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The Middle East...where Are Events Taking Us?


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Posted
  • Location: Louth, Lincolnshire
  • Weather Preferences: Misty Autumn days and foggy nights
  • Location: Louth, Lincolnshire

    Just watching the news and a commentator made the very valid point that attacking Syrias chemical plants would simply unleash a lot of those chemicals into the surrounding areas, thereby endangering the local population. The alternative is to attack government and military locations, but of course they are now forewarned and will base themselves well away from any danger.

     

    The only possible outcome I can see from all this is that innocent civilians will once again become the victims. There is no such thing as friendly fire.

     

    It's a good point.  Most modern chemical weapons are binary - produced as two (or more) seperate chemicals which only become lethally toxic when mixed (usually in the bomb or cannister right before being deployed) - if the production is on that basis, then the risks of environmental contamination is reduced, but we don't know that's how they are made and stored in Syria. 

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    There is no other description for what is happening other than war crime and genocide.   Israel is technically the occupying force on Gaza and as such is duty bound to protect civilians.   Complet

    The scenes in Gaza look like the aftermath of a nuclear bomb, utter devastation. The Israelis telling people to go back to their homes in northern Gaza as its "safe", what are they supposed to go back

    Reported on the BBC too... An air strike on an army camp has killed three soldiers, the Syrian government says, blaming the US-led coalition for the attack. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-

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    Posted
  • Location: Lochgelly - Highest town in Fife at 150m ASL.
  • Weather Preferences: Snow and cold. Enjoy all extremes though.
  • Location: Lochgelly - Highest town in Fife at 150m ASL.

    I was so relieved to hear that Parliament has been recalled. Hopefully MPs will vote against the Government's intentions. However, something William Hague said in a recent interview niggles me when he agreed that recalling Parliament would be preferred -  UNLESS WE HAVE TO MOVE QUICKLY. Then today we have this:

     

     

    http://worldnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/08/27/20209022-military-strikes-on-syria-as-early-as-thursday-us-officials-say?lite

     

    I also didn't like David Cameron's refusal to answer the question about if a vote went against him, would that then mean a British military response would be off the table.

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  • Location: NR LOURDES SW FRANCE
  • Location: NR LOURDES SW FRANCE

    I was so relieved to hear that Parliament has been recalled. Hopefully MPs will vote against the Government's intentions. However, something William Hague said in a recent interview niggles me when he agreed that recalling Parliament would be preferred -  UNLESS WE HAVE TO MOVE QUICKLY. Then today we have this:

     

     

    http://worldnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/08/27/20209022-military-strikes-on-syria-as-early-as-thursday-us-officials-say?lite

     

    I also didn't like David Cameron's refusal to answer the question about if a vote went against him, would that then mean a military response would be off the table.

    William Hague is turning into a Neo-Con and should join the Republican party! If Cameron recalls parliament then ignores a vote then he deserves to get kicked out, sadly regardless of what happens with Syria voters will be thinking of the economy and jobs come the next election, if Blair managed to survive Iraq then Cameron can easily win even with another overseas disaster.

    Why don't the Arab league sort this out? its nothing to do with the UK, France or the USA. I fear that after all the heart strings have been pulled that Westminster will cave in and agree to some action, maybe the same politician who is likely to be banding around pictures of dead children in Syria might also like to put a few up of the scenes in Rwanda when the world did nothing and 800,000 people were wiped out in under a hundred days!

    Maybe the USA could remind us of the last superpower to use chemical weapons, oops that would be them! Hypocrisy, politicians trying to run around looking like they suddenly care about people getting killed, Hollande the most dismal excuse for a President France has ever seen trying to look all macho, apparently he's asked stupid Bush where he got that bomber jacket from as he wants to stand on a warship saying mission accomplished!

    The whole thing looks like a set up, get rid of Assad and hope that the next government will be more pro-West and can be used for their real motive Iran, shame these stupid politicians don't realize they could be opening up a pandoras box that could see the Middle East go up in flames!

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    Posted
  • Location: Sheffield South Yorkshire 160M Powering the Sheffield Shield
  • Weather Preferences: Any Extreme
  • Location: Sheffield South Yorkshire 160M Powering the Sheffield Shield

    Not for us to sort out. It's up to Arab league to do this. Cameron has got to stop trying to outdo Blairs warmongering. I wouldn't be surprised that both sides have used chemical weapons a UN representative on the ground said the rebels had used such weapons. So do we attack them both. The best people to sort this out is the Arab League and then for US and Russia and China Iran to stop supplying arms.

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    Posted
  • Location: Stoke Gifford, Bristol
  • Location: Stoke Gifford, Bristol

    William Hague is turning into a Neo-Con and should join the Republican party! If Cameron recalls parliament then ignores a vote then he deserves to get kicked out, sadly regardless of what happens with Syria voters will be thinking of the economy and jobs come the next election, if Blair managed to survive Iraq then Cameron can easily win even with another overseas disaster.Why don't the Arab league sort this out? its nothing to do with the UK, France or the USA. I fear that after all the heart strings have been pulled that Westminster will cave in and agree to some action, maybe the same politician who is likely to be banding around pictures of dead children in Syria might also like to put a few up of the scenes in Rwanda when the world did nothing and 800,000 people were wiped out in under a hundred days!Maybe the USA could remind us of the last superpower to use chemical weapons, oops that would be them! Hypocrisy, politicians trying to run around looking like they suddenly care about people getting killed, Hollande the most dismal excuse for a President France has ever seen trying to look all macho, apparently he's asked stupid Bush where he got that bomber jacket from as he wants to stand on a warship saying mission accomplished!The whole thing looks like a set up, get rid of Assad and hope that the next government will be more pro-West and can be used for their real motive Iran, shame these stupid politicians don't realize they could be opening up a pandoras box that could see the Middle East go up in flames!

    Since when have the arabs been able to sort their own backyard out? you have dictatorial regimes, royal houses who are all as corrupt as each other.The Americans, the UK and others get damned if they do and damned if they dont.Meanwhile the middle east peace envoy who once governed the UK is reportedly swanning around in St Tropez. Great work if u can get it.And yes, home grown issues like the economy and jobs are more important in most people's micro world. Edited by Bristle boy
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    Posted
  • Location: Beccles, Suffolk.
  • Weather Preferences: Thunder, snow, heat, sunshine...
  • Location: Beccles, Suffolk.

    And yes, home grown issues like the economy and jobs are more important in most people's micro world.

    I sincerely hope that turns out to be the case, BB...It's time folks stopped seeing the rest of the world as a posh boys' shootem up!

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    Posted
  • Location: NR LOURDES SW FRANCE
  • Location: NR LOURDES SW FRANCE

    Since when have the arabs been able to sort their own backyard out? you have dictatorial regimes, royal houses who are all as corrupt as each other.The Americans, the UK and others get damned if they do and damned if they dont.Meanwhile the middle east peace envoy who once governed the UK is reportedly swanning around in St Tropez. Great work if u can get it.And yes, home grown issues like the economy and jobs are more important in most people's micro world.

    As for Blair he really should be sharing a cell with Bush, unfortunately the USA, UK and France have boxed themselves in and so will have to do something now otherwise they will look weak. So to save face lots of people will die! In terms of the next election even if the Syria escapade turns out to be yet another monumental disaster most voters will just vote on UK issues so its a win win for Cameron, he gets to play the big guy and can have another 5 years playing PM!
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    Posted
  • Location: Near Romford Essex.
  • Location: Near Romford Essex.

    As for Blair he really should be sharing a cell with Bush, unfortunately the USA, UK and France have boxed themselves in and so will have to do something now otherwise they will look weak. So to save face lots of people will die! In terms of the next election even if the Syria escapade turns out to be yet another monumental disaster most voters will just vote on UK issues so its a win win for Cameron, he gets to play the big guy and can have another 5 years playing PM!

     

    Do the Arab League want the western powers to use force against Syria? If not why don't they stand as one and say to the UK USA france "Under no circumstances is any outside power to use military force against Syria" Where would Cameron and co stand then?

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    Posted
  • Location: Sheffield South Yorkshire 160M Powering the Sheffield Shield
  • Weather Preferences: Any Extreme
  • Location: Sheffield South Yorkshire 160M Powering the Sheffield Shield

    Since when have the arabs been able to sort their own backyard out? you have dictatorial regimes, royal houses who are all as corrupt as each other. 

     

    Perhaps it's because they're used to us intervening.  Time to say it's your problem sort it out. If you want the military hardware we'll provide and the pilots for a charge but you're giving the operential orders.

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    Posted
  • Location: Leeds/Bradford border, 185 metres above sea level, around 600 feet
  • Location: Leeds/Bradford border, 185 metres above sea level, around 600 feet

    Do the Arab League want the western powers to use force against Syria? If not why don't they stand as one and say to the UK USA france "Under no circumstances is any outside power to use military force against Syria" Where would Cameron and co stand then?

     

    They never would. Half of them are dictators bankrolled by the west for oil and gas, the other half are Sunni countries who want terrorists and Iran (Shia Muslims) as far away from them as possible.

     

    Given the reactions from Turkey and Israel over the past 2 years only Russia has really stopped them dealing with it themselves.

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    Posted
  • Location: Camborne
  • Location: Camborne

     hypocrisy on a grand scale.

     

    Between 1961 and 1975, the United States waged war against the Viet Cong and their allies, and in the process defoliated the land and forests of Vietnam, as well as parts of Laos and Cambodia, with a toxic chemical cocktail known as Agent Orange. More than 50 years since the U.S. first launched its chemical warfare program in the Southeast Asian region, the tragedy of that brutal campaign lingers.

     

    This week, about a fortnight after the 52nd anniversary of the start of the chemical warfare campaign in and around Vietnam, a heartbreaking photo series that captures the agony of Agent Orange victims has gone viral. Originally shot by American photographer Brian Driscoll back in the summer of 2008, the series -- entitled "Will It Ever End?" -- remains relevant and jarringly powerful, telling the stories of the ongoing tragedy of the people and their offspring whose lives continue to be ravaged by the destructive poison.

     

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/08/26/agent-orange-victims_n_3818562.html

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    Posted
  • Location: Peterborough
  • Weather Preferences: Snow and frost in the winter. Hot and sunny, thunderstorms in the summer.
  • Location: Peterborough

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-23853342

     

    So the US are admitting there is no proof, only circumstantial evidence. Whilst all logic and reasoning goes against your thoughts Mr Kerry.

    This situation is total BS

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    Posted
  • Location: Gulberwick, Shetland
  • Weather Preferences: Snow, thunderstorms, storm force winds
  • Location: Gulberwick, Shetland

    A couple of points/questions on all of this:

     

    With respect to the use of chemical weapons. It is in nobody's interest to have the use of these abhorrent weapons become "de rigeur" or "the norm" not just for disgusting regimes like Assads but also bear in mind that some of the opposition groups in Syria are sympathetic or affiliated to the Al Qaeda cause. If NOTHING is done, these groups may very well take the message from that, that the west will not take stern measures if such weapons are used in future and they may well regard that as a green light to use them against us. Make no mistake, if we do nothing now, whilst it may seem like we are interfering in essentially a civil war in Syria, this can and will bite us in the a** in future. The very idea that we can somehow ignore what is going on and in doing so that will spare us from the same landing on our doorstep at a later date is patently risible.

     

    So, that said, can anyone give me a CREDIBLE alternative to the use of force? When I say CREDIBLE I do not mean the UN, that route is NOT CREDIBLE. I say this because two members of the Security Council, namely Russia & China, have made the UN about as useful as it's predecessor, The League Of Nations, by virtue of the fact that A) for their own selfish politcial ends and B) because they just do it to tweak the noses of the Americans no matter how many lives it costs, the UN cannot agree any form of words or actions which could EFFECTIVELY bring the Assad regime to heel and send the message that in this day and age the use of these types of weapons is unacceptable. Yes we know that chemical weapons have been used in the past, both in WWI and subsequent to that, but how that now makes any attempt to prevent their use in the here and now "hypocritical" is disjointed thinking at the very least, coloured as it is by certain individuals political "world view" and prejudices.

     

    Whilst many find the prospect of using force as morally wrong, how many of you have also considered the morals of two nations who purely for the "enjoyment" of getting up the Americans noses, would happily sit back and render the UN powerless and watch thousands die whilst not even getting their own hands dirty. It doesn't get more cynical than that. Hardly surprising though given that one nation is a cesspool which is basically a lacky of the bandits and gangsters of the Russian Mafia and the other, despite trying to pretend otherwise, is still a militaristic dictatorship, which holds thousands of prisoners of conscience and is rapidly throwing billions into building up it's military so it can also throw it's weight around and bully people just like the Americans it supposedly despises!

     

    So in summary, what I am looking for is a CREDIBLE and EFFECTIVE means of preventing further deaths as a result of the further use of chemical weapons not only in the context of the Syrian conflict but also in the wider context of preventing the notion that their regular use is somehow "acceptable" and will result in no real consequences for those who use them. Or are we just in the game of joining regimes like Russia and China and just sticking two fingers up at the Americans purely for the enjoyment of sticking two fingers up at the Americans, no matter what the cost because hey, at the end of the day, it's just a bunch of Arabs half way across the world thats been gassed so it's no concern of ours, right?

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    Posted
  • Location: Peterborough
  • Weather Preferences: Snow and frost in the winter. Hot and sunny, thunderstorms in the summer.
  • Location: Peterborough

    ^Again this is based on the assumption that it was Assad that used these weapons, which as I stated in the post above is merely based on circumstantial evidence and assumption. To flip your argument, what if it were the rebels that used the nerve gas and we take out Assad and instate a government which happily used chemical warfare to bring the western world into their conflict?

    This is the point, we don't know who did this and frankly the western media is so biased that getting the facts is very difficult unless you know where to look.

    As to the Russia and China stuff, I feel this is a pot and kettle situation, are we any better? Look at the atrocities in Africa and yet the US/UK don't bat an eyelid.

    Edited by Captain shortwave
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    Posted
  • Location: NR LOURDES SW FRANCE
  • Location: NR LOURDES SW FRANCE

    I can understand your frustrations with the whole situation SC but the only possible point of any military action would be if it improved the situation in Syria. The west can't attack any sites with chemical weapons because of the risk of unleashing these on surrounding areas, to go in and drop missiles possibly killing innocent civilians just for the sake of a punishment strike is pointless and could make things even worse.

    What if Assad fights back sending rockets into Israel or attacks UK/US warships in the Med, what do people expect him to do, just sit there and take this.

    And in all honesty if the west really cared about Syria they would have acted before over 100,000 were killed, this chemical red line should be called the face saving red line because thats all it is, the USA, UK and France have boxed themselves in with nowhere to go so they will risk catastrophic consequences to save face.

    Apparently the motion to be debated in parliament tomorrow is using such broad language that its bound to get through, of course Cameron wants this broad language as it gives him free rein to do what he likes.

    Surely someone can put forward another motion saying that no action can be taken until the UN report is finalised.

    I just despair of the whole situation and think this could end in tragic consequences.

    Edited by nick sussex
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    Posted
  • Location: Lochgelly - Highest town in Fife at 150m ASL.
  • Weather Preferences: Snow and cold. Enjoy all extremes though.
  • Location: Lochgelly - Highest town in Fife at 150m ASL.

    Why the rush? That's what I can't get my head round. I mean what can be simpler than waiting for the Weapons Inspectors' report, to confirm one way or another, the facts.  Then apply to the UN  depending on  those facts, keeping everything nice, neat and legal?  There MUST be an alternative agenda behind all of this. It just doesn't make any sense. I can only conclude that whatever their true agenda is, the reasons behind it must be dire to risk setting off at the very least a Middle East war or even world war 3? Oh.......wait a minute!

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  • Location: Eastbourne, East Sussex (work in Mid Sussex)
  • Location: Eastbourne, East Sussex (work in Mid Sussex)

    Where are events taking us? Here, right to the heart of everyone's pocket:

     

    Crude oil prices jump on Middle East fears

     

    http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/9f2570d2-0fc7-11e3-99e0-00144feabdc0.html#axzz2dG6wtIab

     

    Could this be the driver for US action? :whistling: 

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    Posted
  • Location: Beccles, Suffolk.
  • Weather Preferences: Thunder, snow, heat, sunshine...
  • Location: Beccles, Suffolk.

    Where are events taking us? Here, right to the heart of everyone's pocket:

     

     

    http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/9f2570d2-0fc7-11e3-99e0-00144feabdc0.html#axzz2dG6wtIab

     

    Could this be the driver for US action? Posted Image

    Another excuse for the cartels to participate in a wee bit of extortion...What a racket!

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    Posted
  • Location: Lochgelly - Highest town in Fife at 150m ASL.
  • Weather Preferences: Snow and cold. Enjoy all extremes though.
  • Location: Lochgelly - Highest town in Fife at 150m ASL.

    Another excuse for the cartels to participate in a wee bit of extortion...What a racket!

    There is one thing for sure, money and control (or the lack of) will be tied up in it somewhere!

     

    http://kingworldnews.com/kingworldnews/KWN_DailyWeb/Entries/2013/8/26_Gold_%26_Silver_War%2C_Worry_At_Fukushima_%26_Middle-East_Conflict.html

     

    http://kingworldnews.com/kingworldnews/KWN_DailyWeb/Entries/2013/8/26_West_Is_Now_Desperately_Trying_To_Avoid_Full-Blown_Collapse.html

    Edited by Blitzen
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    Can't guarantee the authenticity of this but from what I know it is not too dissimilar from the teachings of 'The Prophet'. 

     

    It is so sad that the tolerance referred to has not in many respects survived to the current day.

     

     

    Prophet Mohammad's letter to the Christians.

     

     

     

    The Greek Orthodox monks living in the monastery at the foot of Mount Sinai have in their possession many precious documents going back many centuries. Their library is one of the finest in the world for ancient manuscripts. One of the most precious documents of all is the copy of a letter narrated by Prophet Muhammad  to the monks in the year 628. Its contents might come as a surprise to many, since in this precious manuscript Muslims are exhorted to protect the Christians living within their midst. The words are so beautiful that we repeat them in full here: 

    This is a message from Mohamed ibn Abdullah, as a covenant to those who adopt Christianity (as their religion), near and far, we are with them.

     

     

     

    Verily I, the servants, the helpers, and my followers defend them, because Christians are my citizens; and by Allah! I hold out against anything that displeases them.. No compulsion is to be on them.. Neither are their judges to be removed from their jobs nor their monks from their monasteries.. No one is to destroy a house of their religion, to damage it, or to carry anything from it to the Muslims' houses.. Should anyone take any of these, he would spoil God's covenant and disobey His Prophet. Verily, they are my allies and have my secure charter against all that they hate.. No one is to force them to travel or to oblige them to fight.. The Muslims are to fight for them..

     

     

     

    If a female Christian is married to a Muslim, it is not to take place without her approval. She is not to be prevented from visiting her church to pray.. Their churches are to be respected. They are neither to be prevented from repairing them nor the sacredness of their covenants.. No one of the nation (Muslims) is to disobey the covenant till the Last Day (The end of the world - Judgement day.).

     

     

     

    It should be quite clear from this that, far from being a threat, Islam is actually the guardian of the Christian presence in the Middle East.   These words of the Prophet Mohammed should be made known to Muslims and non-Muslims throughout the world. -- Aleya Rouchdy, Ph.DProfessor EmeritaWayne State Universtiyhttp://www.arabiclanguageinamerica.blogspot.com/
     
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    Posted
  • Location: Camborne
  • Location: Camborne

    This is not something I've seen publicised very much but he has a point.

     

    Global warming and humanity’s failure to manage depleted natural resources are hidden causes of the Syrian crisis, the Prince of Wales says.

     

    Speaking at the World Islamic Economic Forum last night, the Prince suggested that the severe drought in Syria led directly to the social tensions that “exploded†into the civil war.

     

    The Prince, a vocal supporter of action on climate change, told the gathering of 1,800 political and business leaders from more than 115 countries that the deterioration of “nature’s capital reserves†can directly affect food and energy security.

     

    “The tragic conflict in Syria provides a terrifyingly graphic example, where a severe drought for the last seven years has decimated Syria’s rural economy,†he said. “This depletion of natural capital ... was a significant contributor to the social tension that exploded with such desperate results.â€

     

     

    Drought Called a Factor in Syria’s Uprising

     

    Two-and-a-half years ago, a group of children in the Syrian city of Dara’a triggered one of the bloodiest conflicts in the 21st century when they painted some anti-government graffiti on a school wall in the ancient farming community.
     
    The children were quickly detained and tortured, leading to widespread protests in the city that were met with harsh repression.  The government’s brutal response led to a nationwide revolt that has now stagnated into a bloody stalemate with no end in sight. 
     
    Dara’a is a mostly agricultural community in a region that has suffered an unrelenting drought since 2001. Some experts say it’s no accident that Syria’s civil war began there. 
     
    In 2009, the United Nations and other international agencies found that more than 800,000 Syrian farmers and herdsmen had been forced off their lands because of drought, with many crowding into cities like Dara’a.  Additionally, thousands of illegal wells were drilled, drastically lowering the nation’s ground water supply.

     

    http://www.voanews.com/content/drought-called-factor-in-syria-uprising/1733068.html

    Edited by knocker
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    • 3 weeks later...
    Posted
  • Location: Camborne
  • Location: Camborne

    Backwards. Shades of yesteryear

     

    The Russians Return To Egypt

    CAIRO -- Move over America, an old bedfellow might be returning to Egypt: Russia.

     

    On Thursday, top Russian and Egyptian officials began talks in Cairo, signaling a potential dramatic foreign policy shift following the U.S. decision to partially cut military aid to Egypt. The U.S. move came in response to the ousting of democratically elected, but controversial, Islamist President Mohamed Morsi.

     

    But Egypt and Russia are far from strangers. For 20 years, the two countries were the closest of allies. (Ahram Online published a series of photos of famous Egyptian and Russian figures smiling and posing together over the years -- everyone from Communist Party leader Nikita Khrushchev at an Aswan Dam construction celebration to dolled-up Egyptian actress Nadia Lutfi and Soviet actress Larisa Golubkina, laughing together in Moscow.)

     

     

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/11/14/russia-egypt_n_4273089.html

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    Posted
  • Location: Camborne
  • Location: Camborne

    From the Times

     

    Famine is being used as a weapon in Syria

    From the world’s front pages it might be reasonable to assume that the Syria crisis has eased. The chemical weapons inspectors have been able to go about their business, and Russian and US diplomats are talking intently. The collective sense of political and public relief in the West is palpable. Air strikes and intervention have been avoided, and a corner apparently turned.

     

    Nothing could be farther from the truth. The greatest crime yet is being executed against the Syrian people. Famine is being made a weapon of war. The Assad regime has reportedly been threatening rebel areas: “Surrender or starveâ€. The UN estimated that 9.3 million people — 40 per cent of the Syrian people — will need help to survive this winter. Neighbouring countries are being overwhelmed by refugees. One in four of Lebanon’s population is a Syrian refugee. Inside Syria the regime and hard-line rebel groups have put civilians under siege. Food, medicine and the relief workers to deliver them are denied access.

     

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    Posted
  • Location: Stockport
  • Location: Stockport

    War by famine is a particularly abhorrent practice, and sadly immensely effective. We may constantly be advancing the weaponry we use to kill each other but some things never change; hunger has been a weapon since time immemorial.

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  • Location: Clayton-Le-Woods, Chorley 59m asl.
  • Weather Preferences: very cold frosty days, blizzards, very hot weather, floods, storms
  • Location: Clayton-Le-Woods, Chorley 59m asl.

    Iran and the West has reached a nuclear weapons agreement. The west/America will give 7 billion dollars and inspectors to Iran, by halting some of the work on uranium enrichment. Israeli PM enraged by this.

     

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-25074729

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