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The Middle East...where Are Events Taking Us?


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There is no other description for what is happening other than war crime and genocide.   Israel is technically the occupying force on Gaza and as such is duty bound to protect civilians.   Complet

The scenes in Gaza look like the aftermath of a nuclear bomb, utter devastation. The Israelis telling people to go back to their homes in northern Gaza as its "safe", what are they supposed to go back

Reported on the BBC too... An air strike on an army camp has killed three soldiers, the Syrian government says, blaming the US-led coalition for the attack. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-

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Posted
  • Location: Ponteland
  • Location: Ponteland

    Escalation is always going to be the danger of any intervention. These missiles are under the control of Iranian technicians.

    Syria Moving Scuds to Israel, Turkey Borders – Report

    Jordanian news site says western spy satellites show hundreds of Scud launchers moving south and north.

    Jordanian news site Ahbar Baladna reports that western spy satellites have recently spotted movements of Syrian heavy missile launchers northward and southward, toward Syria's borders with Turkey and Israel.

    The site says hundreds of high-caliber launchers are being moved, and that these could only be long range Scud missile launchers.

    Syria has threatened in the past that in the event of foreign military intervention on its soil, it will not hesitate to fire missiles at Israel and Turkey in order to ignite a large scale regional war.

    Turkish and French officials said ten days ago they were mulling a potential military intervention in Syria, where civil war has been raging for 14 months.

    “In the face of developments in Syria, we are taking into consideration any kind of possibility in line with our national security and interests,†Turkish foreign minister Ahmet Davutoglu told parliament during a briefing to lawmakers.

    http://www.israelnat...05#.T9Rhw1Jjnhc

    It is very interesting to first read the Israeli news and then the stuff put out by Press TV-In my view the Iranian so called news is sheer propaganda and the Israeli news makes much more sense but be that as it may the situation is being fanned by what is happening in Syria.We can but hope that the problem is solved without a major conflagration.
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  • Location: Leeds/Bradford border, 185 metres above sea level, around 600 feet
  • Location: Leeds/Bradford border, 185 metres above sea level, around 600 feet

    What an idiot Assad is.

    When you consider that Isreal has a nasty habit of kicking the crap out of anybody it likes and that Turkey has a hefty military budget and has EU level technology the chances of Syria surviving a month are doubtful.

    Bring on the war, remove the despot.

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    What an idiot Assad is.

    When you consider that Isreal has a nasty habit of kicking the crap out of anybody it likes and that Turkey has a hefty military budget and has EU level technology the chances of Syria surviving a month are doubtful.

    Bring on the war, remove the despot.

    He does remind me of the idiot of a defence minister in Saddam Hussain's Iraq who kept denying the presence of US troops when they were virtually at his back door.

    As for going to war against Syria - bad idea - we've meddled too much in middle east affairs as it is and stoked up enough ill feeling against the west in the Arab world - it can only serve as a recruiting sergeant for more people intent on wearing funny vests.

    The only thing we can really do is to give covert assistance along with the current sanctions, then it is up to the people and their immediate neighbours to fight this battle.

    I am fairly convinced that the normal Arab in the street is not too different to ourselves and would like nothing better than to work and bring his family up in peace and until he and his like recognise the senselessness of the extremist's position and does something about it the situation, if anything will worsen, for if you pull down one despot another will take his place.

    What we really need is good well balanced education for all in that area - so much of the trouble has been caused by the Mullahs feeding the brains of the ignorant, naive and easily impressed with perverted ideals.

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  • Location: Camborne
  • Location: Camborne

    I am fairly convinced that the normal Arab in the street is not too different to ourselves and would like nothing better than to work and bring his family up in peace and until he and his like recognise the senselessness of the extremist's position and does something about it the situation, if anything will worsen, for if you pull down one despot another will take his place.

    That doesn't really explain the internecine strife between Shiits and Sunnis, not to mention other Muslem groups. No doubt this wil cause problems in Iraq with a little outside help from Iran.

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  • Location: Camborne
  • Location: Camborne

    When you consider that Isreal has a nasty habit of kicking the crap out of anybody it likes and that Turkey has a hefty military budget and has EU level technology the chances of Syria surviving a month are doubtful.

    My memory must be playng me up because i Seem to recollect that over many years many Arab countries, with the aid of the Soviets, have had a nasty habit of trying to annihilate Israel and nearly succeeding on one occasion. The fact that they get a bit twitchy surrounded by those who wish them dead is understandable but who exactly have they kicked the crap out of without provocation?

    Edited by Weather Ship
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    That doesn't really explain the internecine strife between Shiits and Sunnis, not to mention other Muslem groups. No doubt this wil cause problems in Iraq with a little outside help from Iran.

    This is where a well rounded education comes in - this strife has been in existence since the first generation or so after Mohammed and is still as intense as were the differences between the Catholics and the Protestants here and in Europe some 300 to 400 years ago when people with differences of opinions were burnt at the stake.

    As far as I am aware the two sides only ever became united when fighting the crusaders under the leadership of Saladin.

    Fortunately we have overcome these differences to a large extent and I believe education has had a lot to do with this and believe we should find ways of encouraging the Arabs to go down the same route.

    As things stand at the moment it is a continual 4 sided battle between the shiites on one hand and the sunnis on the other but both against the west and Israel.

    We really need peoples' minds to be broadened to encompass mankind and the world as whole. To continue along our present lines will cause the situation to continue to escalate and opinions to polorise even further increasing the remoteness of any sort of peace settlement to vitually nil.

    Edited by mike Meehan
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    Posted
  • Location: Camborne
  • Location: Camborne

    This is where a well rounded education comes in - this strife has been in existence since the first generation or so after Mohammed and is still as intense as were the differences between the Catholics and the Protestants here and in Europe some 300 to 400 years ago when people with differences of opinions were burnt at the stake.

    As far as I am aware the two sides only ever became united when fighting the crusaders under the leadership of Saladin.

    Fortunately we have overcome these differences to a large extent and I believe education has had a lot to do with this and believe we should find ways of encouraging the Arabs to go down the same route.

    I broadly agree with you Mike although I think it's slightly more complex than that. For many centuries, up to around the 14th, the Islamic world was arguable the most advanced in the world and without recourse to books there was little what we see today. They were also quite tolerant of other religiouns. After that it was downhill and extremism within groups starting taking over at the expence of Islamic science and collective objectives. I don't think our encouragement would be that welcome or helpful but at the end of the day I believe the younger better educated (once they are allowed to be in some countries) will bring about change.

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  • Location: Near Lauder, SE Scotland, 175 m asl
  • Location: Near Lauder, SE Scotland, 175 m asl

    They were also quite tolerant of other religiouns.

    I have a number of good friends and colleagues from Iran (Shia mainly). They have large christian and jewish communities which live there contentedly. In fact a lot of the Jewish community there are not overly happy about zionism and the problems it has caused.

    My office mate has a liking for pork and often pops into the christian shops in Iran to pick some up (with his most 'honestly I'm a christian' smile on his face). I have recently introduced him to the heaven that is parma ham....

    Incidentally, as an expert in computers/microelectronics, he's well impressed with the US cyber attack on the centrifuges. He hopes the US succeeds, as do most iranians.

    Edited by scottish skier
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    Posted
  • Location: Camborne
  • Location: Camborne

    Good to hear SS. At least he doesn't have to search for a Halal butcher in Edinbugh to pick up his Haggis. Not too sure about the cyber attacks but that's another thread.

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  • Location: Near Lauder, SE Scotland, 175 m asl
  • Location: Near Lauder, SE Scotland, 175 m asl

    . Not too sure about the cyber attacks but that's another thread.

    Having read about the stuxnet/flame thingy and how the US was responsible I raised that subject with him today (he was down helping me build walls in the garden). I know he does not support the Iranian government, but I had wondered how he would feel about such an act, i.e. what was really an act of war.

    He replied that his government and the US were already at war - this was just another battle. He hoped his government would lose. Putting aside the problems they are causing for Iranians internationally, the huge amounts of money being spent on the nuclear programme was for him a massive waste when so many were suffering poverty in his country.

    EDIT, as for the Halal thingy - he has trusted my word in that all food and drink in Scotland is halal, including malt whisky and bacon rolls.

    Edited by scottish skier
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    Posted
  • Location: Camborne
  • Location: Camborne

    I can well appreciate his point regarding the nuclear programme. There should be no need for poverty in Iran and they certainly don't need nuclear power for domestic use. But as you know, better than I with the knowledge of your Iranian colleagues, the logistics of government in Iran are somewhat complicated but the ultimate power lies with the theocracy.

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  • Location: Beccles, Suffolk.
  • Weather Preferences: Thunder, snow, heat, sunshine...
  • Location: Beccles, Suffolk.

    I have a number of good friends and colleagues from Iran (Shia mainly). They have large christian and jewish communities which live there contentedly. In fact a lot of the Jewish community there are not overly happy about zionism and the problems it has caused.

    My office mate has a liking for pork and often pops into the christian shops in Iran to pick some up (with his most 'honestly I'm a christian' smile on his face). I have recently introduced him to the heaven that is parma ham....

    Incidentally, as an expert in computers/microelectronics, he's well impressed with the US cyber attack on the centrifuges. He hopes the US succeeds, as do most iranians.

    You raise a very good point there, SS...In most 'ordinary' circumstances people of all faiths will quite happily coexist. It's only when zealots start manipulating things, that events seem to turn nasty. It's like that old chestnut 'if nobody (meaning normal folk) ever wants wars, why do so many wars keep happening?'

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    I broadly agree with you Mike although I think it's slightly more complex than that. For many centuries, up to around the 14th, the Islamic world was arguable the most advanced in the world and without recourse to books there was little what we see today. They were also quite tolerant of other religiouns. After that it was downhill and extremism within groups starting taking over at the expence of Islamic science and collective objectives. I don't think our encouragement would be that welcome or helpful but at the end of the day I believe the younger better educated (once they are allowed to be in some countries) will bring about change.

    Yes WS, I agree with what you say here, in fact the Renaissance was kickstarted by the Moslems and gathered apace through the invention of the printing press. It was much easier to set up a press using western characters rather than eastern characters so as a result books became cheaper and easier to produce meaning that knowlege became more widely spread in the west but remained more limited in the Islamic world. However we do have to thank our eastern brethren for their numerical system which is so much easier than the Roman system which was very cumbersome. Not entirely sure though when this did come about.

    I believe the seeds of change have already been sown and with increased exposure to the world media and education things will gradually change but it is likely to take several generations for it to come to fruition.

    We need to interfere as little as possible and let them come round in their own time otherwise we merely end up pouring petrol on fire.

    A bit like bringing kids up really, there has to be a time when they need to find out for themselves.

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    Posted
  • Location: Newcastle Upon Tyne (Spital Tongues)
  • Weather Preferences: Cold, Snow, Windstorms and Thunderstorms
  • Location: Newcastle Upon Tyne (Spital Tongues)

    Heavy shelling and fighting in Homs at the moment.

    Live webcam here http://bambuser.com/v/2735300

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  • Location: ANYWHERE BUT HERE
  • Weather Preferences: ALL WEATHER, NOT THE PETTY POLITICS OF MODS IN THIS SITE
  • Location: ANYWHERE BUT HERE

    I still maintain this is leading to war :-(

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    I still maintain this is leading to war :-(

    If it is leading to war we would be much better keeping out of it - until we allow the middle eastern peoples to solve their own destiny without western interference the problems, theirs and ours, will continue to multiply.

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  • Location: Leeds/Bradford border, 185 metres above sea level, around 600 feet
  • Location: Leeds/Bradford border, 185 metres above sea level, around 600 feet

    Completely disagree Mike, if the cost of saving the Syrian people (and a large number are angry that we have failed to act) is a few angry terrorists then so be it.

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    Completely disagree Mike, if the cost of saving the Syrian people (and a large number are angry that we have failed to act) is a few angry terrorists then so be it.

    SB, we really must learn from history.

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  • Location: Newcastle Upon Tyne (Spital Tongues)
  • Weather Preferences: Cold, Snow, Windstorms and Thunderstorms
  • Location: Newcastle Upon Tyne (Spital Tongues)

    Much of what's going on in Syria has already been fuelled by foreign interests, the head of the UN Observer mission has said so, though he didn't go as far as to say western nations were involved.

    Civil wars are rarely truly civil, Syria is definitely not exempt from this.

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    Posted
  • Location: Camborne
  • Location: Camborne

    I'm not sure I agree with this. It's basically a Sunni revolt and historically they haven't proved to be very tolerant towards others so in some respects I think Russia correct. But in no way should we interfere.

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    Posted
  • Location: Liverpool
  • Location: Liverpool

    Completely disagree Mike, if the cost of saving the Syrian people (and a large number are angry that we have failed to act) is a few angry terrorists then so be it.

    It depends what you mean by saving. Any military intervention will lead to loss of life, and Mike has a point, if the west interferes then it only complicates things if we try and enforce our idea of government, and it then breeds hatred of the west when things go wrong.

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    It depends what you mean by saving. Any military intervention will lead to loss of life, and Mike has a point, if the west interferes then it only complicates things if we try and enforce our idea of government, and it then breeds hatred of the west when things go wrong.

    Collateral damage for one - with the best intentions, the best intelligence and the best execution of a plan it's something which can never be completely ruled out, plus people can resent be told what to do even when the advice is well meaning - it's little wonder that missionaries were put in stew pots at times.

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  • Location: Leeds/Bradford border, 185 metres above sea level, around 600 feet
  • Location: Leeds/Bradford border, 185 metres above sea level, around 600 feet

    SB, we really must learn from history.

    Learn what, Iraq is now prospering and thankful, most Libyans love the fact that we saved them and while Afghanistan has dragged out too long most Afghans support what we have done.

    I will never accept tyranny of the minority be it from a dictator or minority of ctizens, as a member of the UNSC will a fully capable military and support from other nations (the French and Turks are more than willing) we should not stand by and allow genocide.

    Can you really say that a few angry people are reason enough to allow genocide.

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  • Location: Leeds/Bradford border, 185 metres above sea level, around 600 feet
  • Location: Leeds/Bradford border, 185 metres above sea level, around 600 feet

    It depends what you mean by saving. Any military intervention will lead to loss of life, and Mike has a point, if the west interferes then it only complicates things if we try and enforce our idea of government, and it then breeds hatred of the west when things go wrong.

    Acceptable losses, if a million will benefit then we should sacrifice 10,000.

    Iraq and Libya seem fine enough.

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