The Middle East...where Are Events Taking Us?

[General Cluster 61,496]

Current plans are for air strikes not men on the ground.

One of Cameron's chums must have lobbied for a weapons test?

[The PIT 9,190]

Current plans are for air strikes not men on the ground.

I wonder if we're going to use our magic missiles which always hit the target and never hit civilians?

Edited August 26, 2013 by The PIT

[lfcdude 3,982]

Current plans are for air strikes not men on the ground.

 

Will need far more then a few airstrikes will lead to Israel Hezbollah all over again and the possibility of Iran, Then well civil war will continue in Syria anyways! 

Edited August 26, 2013 by lfcdude

[summer blizzard 7,178]

The answer, in my opinion, is he wouldn't.  I really fear for their safety.  This is bordering on the disgusting now.  What a predictable farce!

I really do hope that Parliament is recalled before any shots are fired. We might then just have a chance of  some breaks being put on this.

 

I'm not so sure. What you have to remember is that the west for 2 years has been entirely flaccid and a dictator is not the type to have them surrender and then go back to normal, he will likely believe that they should be entirely eradicated. Personally i suspect that he did indeed launch chemical weapons but that he did not order the shooting of inspectors.

 

Parliament i believe comes back next week anyway though technically a vote is not legally required (though i'm sure there will be one).

 

I'm undecided as to the result. On the one hand we have entered far too late but on the other the continued slaughter should not be aloud to continue and any peace settlement would be tantamount to the rebels surrendering which again should not be aloud. I think what it will come down to after his removal is whether the military steps in line as they can remove the terrorist elements while the FSA takes control, this would prevent a further decent. Of course if the military hail Assad as a martyr or fight afterwards then there's little that can be done.

[DAVID SNOW 5,197]

Panick  over,Cameron has cut short his holiday in Cornwall.

[lfcdude 3,982]

John Kerry sounds very much like William Hague... Not surprised, War is nailed on after that speech, Un team are not even their to decide who used chemical weapons just if their were used...Then blaming Assad. What a joke

Edited August 26, 2013 by lfcdude

[General Cluster 61,496]

John Kerry sounds very much like William Hague... Not surprised, War is nailed on after that speech, Un team are not even their to decide who used chemical weapons just if their were used...Then blaming Assad. What a joke

Mate, I think war has been 'nailed on' for a long time...

[summer blizzard 7,178]

McCain has been calling for war since the beginning.

[Blitzen 7,232]

The stench surrounding this latest farce is to justify another WMD war of aggression! I thought I noticed something odd during the BBC news article on the inspectors gathering evidence. Anyone else notice the item lying on the ground which they were measuring? Looked like some piece of a weapon. I mean just lying there in the open? So much for Assad supposedly using the 5 day delay to clear up!

Watched John Kerry's statement.....What a tearjerker! I swear I saw a pair of wings growing out from behind him. The hypocrisy was nauseating.

Edited August 26, 2013 by Blitzen

[General Cluster 61,496]

The stench surrounding this latest farce is to justify another WMD war of aggression! I thought I noticed something odd during the BBC news article on the inspectors gathering evidence. Anyone else notice the item lying on the ground which they were measuring? Looked like some piece of a weapon. I mean just lying there in the open? So much for Assad supposedly using the 5 day delay to clear up!

Watched John Kerry's statement.....What a tearjerker! I swear I saw a pair of wings growing out from behind him. The hypocrisy was nauseating.

And the reason behind it all: 

[Captain Shortwave 21,516]

Face it, we're going in and there's naff all we can do to stop it. It's Iraq all over again and we will be saying that in 5 years time.

[Blitzen 7,232]

Face it, we're going in and there's naff all we can do to stop it. It's Iraq all over again and we will be saying that in 5 years time.

If we're all here in 5 years  time!

 

The giveaway I think, will be if they don't recall Parliament.   To me that would signal that they are not interested in any delays? Decision on that to be taken tomorrow.

 

Fat lot of good Wan-Ki-Moon and the UN - oops! - small typo there -  *cough*   have turned out to be in all of this!

Edited August 26, 2013 by Blitzen

[knocker 57,652]

Face it, we're going in and there's naff all we can do to stop it. It's Iraq all over again and we will be saying that in 5 years time.

 

Hardly, we certainly won't send in ground troops. We haven't got any.

[Blitzen 7,232]

Going to have another look at that bbc news article more closely again. I am sure the inspectors were measuring something lying on the ground that looked like a weapon. Would fit in nicely with this..

 

http://www.debka.com/article/23222/UN-experts-to-hunt-for-chemical-shell-shrapnel---as-West-poised-to-strike-Syria-this-week

 

"Even after the alleged  Syrian Army's exhaustive clearup operation after its poison chemical attack, the UN experts hope to turn up overlooked fragments, however microscopic."

 

Those shells on that news report were about 3' long!!

 

It is also mentioned in the above article that the experts will report their initial findings as early as Tuesday morning or Wednesday, the 28th. The USA is not then prepared to wait around for further extensive tests. Sounds to me as if they intend to go in Wednesday night? That would fit,  because the Security Council meeting with Cameron is  on Wednesday.  That then would put the Parliament recall out of the picture.  God I hope I am wrong!

Edited August 26, 2013 by Blitzen

[Blitzen 7,232]

I wonder how all of this will affect Cyprus? I've just read that the RAF are expected to use the base at Akrotiri. Cyprus have already given the Russians permission to use their base south of Paphos for mainenance and supplies after they abandoned their Titan base in Syria. Russia gave Cyprus a huge loan too remember to save them going to the IMF for a bailout initially. Oops!  that one should be interesting.

Edited August 26, 2013 by Blitzen

[lfcdude 3,982]

I wonder how all of this will affect Cyprus? I've just read that the RAF are expected to use the base at Akrotiri. Cyprus have already given the Russians permission to use their base south of Paphos for mainenance and supplies after they abandoned their Titan base in Syria. Russia gave Cyprus a huge loan too remember to save them going to the IMF for a bailout initially. Oops!  that one should be interesting.

 

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/aug/26/syria-warplanes-cyprus-tensions-damascus

 

 

Well looks like were going to use r base their

[knocker 57,652]

Tony is in on the act. Problem solved.

 

Tony Blair has thrown his support behind a military strike on the Syrian regime to punish it for what the US last night called the “moral obscenity†of the gas attack that killed hundreds.

 

John Kerry, the US Secretary of State, said that President Obama was determined that there should be “accountability†for the use of the “world’s most heinous weapons against the world’s most vulnerable peopleâ€.

 

With David Cameron set to recall Parliament to discuss Britain’s participation in the US-led action, Mr Blair said that, after Iraq and Afghanistan, he understood the “impulse to stay clear of the turmoil†in the Middle East.

 

“But we have, collectively, to understand the consequences of wringing our hands instead of putting them to work,†he writes in The Times today. Without action, he claims, Syria will become “mired in carnage†and a “breeding ground for extremismâ€.

 

Full text of John Kerry’s statement on Syria

Below is the full text of Secretary of State John Kerry’s remarks about Syria, as provided by the State Department.

Well, for the last several days President Obama and his entire national security team have been reviewing the situation in Syria, and today I want to provide an update on our efforts as we consider our response to the use of chemical weapons.

 

 

http://www.bostonglobe.com/news/world/2013/08/26/full-text-john-kerry-statement-syria/TyCD9AYuoLC9704iRIaSHJ/story.html

Edited August 26, 2013 by knocker

[knocker 57,652]

Just a thought.

 

ony Blair has thrown his support behind a military strike on the Syrian regime to punish it for what the US last night called the “moral obscenity†of the gas attack that killed hundreds

 

 

Napalm in Vietnam from which thousands are still suffering, Perhaps there are different definitions of morality.

[mark4 99]

What I struggle to comprehend is who are the good guys in the Syrian conflict! We are only fed one point of view from the media outlets in this country. The Syrian leader (El Sid) was educated in England ... so surely with our world renowned exclusive education system like Eton, he must be a decent fellow...?

[nick sussex 63,345]

I find all this moralistic tripe from Western leaders nauseating, this chemical red line allegedly, whats the difference between blowing up a 1,000 people or using chemical weapons the act is still intent on killing.

Whats it go to do with the west anyway, its a civil war where the good and bad guys are hard to define, this isn't Kosovo! Just what happens to Syria post Assad, utter chaos with Al Qaeda and hundreds of tribal factions just as bad as Assad roaming around killing each other.

This is all the more complicated by Russian involvement, has the UK and USA not learnt anything from recent failed military campaigns.

[General Cluster 61,496]

I find all this moralistic tripe from Western leaders nauseating, this chemical red line allegedly, whats the difference between blowing up a 1,000 people or using chemical weapons the act is still intent on killing.Whats it go to do with the west anyway, its a civil war where the good and bad guys are hard to define, this isn't Kosovo! Just what happens to Syria post Assad, utter chaos with Al Qaeda and hundreds of tribal factions just as bad as Assad roaming around killing each other.This is all the more complicated by Russian involvement, has the UK and USA not learnt anything from recent failed military campaigns.

Nick Abbott was asking that very question on LBC, last night...How many 'innocent civilians' will the upcoming waves of carpet-bombing destroy? Or will that, as usual simply be euphemized 'collateral damage'!

[Bluebreezer54 3,265]

Just a thought.

 

 

Napalm in Vietnam from which thousands are still suffering, Perhaps there are different definitions of morality.

Then of course there was also the widespread use of 'Agent Orange'. If that's not chemical warfare I don't know what is.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agent_Orange

[General Cluster 61,496]

Then of course there was also the widespread use of 'Agent Orange'. If that's not chemical warfare I don't know what is.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agent_Orange

And, two guesses for who supplied them said chemicals?

[Just Before Dawn 189]

The stench surrounding this latest farce is to justify another WMD war of aggression! I thought I noticed something odd during the BBC news article on the inspectors gathering evidence. Anyone else notice the item lying on the ground which they were measuring? Looked like some piece of a weapon. I mean just lying there in the open? So much for Assad supposedly using the 5 day delay to clear up!

Watched John Kerry's statement.....What a tearjerker! I swear I saw a pair of wings growing out from behind him. The hypocrisy was nauseating.

 The UN Inspectors don't need the munitions to identify whether chemical weapons have been used - depending on the nature of the chemical used, they can do soil testing to establish that - The UN established the Iraqi use of tabun from environmental sampling during the Iran - Iraq war months after the incident in 1983.  They also confirmed the Iraqi use of Tabun (though not Sarin or VX as was alleged at the time) against Peshmerga guerillas in Halabja in 1988 using the same methods.

 

I don't know why everyone is remotely surprised by the reaction to the alleged use of chemical weapons in Syria by western powers. The West has always been twitchy about chemical weapon use, at least since the end of the cold war.  They are poor man's nuclear weapons - unlike nuclear weapons production, you don't need a vast and expensive inustrial infrastructure to produce them, if you have even a modest chemical industry, then you have the infrastructure to produce all the main chemical agents.  They are easy to deploy and in the hands of a terrorist organisation is a cheap and easy way to cause mass casualties (The Tokyo subway sarin attack is the evidence of this). 

 

That said, as usual, we've heard nothing about what a military intervention in Syria would be aimed at achieving.  Will it be targeted on Syria's chemical industry?  Is it aimed at removing Assad?  Are there any aims at all?  Given the experience in Afghanistan and Iraq, I've got no great expctations that we'll go into any military action against Syria with a clear, achievable aim. If it's to remove Syria's chemical weapons programme, then I doubt we can do that with air strikes alone... 

 

What was it Einstein said?  The definition of insanity is to repeat the same actions over and over again and still expect a different outcome? 

[Bluebreezer54 3,265]

Just watching the news and a commentator made the very valid point that attacking Syrias chemical plants would simply unleash a lot of those chemicals into the surrounding areas, thereby endangering the local population. The alternative is to attack government and military locations, but of course they are now forewarned and will base themselves well away from any danger.

 

The only possible outcome I can see from all this is that innocent civilians will once again become the victims. There is no such thing as friendly fire.