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The Middle East...where Are Events Taking Us?


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Posted
  • Location: Sheffield South Yorkshire 160M Powering the Sheffield Shield
  • Weather Preferences: Any Extreme
  • Location: Sheffield South Yorkshire 160M Powering the Sheffield Shield

    And our nice Mr Cameron has been going round the middle east with companies that deal in arms. Mr Privatise all goes even further down in my rankings from zero to -minus ten.

    We should have a prime directive. We don't sell arms too tin pots countries.

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    There is no other description for what is happening other than war crime and genocide.   Israel is technically the occupying force on Gaza and as such is duty bound to protect civilians.   Complet

    The scenes in Gaza look like the aftermath of a nuclear bomb, utter devastation. The Israelis telling people to go back to their homes in northern Gaza as its "safe", what are they supposed to go back

    Reported on the BBC too... An air strike on an army camp has killed three soldiers, the Syrian government says, blaming the US-led coalition for the attack. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-

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    Posted
  • Location: 4 miles north of Durham City
  • Location: 4 miles north of Durham City

    OPEC’s oil exports fell 2 percent in December from a month earlier as Saudi Arabia, the world’s largest exporter, reported a decrease of 4.9 percent.

    Total exports by the Organization of Petroleum Exporting Countries, excluding Algeria and the United Arab Emirates, fell by 387,000 barrels a day to 19.4 million barrels a day, the Joint Data Initiative website, which compiles data supplied by governments in an attempt to improve transparency, showed today.

    Saudi Arabia’s exports fell to 6.05 million barrels a day in December from 6.36 million in November even as Saudi production rose to a two-year high of 8.37 million barrels a day, JODI said.

    “This is a huge difference,†said John Sfakianakis, Chief Economist at Riyadh-based Banque Saudi Fransi, noting the 2.32 million barrel per day difference between what Saudi Arabia produced and its exports.

    http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-02-19/opec-s-december-oil-exports-fall-2-as-shipments-from-saudia-arabia-drop.html

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    Posted
  • Location: Sheffield South Yorkshire 160M Powering the Sheffield Shield
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  • Location: Sheffield South Yorkshire 160M Powering the Sheffield Shield

    Gaddafi having a long rant promising more violence looks like a long bloodbath coming up.

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    Posted
  • Location: Kingsteignton, Devon
  • Weather Preferences: Cold in winter, snow, frost but warm summers please
  • Location: Kingsteignton, Devon

    British PM securing arms deals in the wrong place at the wrong time - activist

    http://rt.com/news/b...rms-wrong-tour/

    It's one of the things we are very good at, I see no reason to police the morals of others. After all, guns don't kill, people do.

    Edited by Dartmoor_Matt
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    Posted
  • Location: 4 miles north of Durham City
  • Location: 4 miles north of Durham City

    It's one of the things we are very good at, I see no reason to police the morals of others. After all, guns don't kill, people do.

    I say we end arms-sales to such regimes.

    I think banks should stop using our money to do the same.

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  • Location: Kingsteignton, Devon
  • Weather Preferences: Cold in winter, snow, frost but warm summers please
  • Location: Kingsteignton, Devon

    I say we end arms-sales to such regimes.

    I think banks should stop using our money to do the same.

    If we don't sell them, someone else will. So we may as well get the profit.

    As for the banks, give it up. It's old news now, time has moved on and so should the bashing.

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    Posted
  • Location: 4 miles north of Durham City
  • Location: 4 miles north of Durham City

    Here's the multi-trillion dollar question.....

    Is the Iranian government crazy enough to close the Strait Of Hormuz?

    If we don't sell them, someone else will. So we may as well get the profit.

    As for the banks, give it up. It's old news now, time has moved on and so should the bashing.

    Your ignorance is severe. Your lack of care for human life, is also very dissapointing.

    Virtually everybody in the UK and the USA is talking about two choices. Either more cuts, or more borrowing. But seemingly nobody is talking about the central issue here:- LEVERAGE FRAUD. Why are there no calls for prosecutions? Why are there no calls for monetary reform?

    The Bank Of International Settlements values outstanding derivatives at over $1.2 QUADRILLION dollars. 20 times the size of the world economy. The amount of increasingly complex derivatives (and associated debt) has skyrocketed in the past few decades. But why? WHERE is the energy/collateral or the real capital to back this up? This is blatant fraud and it constitutes crushing risk. Hardly anybody in the media is speaking on or focussing on this.

    Try this for starters:-

    http://www.ianfraser...-by-sociopaths/

    regarding derivatives, check this

    http://economicedge....lion-up-22.html

    And this:-

    "Twenty years ago, the total notional sum of derivatives in the entire world was close to zero. At least that is the impression you get from looking at a chart showing the growth of derivatives in the years since. From nothing, the global supply of derivatives rose faster than the Nasdaq, faster than oil, faster even than prices of Mayfair flats. Other market bubbles were like soap bubbles compared to the Hindenburg of derivatives. The latest estimates judge it to be worth some $236 trillion – or about eight times the GDP of the entire planet. In other words, it is a bubble larger than the world itself."

    http://www.moneyweek...-of-all-bubbles

    (this was in 2007)

    Edited by PersianPaladin
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    Posted
  • Location: Sheffield South Yorkshire 160M Powering the Sheffield Shield
  • Weather Preferences: Any Extreme
  • Location: Sheffield South Yorkshire 160M Powering the Sheffield Shield

    Actually PP Dartmoor is right. China would step into the breech without any hesitation. So perhaps your OTT with your claim of ignorance. The same with sanctions which also rarely work due to back door deals to the regimes who carry on happily while the people suffer even more.

    The last part of your post belongs in another thread not this one.

    Also are protests still going on in Iran or have they settled down again.

    Edited by The PIT
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    Posted
  • Location: Louth, Lincolnshire
  • Weather Preferences: Misty Autumn days and foggy nights
  • Location: Louth, Lincolnshire

    It's one of the things we are very good at, I see no reason to police the morals of others. After all, guns don't kill, people do.

    Yeah, but they rarely kill as many with only their bare hands. The real issue around arms sales is that it's impossible to control, no matter how pure your morals. Ollie North showed that. We sell hawk jets to, lets say, Malaysia, who don't have a particularly bad HR record. They use them for a bit and decide to upgrade to something newer and more shiny - so they sell them to say Indonesia, who's HR record is more than a bit spotty. We built them, but there they are bombing villages in Indonesia. Are we any more or less complicit because they went through a 3rd party? the poor souls on the business end probably don't care - entirely hypothetical scenario, but one which plays out time and time again across the international arms trade. Believe me, if you think we're bad, look at some of the other countries with a major arms industry. They were French jets, bought directly from France, that defected to Malta rather than bomb their own cities.

    I see that we've dispatched HMS Cumberland to evacuate UK Nationals - I'm not sure how if Tripoli port is closed (and they'd never let a UK warship dock anyway) and there's a no-fly zone, but I suppose it's as much for show as for any other reason.

    Edited by Just Before Dawn
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  • Location: Sheffield South Yorkshire 160M Powering the Sheffield Shield
  • Weather Preferences: Any Extreme
  • Location: Sheffield South Yorkshire 160M Powering the Sheffield Shield

    Yeah, but they rarely kill as many with only their bare hands. The real issue around arms sales is that it's impossible to control, no matter how pure your morals. Ollie North showed that.

    I see that we've dispatched HMS Cumberland to evacuate UK Nationals - I'm not sure how if Tripoli port is closed (and they'd never let a UK warship dock anyway) and there's a no-fly zone, but I suppose it's as much for show as for any other reason.

    I thought they were talking about a no fly zone in the UN. Out of interest who's going to enforce it???

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    Posted
  • Location: 4 miles north of Durham City
  • Location: 4 miles north of Durham City

    Actually PP Dartmoor is right. China would step into the breech without any hesitation. So perhaps your OTT with your claim of ignorance. The same with sanctions which also rarely work due to back door deals to the regimes who carry on happily while the people suffer even more.

    The last part of your post belongs in another thread not this one.

    Also are protests still going on in Iran or have they settled down again.

    Don't partake in evil. Don't get involved in it.

    I refuse to support the sale of arms to such regimes. Anybody who does is simply morally repugnant.

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    Posted
  • Location: Sheffield South Yorkshire 160M Powering the Sheffield Shield
  • Weather Preferences: Any Extreme
  • Location: Sheffield South Yorkshire 160M Powering the Sheffield Shield

    Don't partake in evil. Don't get involved in it.

    I refuse to support the sale of arms to such regimes. Anybody who does is simply morally repugnant.

    Well as long as you pay taxes you are doing so however much you don't believe in it. It's okay saying don't sell arms to such regimes what happens when a good regime gets overthrown the weapons get into the hands of the bad guys.

    I don't support the arms trade full stop but it will happen regardless of my views.

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    Posted
  • Location: Kingsteignton, Devon
  • Weather Preferences: Cold in winter, snow, frost but warm summers please
  • Location: Kingsteignton, Devon

    Don't partake in evil. Don't get involved in it.

    I refuse to support the sale of arms to such regimes. Anybody who does is simply morally repugnant.

    PP, my morals are just fine thanks, there has been and always will be an arms trade. I am not going to lose any sleep over something I have no control over.

    As Pit said, if UK PLC doesn't sell them, then China, Russia or any host of other countries will... probably with even less discretion.

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    Posted
  • Location: Louth, Lincolnshire
  • Weather Preferences: Misty Autumn days and foggy nights
  • Location: Louth, Lincolnshire

    I thought they were talking about a no fly zone in the UN. Out of interest who's going to enforce it???

    Al Jazeera were reporting that Libya themselves were proposing it - presumably they meant that it would be a no-fly zone for everyone except their own Mirages and MiGs. I suppose they may have posted a warning to commercial traffic about ongoing 'combat' operations - I saw an unsubstatiated report on the Beeb that Benghazi airport runway had been damaged so that might have also been an issue. There certainly seems to be some issue - AFP reporting that a French plane flying in to evacuate French Citizens has been unable to land in Tripoli.

    Edited by Just Before Dawn
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  • Location: Bramley, Hampshire, 70m asl
  • Location: Bramley, Hampshire, 70m asl

    I've just been watching a statement made by the UN Security council about Libya.

    Why do we bother funding this pointless organisation??...fudge, weak words and no action.

    ....I won't even get on to the views/statements of the Arab League or African Union.

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  • Location: Louth, Lincolnshire
  • Weather Preferences: Misty Autumn days and foggy nights
  • Location: Louth, Lincolnshire

    It seems that Libya is heading for a full-blown civil war - Al Jazeera reporting 'local sources' saying that the Warfala tribe has 'declared war' against Quaddafi - that's nearly 20% of the population. Also internet buzz that the Tuareg tribes from south are also mobilising.

    If this is true, then the pressure on the UN to act will become overwhelming - no-one will be prepared to accept the possibility of a second Rwanda.

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  • Location: Sheffield South Yorkshire 160M Powering the Sheffield Shield
  • Weather Preferences: Any Extreme
  • Location: Sheffield South Yorkshire 160M Powering the Sheffield Shield

    I've just been watching a statement made by the UN Security council about Libya.

    Why do we bother funding this pointless organisation??...fudge, weak words and no action.

    ....I won't even get on to the views/statements of the Arab League or African Union.

    Imagine if was Israel they'd be frothing at the mouth and ready too nuke.

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    Posted
  • Location: Sheffield South Yorkshire 160M Powering the Sheffield Shield
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  • Location: Sheffield South Yorkshire 160M Powering the Sheffield Shield

    Tory Government getting slammed for failing to react quickly enough to get British nationals out.

    UN slammed for not doing anything.

    Oil workers being held in the desert camps by gunman.

    Not good.

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    Posted
  • Location: Camborne
  • Location: Camborne

    Imagine if was Israel they'd be frothing at the mouth and ready too nuke.

    To the best of my recollection the UN has never been particularly helpful to Israel since the making of the modern Middle East. Even when they were surrounded by the marauding hordes bent on annhiilation with weaons supplied by the Soviet Union. To put this in perspective in 1964 the Soviets had invested massively in the Middle East, about $2 billion in military aid alone-1 ,700 tanks, 2,400 artillery pieces, 500 jets, and 1,400 advisers-since 1956, some 43 percent of it to Egypt. Nasser, "a noncapitalist revolutionary democrat," in Soviet parlance, was seen as the Kremlin's main hope for defeating the West in the aftermath of the Cuban missile debacle. Moscow would not be disappointed. While warfare raged in Southeast Asia, NATO was outflanked from the south and its oil supply threatened by pro-Soviet Arab regimes. In return for these services, Nasser and 'Amer were in 1964 both designated Heroes of the Soviet Union, an award never before granted to foreigners. And now of course we have Russia supporting Iran.

    Many Arab states went through this process in the 50s, one example being Iraq's Hashimite king Faisal, dismembered by a savage Baghdad mob in 1958, and there are many others. It's a very complicated subject but hopefully some good will emerge.

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    Posted
  • Location: Sheffield South Yorkshire 160M Powering the Sheffield Shield
  • Weather Preferences: Any Extreme
  • Location: Sheffield South Yorkshire 160M Powering the Sheffield Shield

    Foreign office telling us porkies about flights to Libya. Morning flight never took off due to a fault. However people who are trapped won't be able to make it to the airport.

    Sounds like one women from the embassy at Tripoli airport helping the Brits. Disgraceful Mr Cameron perhaps we ought to cut the foreign office as part of the spending cuts. Perhaps instead of flying around selling arms he should be thinking about getting our people out and then kicking the UN's ass.

    Edited by The PIT
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    Posted
  • Location: Bramley, Hampshire, 70m asl
  • Location: Bramley, Hampshire, 70m asl

    Foreign office telling us porkies about flights to Libya. Morning flight never took off due to a fault. However people who are trapped won't be able to make it to the airport.

    Sounds like one women from the embassy at Tripoli airport helping the Brits. Disgraceful Mr Cameron perhaps we ought to cut the foreign office as part of the spending cuts. Perhaps instead of flying around selling arms he should be thinking about getting our people out and then kicking the UN's ass.

    Totally agree Pit ...it's pathetic, meanwhile Cameron is swanning around flogging guns to the needy!!

    Other countries such as the France, Italy, Turkey etc can manage to arrange evacuation flights.

    Meanwhile the Brits are stranded while the evacuation flight, no doubt a clapped out dakota, is sat at Gatwick...broken and the couple of military planes you've got left are busy on the Afghan run!

    Really sad!!

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    Posted
  • Location: Louth, Lincolnshire
  • Weather Preferences: Misty Autumn days and foggy nights
  • Location: Louth, Lincolnshire

    The UN aren't the short-term answer - they'll agree a statement eventually, but getting a resolution for military action takes forever to get through the security council. Also, where do the forces come from, what are the military rules of engagement - will the UN just be enforcing a no-fly zone (which will help a little or not much) or will they be putting troops on the ground? If it's the latter, then they need to understand that they might be in there for the long-term - UN forces have been in Cyprus for 37 years, and in Kashmir for 61 years. Then they've got to be staged somewhere and their support and logistics put in place - it the UN 6 months to get this done before the liberation in Kuwait in 1991. In this situation I doubt you'll even get a statement released until virtually all foreign nationals are out - Quaddafi is clearly prepared to kill pretty much anyone to stay in power - human shields spring to mind.The greatest chance for military intervention is if a large group of foreign nationals are placed in significant threat, I'd think. Situations like this are exactly why the US have their Ranger Battalions, the French have the Foreign Legion and we have 1st Special Forces Battalion and 16 Air Assault Brigade.

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    Posted
  • Location: Carryduff, County Down 420ft ASL
  • Location: Carryduff, County Down 420ft ASL

    Where is Private Fraser..Don't panic, Don't panic.

    Hague was on ITV news earlier, he was absolutely slaughtered. If we needed any further proof that Britain is finished as a world power, this is it.

    Why haven't we sent military transports? Do we have any left to send?

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