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The Middle East...where Are Events Taking Us?


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Posted
  • Location: Camborne
  • Location: Camborne

    This time tomorrow he will be gone, His speech tonight, Would of insulted people.. He is trying to bring holy war, I will give my blood for Islamic rule, Who the hell is he kidding anymore. Sooner he gone the better.

     

    And so what happens next? He is not alone out there. If anyone has the answer to the Middle East problem they should receive a Nobel Peace prize immediately.

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    There is no other description for what is happening other than war crime and genocide.   Israel is technically the occupying force on Gaza and as such is duty bound to protect civilians.   Complet

    The scenes in Gaza look like the aftermath of a nuclear bomb, utter devastation. The Israelis telling people to go back to their homes in northern Gaza as its "safe", what are they supposed to go back

    Reported on the BBC too... An air strike on an army camp has killed three soldiers, the Syrian government says, blaming the US-led coalition for the attack. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-

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    Posted
  • Location: Devizes Wiltshire
  • Location: Devizes Wiltshire

    Middle east will never be solved...Just need a Gaddafi who in my opinion did a good job,  Mubaric and so on to keep them under control, Sure their are not all full of roses, But least the place was stable, Plus their were far better off.

    Edited by lfcdude
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    Posted
  • Location: Camborne
  • Location: Camborne

    I've no idea what you mean by the democracy' route. What Middle East country aspires to western ideas of democracy let alone wants it? It's a non starter while you have the divisions within Islam.

    Edited by knocker
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    Posted
  • Location: Camborne
  • Location: Camborne

    Middle east will never be solved...Just need a Gaddafi who in my opinion did a good job,  Mubaric and so on to keep them under control, Sure their are not all full of roses, But least the place was stable, Plus their were far better off.

     

    The same point could be made about Saddam, Assad and Tito. But there is no freedom for the people.

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    The same point could be made about Saddam, Assad and Tito. But there is no freedom for the people.

    That is so but when it comes to a choice between freedom and bread most people would choose bread - at least they get to stay alive that way.

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    Posted
  • Location: Camborne
  • Location: Camborne

    That is so but when it comes to a choice between freedom and bread most people would choose bread - at least they get to stay alive that way.

     

    Well  millions died under Saddam's reign so I'm not so sure about that. How about the Marsh Arabs.

     

    Saddam drains the life of the Marsh Arabs: The Arabs of southern Iraq cannot endure their villages being bombed and their land being poisoned, and are seeking refuge in Iran. Michael Wood reports from Huwaiza Marsh on the death of a 5,000-year-old culture

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/saddam-drains-the-life-of-the-marsh-arabs-the-arabs-of-southern-iraq-cannot-endure-their-villages-being-bombed-and-their-land-being-poisoned-and-are-seeking-refuge-in-iran-michael-wood-reports-from-huwaiza-marsh-on-the-death-of-a-5000yearold-culture-1463823.html

     

    I understand the stability point but at the end of the day I still feel it's the divisions within Islam and extremists backed by Russia that are causing problems that I can't see that can be reconciled without more bloodshed.

    Edited by knocker
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    Posted
  • Location: Devizes Wiltshire
  • Location: Devizes Wiltshire

    What has Assad done wrong? he is fighting terrorist's..Not what Hague goes on about every day,. but its mostly terrorist's...  Wish English had the scatter cushions to stand up, instead of being over run, not racist, why English move from London and citys, to the countryside, their cant put up with em no more, what is going on in Egypt, is a template that will follow here soon...

     

    Why everyone would love London going it alone London is not England.. Sure a fair few think that. London is a beast that feeds its own ego, At England expense

    Edited by lfcdude
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    Posted
  • Location: Sheffield South Yorkshire 160M Powering the Sheffield Shield
  • Weather Preferences: Any Extreme
  • Location: Sheffield South Yorkshire 160M Powering the Sheffield Shield

    Well perhaps if the West hadn't backed Saddam he wouldn't have been in a position  to be ruthless. How many died in the Iran Iraqi wars where the west hoped he'd topple the regime in Iran?

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    Posted
  • Location: Bramley, Hampshire, 70m asl
  • Location: Bramley, Hampshire, 70m asl

    Telling.... that the security forces intervene when there is a pro Morsi demonstration.

    http://english.ahram.org.eg/NewsContent/1/64/75544/Egypt/Politics-/UPDATED-Cairo-University-clashes-intensify-leaving.aspx

     

    Egypt's military commander-in-chief put out a statement in the early hours which said, amongst other things; "And we swear to God that we will sacrifice our blood for Egypt and its people against every terrorist, extremist or ignorant person,"

     

    So everything is pointing towards violent confrontation today ......how bad it gets is likely to be determined by how much support the Muslm brotherhood can get on the streets and how organised they are, but at the end of the day the Egyptian military are be far too powerful and organised to doubt the outcome of this coup. 

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    Posted
  • Location: Camborne
  • Location: Camborne

    Well perhaps if the West hadn't backed Saddam he wouldn't have been in a position  to be ruthless. How many died in the Iran Iraqi wars where the west hoped he'd topple the regime in Iran?

     

    Why does everyone ignore the role the Soviet Union played during these years? Anyway we didn't support his rise within the Ba'ath Party. Aside from that Kiwi is correct, that in the short term the  Egyptian military hold all the cards but I fear it will not end well.

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    Posted
  • Location: Sheffield South Yorkshire 160M Powering the Sheffield Shield
  • Weather Preferences: Any Extreme
  • Location: Sheffield South Yorkshire 160M Powering the Sheffield Shield

    Why does everyone ignore the role the Soviet Union played during these years? Anyway we didn't support his rise within the Ba'ath Party. Aside from that Kiwi is correct, that in the short term the  Egyptian military hold all the cards but I fear it will not end well.

    Sure about that?

     

    At the time, Morris continues, Saddam was a Baath operative studying law in Cairo, one of the venues the CIA chose to plan the coup. [saddam] was actually on the CIA payroll in those days . "There's no question," Morris says. "It was there in Cairo that (Saddam) and others were first contacted by the agency." In 1968, Morris says, the CIA encouraged a palace revolt among Baath party elements led by long-time Saddam mentor Ahmed Hassan al-Bakr, who would turn over the reins of power to his ambitious protégé [saddam] in 1979. "It's a regime that was unquestionably midwived by the United States, and the (CIA's) involvement there was really primary,

     

    We knowl USSR were bad guys but we weren't much better either.

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    Posted
  • Location: Devizes Wiltshire
  • Location: Devizes Wiltshire

    Army press conference now, Morsi is no longer president of Egypt, Victory against Islamic shia law! 

     

    Party time in Tahrir Square and all over Egypt!  Amazing scenes on sky news

    Edited by lfcdude
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    Posted
  • Location: Leeds/Bradford border, 185 metres above sea level, around 600 feet
  • Location: Leeds/Bradford border, 185 metres above sea level, around 600 feet

    Very much like Turkey of old where the military was always careful to keep a western friendly secular government and avoid any moves to an Islamic nation. Not sure whether to be pleased or unhappy at this news.

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    It does seem that there is a grass roots level movement in parts of the middle east against the Islamic controlled states and moving more towards secular governments.

     

    In Turkey, which has been a secular state for about 100 years, many people appear to have taken exception to the current prime minister appearing to take the clock back to the days of Islam, hence the riots. It appears to be the same situation in Egypt, though democracy only appear to have lasted just a year, so let's hope cooler heads take control with the creation of a democratic more secular society.

     

    As for Iraq, inter religious wars still reign, so despite the best efforts of President Bush, there is still a high loss of life there.

     

    I sense that Iran is gradually becoming more moderate with really an intelligent well informed population managing to loosen the grips of the mullahs to some extent.

     

    Syria - who knows which way this country will go - so many different factions have vested interests.

     

    Apart from Egypt we have heard little about North Africa, so just hope progress is continuing to be made.

     

    Often we can be proved wrong by making generalisations but I get the impression that areas with more advanced education are becoming less inclined to tolerate the excesses of the Islamists who appear to get their support mainly from country people who have not had the benefit of a more modern education.

     

    I am confident that over a period of a few decades things will gradually improve, though it is likely to be in the mode of three steps forward and three steps back.

    Edited by mike Meehan
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    Posted
  • Location: Clayton-Le-Woods, Chorley 59m asl.
  • Weather Preferences: very cold frosty days, blizzards, very hot weather, floods, storms
  • Location: Clayton-Le-Woods, Chorley 59m asl.

    I really pleased that Morsi got ousted by the military. I hope the new government will do much better than Morsi. Morsi is a type of guy who gonna make Egypt into a Islamist country like Iran, he is also out of touch especially his last speech last night.

     

    He is only cared about his supporters and his political party.

    Edited by pip22
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    It sounds more appealing by the day the idea that the army would oust our oligarchy of treacherous leaders. I don't see how things could end up being any worse. They only serve themselves not their people. Democracy is a bit of a sham isn't it? Adolf Hitler was elected.

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    I recall years a go as a boy at school my old geography teacher, Johnny Worsnop said, 'Democracy has within itself the seeds to destroy itself'.

     

    It's so true.

     

    Johnny Worsnop, despite being somewhat deformed with a hunch back was a fantastic character who commanded the respect of the whole school - such a pity they don't make 'em like that any more but a lot of our teachers had seen service in WW11 which gave a certain strength of character to a lot of people which we don't see so much of today.

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    Posted
  • Location: Sheffield South Yorkshire 160M Powering the Sheffield Shield
  • Weather Preferences: Any Extreme
  • Location: Sheffield South Yorkshire 160M Powering the Sheffield Shield

    While it's nice too see extremist Islam given a bloody nose it isn't going to go away peacefully. I expect riots later today with loss of life. It also brings the question what happens if the Brotherhood wins the next election? The military take over again?

     

    As for caring only about his supporters and party. Tha'ts the same world wide.

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    Posted
  • Location: Bramley, Hampshire, 70m asl
  • Location: Bramley, Hampshire, 70m asl

    While it's nice too see extremist Islam given a bloody nose it isn't going to go away peacefully. I expect riots later today with loss of life. It also brings the question what happens if the Brotherhood wins the next election? The military take over again?

     

    As for caring only about his supporters and party. Tha'ts the same world wide.

    Yes Pit, it could get messy.

    The Islamic parties, including the brotherhood, have a huge following in Egypt and may well be whipped into a frenzy following Friday prayers.

     

    ....... Clearly democracy is so last year. The army are remiss in not staging a coup here . Our democratically elected government is also unpopular ...especially up north and in Scotland, so lets oust them, or perhaps we could divy up the country along the lines of the Syrian model.

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    I may be wrong but from what I can gather Islam has its strongest support from the poorer and less well educated parts of the population.

     

    I wonder whether it would be possible to draw a parallel between their societies and ours of the middle ages where the church was all powerful in peoples' lives and the edicts given out by the priests were taken as gospel, if you pardon the pun. Now in the West religious differences between peoples of western religious persuasions are more of a secondary importance and the diminishing of this became more obvious during the late 20th century.

     

    If this is the case, I am in hopes that with improved education becoming wider spread the Islamic clerics may start to lose the influence they have in peoples' lives who would start to think more for themselves. The point that the Taliban ban education for girls and for boys it is mostly religious education is not lost on me.

     

    Some of the Islamic countries have quite good educational systems, whilst others do not but with time the poorer countries should improve and with more wide spread education the more extreme elements should start to diminish.

     

    As for how long this is going to take, it is easier trying to determine the length of a piece of string but what I do know is that in order to enable this, interference from the West should be reduced to a minimum because a good portion of this is brought on through our greed for oil and gas and only serves to rekindle past historic grievances, aggravating the current situations.  

     

    Despite the current controversy over 'fracking', surely it would be a positive move to have our own supplies of oil and gas in the West rather than continue to depend on an unstable Middle East and leave them to evolve their systems of government at a more natural pace without too much interference from us. In my view, when such a peace eventually does come it will be longer lasting.

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    Posted
  • Location: Devizes Wiltshire
  • Location: Devizes Wiltshire

    http://www.aljazeera.com/watch_now/

     

    Kicking of abit now

     

    a few hours ago...

    Muslim Brotherhood supreme leader Mohammed Badie

     

    No one speaks on behalf of the Egyptian people,†Badie said. “Everyone has one voice and had the chance to vote.â€

    He said Mohamed Morsi is the only president in Egypt.

    “We will sacrifice ourselves, our souls and our blood, for president Morsi,†he said.

     

     

    Who are their kidding any more? Nothing short of terrorists instigating civil unrest violence and holy war, Like their are raging in Syria 

    Edited by lfcdude
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    Posted
  • Location: Bratislava (240m)
  • Location: Bratislava (240m)

    Not good. Three deaths and dozens of injuries, including BBC reporter Jeremy Bowen who got hit above the ear. It's bad enough that the army decided to open fire on the crowds with such little provocation but apparently they also neglected to use tear gas first.

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    Posted
  • Location: Devizes Wiltshire
  • Location: Devizes Wiltshire

    Not good. Three deaths and dozens of injuries, including BBC reporter Jeremy Bowen who got hit above the ear. It's bad enough that the army decided to open fire on the crowds with such little provocation but apparently they also neglected to use tear gas first.

     

     

    Their warned them a fair few times to be fair, Their were told, Shots were fired in the air, But their kept marching towards it, So fair play army shot a few, Muslims then played why always me card, As always, Army has every right to defend their buildings

    This is what happens, When extreme religious nutters get into politics, MB is nothing short of a terrorist organisation though after all their are the "Rebel's" in Syria 

    Edited by lfcdude
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    Posted
  • Location: Bratislava (240m)
  • Location: Bratislava (240m)

    So why didn't they use tear gas first to disperse the crowd instead of waiting till they'd already started shooting? I think they've got that one the wrong way round. I'm not defending Morsi or the MB, but it's a bad sign when the military start abusing their trust in this type of situation (they've denied using live rounds at all).

     

    I suppose this is what happens when you elect a president before making a proper constitution.

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    Posted
  • Location: Devizes Wiltshire
  • Location: Devizes Wiltshire

    So why didn't they use tear gas first to disperse the crowd instead of waiting till they'd already started shooting? I think they've got that one the wrong way round. I'm not defending Morsi or the MB, but it's a bad sign when the military start abusing their trust in this type of situation (they've denied using live rounds at all).

     

    I suppose this is what happens when you elect a president before making a proper constitution.

     

     

    Simply put the army has played a blinder tonight, al jazeera praising them. Muslim brotherhood today set out to destabilise the country, Their failed! Now all their leaders who was asking for holy war lock them up, Fair play Egypt Army, Army has shown trust restraint, Their shot them simply put because their decided to die marters, Died for propaganda as their religious nuts,  Army defending the people from these Islamic terrorists, Their have tried to stage their own deaths countless times today, The 3 who got shot well their with their god now, Army driving the anti MB home past the MB lines on the bridge was a lovely sight

    Edited by lfcdude
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