their face and it just takes a few people with the courage to stand up to them and take the lead for others to follow.

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    Goodness me, what a mess. What exactly is the Western agenda in the Middle East?

     

    They said Iraq must be invaded because of Saddam's WMDs which did not exist. Worse, the case for their existence was found to be exaggerated, forged or plain made up. Then it was to "liberate the Iraqi people". Never before in history has anyone invaded a country thousands of miles away, which they have no connection with, to "liberate" their people from a regime that wasn't even remotely the most oppressive in the world.

     

    So we've already 'intervened' once in the Middle East for reasons that are confirmed lies.

     

    Now the "liberating the people" line is wheeled out again as an excuse to intervene in Libya, Syria, Egypt. And apparently we're fighting a "war on terror" yet our politicians and intelligence agency geniuses never foresaw that removing the stable, secular regimes of Saddam, Gaddafi, Assad would leave a power vacuum that would be filled by the hordes of barbaric Islamists that have been waiting for such an opportunity for decades?

     

    Are those in power just stupid or is there is there some sinister agenda going on? It's one of the two. Considering the confirmed lies and corruption amongst our leaders I'm thinking the later.

    What agenda that is though I don't really know...

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  • Location: Camborne
  • Location: Camborne

    Why do people ask what the Western agenda is and not the include the Eastern agenda? I mean the Soviets and Russia have done as much meddling, if not more, as the Western powers.

     

     

    Never before in history has anyone invaded a country thousands of miles away, which they have no connection with, to "liberate" their people from a regime that wasn't even remotely the most oppressive in the world.

     

    I assume that is an attempt at irony.

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  • Location: Sheffield South Yorkshire 160M Powering the Sheffield Shield
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  • Location: Sheffield South Yorkshire 160M Powering the Sheffield Shield

    Why do people ask what the Western agenda is and not the include the Eastern agenda? I mean the Soviets and Russia have done as much meddling, if not more, as the Western powers.

    In the time of the cold war meddling was about equal then the collapse of the Soviet Union left all the meddling to the US. Russia is coming back into the frame but isn't as strong as it used to be come to that neither is the US although it's stronger than Russia. Sadly it's starting all over again which isn't good.

     

    It's pity that those the Neo Conservatives,  Bush and Blair have never been brought to court over war crimes. I guess that's because they won the war albeit briefly.

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  • Location: Napton on the Hill Warwickshire 500ft
  • Weather Preferences: Snow and heatwave
  • Location: Napton on the Hill Warwickshire 500ft

     

     

    That is not to say they will not continue to try and in doing so cause a lot of mayhem on the way but eventually as various peoples do get more educated their power will wane.

     

     

     

    You make excellent points I am just trying to see in the short term (under 20 years) how we start.

     

    How do you start when wedding parties are regarded as 'collateral damage' ?

     

    http://themoderatevoice.com/189654/drone-strike-takes-out-wedding-party/

     

    An estimated 286 to 890 civilians have been killed, including 168 to 197 children bu USA drone strikes in Pakistan

     

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drone_attacks_in_Pakistan

     

    Not sure they are going to listen

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    You make excellent points I am just trying to see in the short term (under 20 years) how we start.

     

    How do you start when wedding parties are regarded as 'collateral damage' ?

     

    http://themoderatevoice.com/189654/drone-strike-takes-out-wedding-party/

     

    An estimated 286 to 890 civilians have been killed, including 168 to 197 children bu USA drone strikes in Pakistan

     

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drone_attacks_in_Pakistan

     

    Not sure they are going to listen

    Short term - virtually no chance - this will be a process which will take generations rather than decades - just think of the evolution of western society and we still haven't got it right.

     

    No interference by the west = no collateral damage by the west - the whole point is that the people should be responsible for their own future - we can give advice WHEN ASKED FOR - we can also give humanitarian aid when asked for but as for getting mired into their politics, putting boots on the ground, or sending over air strikes, it should be taboo - the only exception I would apply is to use force only when it is used as a means of genuine self defence and without any weapons of mass deception being used to fool ourselves and the rest of the world - haven't we learned enough by now - the western interference just does not work - it just stores up resentment and creates more problems than there were in the first place - they have their own cultures which they should be allowed to develop in their own ways.

     

    Perhaps if we maintained stance of non interference, we may be in a position, at sometime in the distant future, gain the moral high ground.

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  • Location: Sheffield South Yorkshire 160M Powering the Sheffield Shield
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  • Location: Sheffield South Yorkshire 160M Powering the Sheffield Shield

    You make excellent points I am just trying to see in the short term (under 20 years) how we start.

     

    How do you start when wedding parties are regarded as 'collateral damage' ?

     

    http://themoderatevoice.com/189654/drone-strike-takes-out-wedding-party/

     

    An estimated 286 to 890 civilians have been killed, including 168 to 197 children bu USA drone strikes in Pakistan

     

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drone_attacks_in_Pakistan

     

    Not sure they are going to listen

    Drone strikes are one hell of a recruitment drive for the Taliban and should be stopped.

    Interesting that is very hard to find stats about how many civilians the Taliban have killed but it will be far more than any drone strike. However two wrongs don't make a right.

    Mike is right this is the best way forward.

    We need a prime directive.

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  • Location: Powys Mid Wales borders.
  • Location: Powys Mid Wales borders.

     

    Whatever the regional outcome may be, the fact is the West has re-invaded Iraq, with a force as brutal, if not worse than the "shock and awe" doctrine of 2003. Iraq faces another difficult occupation if it cannot summon a response from within, and among its allies abroad, to counter and crush this threat with utmost expediency.

    http://landdestroyer.blogspot.com.au/2014/06/americas-covert-re-invasion-of-iraq.html#more 

    God speaks to him, or so he thinks.....

    Tony bliar.

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  • Location: Camborne
  • Location: Camborne

    I can't see Iran standing aside and letting that happen

     

    Iran has taken command of Iraq’s crumbling armed forces to help organise the fightback against hardline militants who have seized large swathes of the country.

     

    Major-General Qassem Suleimani, the leader of Iran’s elite Quds force, is now running operations, a top Iraqi official revealed yesterday.

    Suleimani, who travelled to Baghdad last week with 67 of his top advisers, “is in charge of arming, deploying forces, weaponry and planning the battlesâ€, the source said. “He also brought light and medium weapons, rockets, heavy machineguns and lots of ammunition.â€

     

    News of Iran’s role came as its president, Hassan Rouhani, held out the prospect of an alliance with America, Tehran’s old enemy, to fight Isis — the Islamic State in Iraq and al-Sham. Asked if Iran would co-operate with Washington over Iraq, Rouhani said: “Any time the Americans start to take action against terrorist groups, we can consider that.â€

     

    The Iranian leader vowed that he was ready to assist the Iraqi government of Nouri Al-Maliki, a fellow Shi’ite, in his battle against the Sunni insurgents. “We are ready to help within international law,†Rouhani said.

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  • Location: Napton on the Hill Warwickshire 500ft
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  • Location: Napton on the Hill Warwickshire 500ft

    Iran has taken command of Iraq’s crumbling armed forces to help organise the fightback against hardline militants who have seized large swathes of the country.

     

    Major-General Qassem Suleimani, the leader of Iran’s elite Quds force, is now running operations, a top Iraqi official revealed yesterday.

    Suleimani, who travelled to Baghdad last week with 67 of his top advisers, “is in charge of arming, deploying forces, weaponry and planning the battlesâ€, the source said. “He also brought light and medium weapons, rockets, heavy machineguns and lots of ammunition.â€

     

    News of Iran’s role came as its president, Hassan Rouhani, held out the prospect of an alliance with America, Tehran’s old enemy, to fight Isis — the Islamic State in Iraq and al-Sham. Asked if Iran would co-operate with Washington over Iraq, Rouhani said: “Any time the Americans start to take action against terrorist groups, we can consider that.â€

     

    The Iranian leader vowed that he was ready to assist the Iraqi government of Nouri Al-Maliki, a fellow Shi’ite, in his battle against the Sunni insurgents. “We are ready to help within international law,†Rouhani said.

     

    I find it better if you quote the source or provide the link otherwise people might think you wrote that yourself  :rolleyes:  

     

    http://www.thesundaytimes.co.uk/sto/news/world_news/Middle_East/article1422922.ece

     

    BBC live updates are good for people who want to keep up to date

     

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-27831508

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  • Location: Springfield, Chelmsford, Essex 30Mtr ASL
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  • Location: Springfield, Chelmsford, Essex 30Mtr ASL

    Good morning everyone,

     

    I read reports in the media about what the perma- tanned ex pm had to say about Iraq and the rest of the Middle East with a degree of disbelief.

     

    If he and Bush senior had left Iraq to its own devices I do not believe that there would have been an Arab Spring, which instead of liberating the countries from a dictatorship has resulted in terrorists plying their trade throughout the region. Their actions in Iraq and Afghanistan have provided oxygen for rebellion in other countries and has been a Godsend to the militants.

     

    I am very concerned as to the future as the current government have only made the situation worse by their actions thereby encouraging insurgency in Syria and the collapse of society in Libya. My fear, as has been stated by others far more knowledgeable on the situation in the region, is that a militant nation will be established comprising all or part of the following countries:- Syria, Iraq and Jordan. This will result in a country that Israel will feel extremely uncomfortable with on it's borders and could result in a nuclear conflict.

     

    Now Mr Blair wants us to become militarily involved in the region. What possible good would that achieve? Have we not caused enough suffering in the region already as well as the loss of life of our own servicemen?

     

    Without our intervention what are the available options to contain the current extremely explosive situation? the world is on the brink of a very serious escalation of the situation.

     

    Kind Regards

     

    Dave

    Edited by claret047
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    Without our intervention what are the available options to contain the current extremely explosive situation? the world is on the brink of a very serious escalation of the situation.

     

    Kind Regards

     

    Dave

     

    Churchill warned of a "gathering storm" of Nazism in the 1930s and was ignored and mocked as a soothsayer and warmonger until the threat he predicted came to pass. Perhaps we're facing the same now in Islamic extremism.

     

    These people have made it quite clear that they intend to take over the world and destroy us and that they will not stop until they do so or until they themselves are destroyed. Either they destroy us or we destroy them, it's one of the two surely? This ideology is not just in the Middle East anymore but now spreading in the UK, Europe and beyond.

     

    These people are a far greater threat to peace and civilisation than Saddam, Assad, Gaddafi ever were and who's side have our governments taken? Unbelievable.

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  • Location: swansea craig cefn parc 160 m asl
  • Location: swansea craig cefn parc 160 m asl

    Here we go again the oil companies starting to jump up and down shouting HORRAH as Iraq crisis deepens  remember when prices went up after the Iraq war and never came back down.Out comes the pedal bike  again only 10 miles to work.

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  • Location: Back in Edmonton Alberta(via Chelmsford, Exeter & Calgary)
  • Location: Back in Edmonton Alberta(via Chelmsford, Exeter & Calgary)

    Churchill warned of a "gathering storm" of Nazism in the 1930s and was ignored and mocked as a soothsayer and warmonger until the threat he predicted came to pass. Perhaps we're facing the same now in Islamic extremism.

     

    These people have made it quite clear that they intend to take over the world and destroy us and that they will not stop until they do so or until they themselves are destroyed. Either they destroy us or we destroy them, it's one of the two surely? This ideology is not just in the Middle East anymore but now spreading in the UK, Europe and beyond.

     

    These people are a far greater threat to peace and civilisation than Saddam, Assad, Gaddafi ever were and who's side have our governments taken? Unbelievable.

    Trouble is back then Germany was a global superpower very organised with the capacity to destroy us..the extremist are fractious band of different extremist groups loosely organised with no real focus except the destruction of western society who do not have the capacity or the know how at this point to really pose a real threat..they are more likely to fight amongst themselves.

    Edited by cheeky_monkey
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    Good morning everyone, I read reports in the media about what the perma- tanned ex pm had to say about Iraq and the rest of the Middle East with a degree of disbelief. If he and Bush senior had left Iraq to its own devices I do not believe that there would have been an Arab Spring, which instead of liberating the countries from a dictatorship has resulted in terrorists plying their trade throughout the region. Their actions in Iraq and Afghanistan have provided oxygen for rebellion in other countries and has been a Godsend to the militants. I am very concerned as to the future as the current government have only made the situation worse by their actions thereby encouraging insurgency in Syria and the collapse of society in Libya. My fear, as has been stated by others far more knowledgeable on the situation in the region, is that a militant nation will be established comprising all or part of the following countries:- Syria, Iraq and Jordan. This will result in a country that Israel will feel extremely uncomfortable with on it's borders and could result in a nuclear conflict. Now Mr Blair wants us to become militarily involved in the region. What possible good would that achieve? Have we not caused enough suffering in the region already as well as the loss of life of our own servicemen? Without our intervention what are the available options to contain the current extremely explosive situation? the world is on the brink of a very serious escalation of the situation. Kind Regards Dave

    The problem with Blair is that his ego is so massive he can never admit he was wrong - he would like nothing better than for us to get militarily involved again and would view this as a vindication of his original position - he is a dangerous man better suited to be locked up and confined to Broadmoor.
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  • Location: Leeds/Bradford border, 185 metres above sea level, around 600 feet
  • Location: Leeds/Bradford border, 185 metres above sea level, around 600 feet

    Wow, never expected that level of involvement from Iran.

     

    Brilliant play from them though. Despite the fact that they've taken very little steps away from their nuclear agenda and are still an extreme theocracy the Iranian leader now gets to paint himself as a moderate (though he's not) which means that the next time the US threaten them they can bring this up and get a few minor countries on side who believe their friendly agenda.

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