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The Middle East...where Are Events Taking Us?


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Posted
  • Location: Beccles, Suffolk.
  • Weather Preferences: Thunder, snow, heat, sunshine...
  • Location: Beccles, Suffolk.

    The Muslim Brotherhood are saying that it was wrong for the army to forcibly withdraw them from parliament even though they were within a democratically elected process, but so was Hitler. There must have been something SERIOUSLY wrong with that government if your own army stands against you.  

    Well, there was plenty wrong with Adolf Hitler's government...Did the military depose him? No, not a bit of it!

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    There is no other description for what is happening other than war crime and genocide.   Israel is technically the occupying force on Gaza and as such is duty bound to protect civilians.   Complet

    The scenes in Gaza look like the aftermath of a nuclear bomb, utter devastation. The Israelis telling people to go back to their homes in northern Gaza as its "safe", what are they supposed to go back

    Reported on the BBC too... An air strike on an army camp has killed three soldiers, the Syrian government says, blaming the US-led coalition for the attack. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-

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    Posted
  • Location: Hollywood, Worcestershire
  • Weather Preferences: Thunderstorms, Cold & Snowy
  • Location: Hollywood, Worcestershire

    Well, there was plenty wrong with Adolf Hitler's government...Did the military depose him? No, not a bit of it!

    No I meant the whole democratically elected process really. 

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    Posted
  • Location: Camborne
  • Location: Camborne

    Israel is between a rock and a hard place once again. The situation is a bit different but it does remind one of the many years after 48.

     

    What can Israel do about Egypt?

     

    Descent into civil war could render 1979 peace treaty null.

     

    http://www.jpost.com/Defense/What-can-Israel-do-about-Egypt-323157

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    I believe that the original aspirations of a lot of people in Egypt was to move away from the Islamic states which are afflicting a good part of the middle east and go more towards a secular government - the problem was that the leader and his supporters, before he was disposed, were Islamists.

     

    To an extent Turkey, after circa 100 years as a secular state recently started heading towards the Islamic path, hence the riots there - the more enlightened people do not want a reversal back to what can only be described as a medieval culture.

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    Posted
  • Location: Camborne
  • Location: Camborne

    I'm sorry but this has been going on in the ME for 60 years. And a solution has never been found, There is no middle ground. That is the problem.

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    Posted
  • Location: Sheffield South Yorkshire 160M Powering the Sheffield Shield
  • Weather Preferences: Any Extreme
  • Location: Sheffield South Yorkshire 160M Powering the Sheffield Shield

    Well after peaceful prayers and with their followers whipped into a frenzy of peaceful tolerance I expect a lot more loss of life later today due to the Muslim Brotherhood.

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  • Location: Leeds/Bradford border, 185 metres above sea level, around 600 feet
  • Location: Leeds/Bradford border, 185 metres above sea level, around 600 feet

    I believe that the original aspirations of a lot of people in Egypt was to move away from the Islamic states which are afflicting a good part of the middle east and go more towards a secular government - the problem was that the leader and his supporters, before he was disposed, were Islamists. To an extent Turkey, after circa 100 years as a secular state recently started heading towards the Islamic path, hence the riots there - the more enlightened people do not want a reversal back to what can only be described as a medieval culture.

    Theres a secterian majority in both countries, the problem is that the secular people are all young and in the cities.The only reason Turkey has remained secular is becausr its military has often stuck its oar in.
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  • Location: Devizes Wiltshire
  • Location: Devizes Wiltshire

    Well after peaceful prayers and with their followers whipped into a frenzy of peaceful tolerance I expect a lot more loss of life later today due to the Muslim Brotherhood.

     

    Indeed just have a read of what the Muslim brotherhood Sermon is saying https://twitter.com/BowenBBC

     

    Very much a terrorist organization 

    Edited by lfcdude
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  • Location: Sheffield South Yorkshire 160M Powering the Sheffield Shield
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  • Location: Sheffield South Yorkshire 160M Powering the Sheffield Shield

    I think I misunderstood the words tolerance and peace.

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    Posted
  • Location: N.Bedfordshire, E.Northamptonshire
  • Weather Preferences: Cool not cold, warm not hot. No strong Wind.
  • Location: N.Bedfordshire, E.Northamptonshire

    Used to be a case of "When in Rome", but seems everyone wants to bring Rome to you these days.

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    Posted
  • Location: 4 miles north of Durham City
  • Location: 4 miles north of Durham City
    It's funny how people like to pick sides in foreign political struggles without a thorough understanding of why there are such divisions. All of these arguments are a waste of time and a distraction. It's a distraction from the central problem. The problem being that different factions all desire power and influence, and thus they are all in the wrong. The very model of the nation-state is an anachronistic and fatally flawed arrangement that yields nothing but coercion and strife. It is time for people and neighborhoods to run their own affairs without being overly isolated or tribalistic. Are people capable of that? Capable of transcending the desire to pick ruling elites? God knows when they will grow up.
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  • Location: Sunderland
  • Weather Preferences: cold
  • Location: Sunderland

     

    It's funny how people like to pick sides in foreign political struggles without a thorough understanding of why there are such divisions. All of these arguments are a waste of time and a distraction. It's a distraction from the central problem. The problem being that different factions all desire power and influence, and thus they are all in the wrong. The very model of the nation-state is an anachronistic and fatally flawed arrangement that yields nothing but coercion and strife. It is time for people and neighborhoods to run their own affairs without being overly isolated or tribalistic. Are people capable of that? Capable of transcending the desire to pick ruling elites? God knows when they will grow up.

     

    Spot on.

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  • Location: Sheffield South Yorkshire 160M Powering the Sheffield Shield
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  • Location: Sheffield South Yorkshire 160M Powering the Sheffield Shield

    Aaah PP wants to get back to local tribal warfare. Humans are naturally tribalistic so as soon as you have people running local neighbourhoods you'll get the same thing but on a smaller scale .

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    Posted
  • Location: Camborne
  • Location: Camborne

    Candidly Speaking: Obama appeasement will result in disaster

     

    While hundreds of people are being brutally killed daily, the international community remains obsessed with condemning Israel.

    Reviewing Israel’s political situation after two weeks abroad is a disconcerting exercise.

    As anticipated, the Arab Spring has devolved into a bloody nightmare that has engulfed Egypt, leaving Israel surrounded by a sea of violence and barbarism with no prospect of stability on the horizon.

    Yet while hundreds of people are being brutally killed daily, the international community remains obsessed with condemning Israel for allowing the construction of homes in the Jewish suburbs of east Jerusalem.

     

    http://www.jpost.com/Opinion/Columnists/Candidly-Speaking-Obama-appeasement-will-result-in-disaster-323619

    Edited by knocker
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  • Location: Home - Bexley, London/Kent border. Work - Cannon Street, C London
  • Location: Home - Bexley, London/Kent border. Work - Cannon Street, C London

    I struggle to have a definitive view on the Egyptian situation.

     

    On the one hand the Muslim Brotherhood have a questionable record on many issues and have seemingly gone against their pledges during the election, effectively duping many into voting for them on false pretences.

     

    On the other hand, that is how western style democracy works and I do not believe Nick Clegg & Co should be frog-marched out of 'power' because they failed to comply with their tuition fee pledge (for example). The MB were elected by the people in an election which was not considered to be rigged or people forced to vote in their favour.

     

    I cannot help but feel sorry for the Egyptian people in all this.

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    Posted
  • Location: Beccles, Suffolk.
  • Weather Preferences: Thunder, snow, heat, sunshine...
  • Location: Beccles, Suffolk.

    Agreed Harry...It's odd how all those great Western leaders, who helped get rid of the last Egyptian dictatorship, seem to be largely silent, now? And that goes for all of them.

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  • Location: Eastbourne, East Sussex (work in Mid Sussex)
  • Location: Eastbourne, East Sussex (work in Mid Sussex)

    I cannot help but feel sorry for the Egyptian people in all this.

     

    Spoke at some length with locals in Sharm last year and they were all just looking forward to a period of stability, growth and democracy. The Red Sea resorts, often quite detached from the daily goings on in the main parts of Egypt are still looking safe, but measures are having to be put in place for reassurance to tourists, who are a huge income for Egypt:

     

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/travel/article-2398780/Egypt-travel-latest-Soldiers-stationed-Sharm-El-Sheikh-airport-resorts-stay-calm.html

     

    The Foreign and Commonwealth Office (FCO) is advising against all travel to North Sinai and all but essential travel to Egypt but the warning excludes the Red Sea resorts in South Sinai and the Egyptian mainland.
     
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  • Location: Sheffield South Yorkshire 160M Powering the Sheffield Shield
  • Weather Preferences: Any Extreme
  • Location: Sheffield South Yorkshire 160M Powering the Sheffield Shield

    Agreed Harry...It's odd how all those great Western leaders, who helped get rid of the last Egyptian dictatorship, seem to be largely silent, now? And that goes for all of them.

    Not really. Apparently a lot of undemocratic stuff was going on that wasn't reported by the press so if they stood up for the Muslim Brotherhood they would have been pushing for another dictatorship.  If they support the army they could also end up supporting another dictatorship. So at the moment it's best to keep quiet.

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  • Location: Leeds/Bradford border, 185 metres above sea level, around 600 feet
  • Location: Leeds/Bradford border, 185 metres above sea level, around 600 feet

    For the moment i'm giving the Egyptian army the benefit of the doubt. They have said that new elections will take place and clearly the aid from the west is doing its job in having the army committed to a secular country so lets hope that Egypt is simply the new Turkey (the military often sticked its oar in against Islamic policy there).

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    Posted
  • Location: Home - Bexley, London/Kent border. Work - Cannon Street, C London
  • Location: Home - Bexley, London/Kent border. Work - Cannon Street, C London

    For the moment i'm giving the Egyptian army the benefit of the doubt. They have said that new elections will take place and clearly the aid from the west is doing its job in having the army committed to a secular country so lets hope that Egypt is simply the new Turkey (the military often sticked its oar in against Islamic policy there).

    This is the problem for me - I agree with you in favouring a secular society, as I think entwining directly religion and politics seldom has a positive outcome for citizens under its rule.That said, what I think (or we think) is irrelevant. We did not vote in the election, the Egyptians did. They mandated an Islamic rule, they got it (and clearly for a lot of them regretted it). It is not for the west to push them for a secular society - they need to work it out (and more importantly, choose it) themselves. Edited by Harry
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  • Location: Leeds/Bradford border, 185 metres above sea level, around 600 feet
  • Location: Leeds/Bradford border, 185 metres above sea level, around 600 feet

    This is the problem for me - I agree with you in favouring a secular society, as I think entwining directly religion and politics seldom has a positive outcome for citizens under its rule.That said, what I think (or we think) is irrelevant. We did not vote in the election, the Egyptians did. They mandated an Islamic rule, they got it (and clearly for a lot of them regretted it). It is not for the west to push them for a secular society - they need to work it out (and more importantly, choose it) themselves.

     

    Your idea sounds great but it is very idealistic.To leave countries to themselves simply results in the most well armed faction winning. It of course also assumes that the west has no right to push it's views on other places which i very much disagree with. Western civilization may not be perfect but i'm more than happy for its continued rule and pushing democracy on other nations.

     

    Egypt does have some things on its side. It's been pretty western friendly, it's a Sunni Muslim country (perhaps controversial but i put most of the blame for the Sunni-Shia conflicts on the Shia led in large part by Iran - most north African countries and Indonesia have always been much more open and friendly even with sharia law) and it's got a population of 80 million which puts it in good stead in terms of becoming a large economy (infact it's a "next 11" economy.

    Edited by summer blizzard
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  • Location: Sheffield South Yorkshire 160M Powering the Sheffield Shield
  • Weather Preferences: Any Extreme
  • Location: Sheffield South Yorkshire 160M Powering the Sheffield Shield

    SB the West has no right to push it's ideas onto any country. It's up to countries to find there own way. Forcing your view points is just another form of dictatorship and you call harry idealistic.

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  • Location: Leeds/Bradford border, 185 metres above sea level, around 600 feet
  • Location: Leeds/Bradford border, 185 metres above sea level, around 600 feet

    SB the West has no right to push it's ideas onto any country. It's up to countries to find there own way. Forcing your view points is just another form of dictatorship and you call harry idealistic.

     

    I don't agree with micro-managing a country (imperialism in that sense is very costly) however i think that if the majority of a country supports a secular democracy then the minority opposing have little choice but to accept it. In that same sense i think that since the majority of the UN support secular democracies then as one location on the larger earth then the west has the right to act as the police force of the world amongst decedent nations.  

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    Posted
  • Location: Camborne
  • Location: Camborne

    For what good this will do.

     

    U.N. calls emergency meeting on Syria chemical weapons charges

     

    Syrian opposition activists in Douma provided this image said to show a man mourning over the body of a victim of an alleged poisonous gas attack outside the capital, Damascus. (Associated Press / August 21, 2013)

     

    http://www.latimes.com/world/worldnow/la-fg-wn-syria-un-chemical-weapons-20130821,0,5055483.story

    post-12275-0-61123900-1377117458_thumb.j

    Edited by knocker
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    Posted
  • Location: Stoke Gifford, Bristol
  • Location: Stoke Gifford, Bristol

    Just watching bbc news report on obvious atrocity in Syria - chemical nerve gas attack it seems.

    What a basket case much of the middle east is.

    I dont pretend to know the answer.

    Strategic politics will continue to rule the roost.

    Glad i live in the UK, even though i know it's not perfect.

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