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The Middle East...where Are Events Taking Us?


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There is no other description for what is happening other than war crime and genocide.   Israel is technically the occupying force on Gaza and as such is duty bound to protect civilians.   Complet

The scenes in Gaza look like the aftermath of a nuclear bomb, utter devastation. The Israelis telling people to go back to their homes in northern Gaza as its "safe", what are they supposed to go back

Reported on the BBC too... An air strike on an army camp has killed three soldiers, the Syrian government says, blaming the US-led coalition for the attack. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-

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Posted
  • Location: Devizes Wiltshire
  • Location: Devizes Wiltshire

    What irony that the colonel who called the rebels "rats" was found cowering in a sewer.

    he was not he was captured alive after a nato airstrike, then murdered... theres a video ofit

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    What irony that the colonel who called the rebels "rats" was found cowering in a sewer.

    Poetic justice?

    That would have been Elvis!

    No you are getting mixed up with Lord Lucan and ShergarPosted Image

    Edited by mike Meehan
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    Posted
  • Location: Camborne
  • Location: Camborne

    Once again WS, when someone can come up with a plan of exactly how NATO air power can assist in Syria, we should all be willing to listen. Until then, there's no point sitting back & saying we SHOULD be doing something militarily, when it's logistically impossible & the Syrian protestors themselves, state specifically, they don't want outside intervention.

    I would normally agree, but how can you put yourself in the position of the people who were there? One lesson life has taught me, is not to judge others by my standards, when I have no concept of what they have gone through.

    I wasn't suggesting for one moment that we should be intervening in Syria just pondering on what the people might think. And there is no point in shouting. Now the Arab Spring................I wonder.

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    Posted
  • Location: Irlam
  • Location: Irlam

    Mustn't forget that according to the galloping old Etonian we had to be thankful for their help in 1940 as well.

    It depends on what you mean by help? Didn't FDR call the USA to be the "arsenal of Democracy" in one of his fireside chats at the end of 1940 to sell Lend-Lease to the American public?

    Wasn't the 50 destroyers for 99 year bases lease in 1940?

    Edited by Mr_Data
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    Posted
  • Location: Camborne
  • Location: Camborne

    It depends on what you mean by help? Didn't FDR call the USA to be the "arsenal of Democracy" in one of his fireside chats at the end of 1940 to sell Lend-Lease to the American public?

    Wasn't the 50 destroyers for 99 year bases lease in 1940?

    Quite true. Perhaps I should been more precise. I believe his exact comment was that that the UK was a 'junior partner' to America in 1940.

    Edited by weather ship
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    Posted
  • Location: Savoy Circus W10 / W3
  • Location: Savoy Circus W10 / W3

    Iraq is a basket case, Afghanistan is a basket case, Libya is a basket case... Egypt is a basket case... Palestine is a basket case... need I go on...

    Has the primary concern in any of these areas been the welfare of the people who live there - no. Do I have any hope that things will improve - no.

    Are we creating the neccessary preconditions to justify a world war if things get so bad that we need one - yes.

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    Posted
  • Location: Powys Mid Wales borders.
  • Location: Powys Mid Wales borders.

    he was not he was captured alive after a nato airstrike, then murdered... theres a video ofit

    Theres even more to this yet the devil`s in the detail.

    16 things Libya won`t be seeing again.

    http://www.disinfo.com/2011/10/16-things-libya-will-never-see-again/

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    Posted
  • Location: Sheffield South Yorkshire 160M Powering the Sheffield Shield
  • Weather Preferences: Any Extreme
  • Location: Sheffield South Yorkshire 160M Powering the Sheffield Shield

    Well the RAF are back home. The mission of regime change a success although it's far to early say that really.

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    Posted
  • Location: Camborne
  • Location: Camborne

    Nowhere until the cause is irradicated.

    Israeli Drone Strike Kills Militants in Southern Gaza

    GAZA — Israeli airstrikes killed seven Palestinian members of Islamic Jihad’s armed wing in southern Gaza on Saturday, according to the militant group, and Gaza militants fired salvos of rockets at cities in southern Israel, killing one Israeli man and wounding at least two others in a sudden escalation of cross-border violence.

    The Israeli military said that it had first hit a terrorist squad that was preparing to fire long-range rockets into Israel early Saturday, and that the same squad had been responsible for firing a rocket that struck late Wednesday near the Israeli port city of Ashdod.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2011/10/30/world/middleeast/israeli-drone-strike-kills-militants-in-gaza.html?hp

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  • Location: Sheffield South Yorkshire 160M Powering the Sheffield Shield
  • Weather Preferences: Any Extreme
  • Location: Sheffield South Yorkshire 160M Powering the Sheffield Shield

    Shocking that they killed terrorists firing rockets into Israel.

    More seriously Syria continues attacks on it's own civilians and tells the West to take a long walk. Strangely little response about the people being targeted while they go to prayer. If that was the west that did that the entire world would be up in arms.

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    • 2 weeks later...
    Posted
  • Location: Sheffield South Yorkshire 160M Powering the Sheffield Shield
  • Weather Preferences: Any Extreme
  • Location: Sheffield South Yorkshire 160M Powering the Sheffield Shield

    Looking increasingly like Syria will be next for military action. If the arab league asks for it I wonder how the west will react.

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    Posted
  • Location: Near Lauder, SE Scotland, 175 m asl
  • Location: Near Lauder, SE Scotland, 175 m asl

    Looking increasingly like Syria will be next for military action. If the arab league asks for it I wonder how the west will react.

    While Syria has some small known oil reserves, it is largely closed shop so little knowledge in terms of whether there is anything more than that. As the land area is realtively small, even with some decent 'undiscovereds', total volumes would not be huge.

    So I imagine there'll be little interest from the 'West' on this; mantra is generally that it's not worth 'saving lives' or 'bringing democracy' unless there's some decent oil $ in it.

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    Posted
  • Location: Camborne
  • Location: Camborne

    Firstly some reaction to the recent IAEA report from the China Post.

    UNITED NATIONS -- The International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA) has warned that the Islamic Republic of Iran is developing the scientific technology needed to create a nuclear weapon.

    The U.N. watchdog agency presented a report at the organization's Vienna headquarters which clearly states that Teheran appears to have conducted research “specific to nuclear weapons development†such as work on miniaturized warheads as well as running computer simulations on atomic explosions.

    http://www.chinapost.com.tw/commentary/the-china-post/john-metzler/2011/11/15/322980/IAEA-report.htm

    Secondly there is an article in the Times today by Tzipl Livni who is the leader of Kadima, the main opposition party in Iseael, that broadly speaking coincides with my thiking ob the subject taking into account her superior knowledge. © The Times.

    Nuclear Iran would wreck the peace process

    The world must not allow the extremists in Tehran to undermine the shift to democracy

    So now the International Atomic EnergyAgency has confirmed and made formal what has been known for some time. There is “credible evidence†that the Iranian nuclear programme has military intent and that Iran is in the process of manufacturing nuclear weapons. The report details the secret acquisition of equipment and expertise and the covert testing and development sites that will provide the detonators, the warheads and the nuclear-equipped missiles needed for a bomb.

    For some, the report seems to have appeared as a dark cloud from the blue. Others see this, perversely, as a final confirmation that the world will now have to live with a nuclear Iran. Their shared failure is one of ignoring the threat — either in retrospect, or in prospect. We cannot afford this kind of failure.

    Even before it gets nuclear weapons, Iran already poses a serious threat. The Arab uprisings put the region at a crossroads. They can either move it towards democracy and moderation, or radical and extremist forces can increase their influence. Iran plays a critical role in this decision. If the Arab and Muslim states are given to believe that the world is not sufficiently determined to stop Iran, they will have to make their own reckoning with Tehran, with disastrous consequences. In the politics of the playground, if you cannot stand up to the bully, you may have no alternative but to seek his protection.

    Even before it gets nuclear weapons, Iran is a threat to the search for progress in the Israeli-Palestinian peace process, as the only chance for peace is with the moderates and the pragmatists. But through its support for Hezbollah, Hamas and Syria, Iran empowers the opponents of peace and weakens the hand of the moderates.

    Making peace will be hard enough when Israelis and Palestinians return to negotiations, as they surely must. The determination of the free world is being tested, both by the extremists who are trying to sabotage any chance of peace and by those who are willing to take calculated risks for it.

    And, underpinning all of this, and even without nuclear weapons, the Iranian regime is already one of the world’s most repressive, inhumane and illiberal. At the time when the Arab and Muslim world is deliberating over its future direction, we need to send the clearest possible message that we stand behind regimes that promote democracy and liberty, and firmly against those that deny the most basic human rights to their people. Our failure to do so is a badge of dishonour.

    Now is the time to ensure that the Iranian people know that they are not alone. Iran is a strong country, rich in natural and human resources, with an enviable history of advancing human development. It has a natural role to play in the affairs of the region and the world. Its people have suffered for too long under a repressive regime that holds basic human rights hostage to religious extremists. We know that many Iranians are desperate for change. We must make our commitment to them clear so that they hear us. ( my emphasis )

    Now is the time for the international community to stand together and confront the threat. For it is a threat to us all. As we consider how to prevent Iran from acquiring nuclear weapons, the international community needs to make it clear to Iran that all options are on the table.

    The Iranian regime, with its genocidal rhetoric and its growing military might, is not just a threat to the stability of our region. Its intentions run counter to the interests of the free world; its policies are an affront to the values of the free world.

    This is an issue that crosses party lines and states, a call to defend the values and interests that we all share. This is a time for consensus, not for division. We cannot flinch from the responsibility. The alternatives are far worse. Together, we need to send the clearest possible message to Tehran that our resolve is firm, and that we will not be deterred. The time for delay is over.

    http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/opinion/columnists/article3226640.ece

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    Posted
  • Location: Camborne
  • Location: Camborne

    While Syria has some small known oil reserves, it is largely closed shop so little knowledge in terms of whether there is anything more than that. As the land area is realtively small, even with some decent 'undiscovereds', total volumes would not be huge.

    So I imagine there'll be little interest from the 'West' on this; mantra is generally that it's not worth 'saving lives' or 'bringing democracy' unless there's some decent oil $ in it.

    I'm not sure this is necessarily about oil although it may have a slight bearing. The Arab League will have it's own agenda, led I suspect, by the worry that the unrest will spread to their own countries. Saudi Arabia for one hasn't never been a great buddy of Syria.

    Syria is a completely different kettle of fish to Libya in many ways not least the diversity of religion and ethnic minorities that exist so any insurrection has quite a few unknowables involved. Plus it has a strong military and support from Iran and Russia although the latter is not a given. So, leaving oil aside, what action could be taken by NATO that wouldn't quite possibly make the situation worse?

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    Posted
  • Location: Near Lauder, SE Scotland, 175 m asl
  • Location: Near Lauder, SE Scotland, 175 m asl

    I came across this today:

    http://www.craigmurr...to-attack-iran/

    Matthew Gould and the Plot to Attack Iran

    I've not come across Craig Murray before, but as an ex-british ambassador, I guess he deserves a listen....

    All rather murky anyway.

    Edited by scottish skier
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  • Location: 4 miles north of Durham City
  • Location: 4 miles north of Durham City

    Russian warships are due to arrive at Syrian territorial waters, a Syrian news agency said on Thursday, indicating that the move represented a clear message to the West that Moscow would resist any foreign intervention in the country's civil unrest.

    http://www.haaretz.c...ention-1.396359

    The Russian Naval base in Syria:-

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tartus#Russian_naval_base

    Edited by PersianPaladin
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  • Location: Sheffield South Yorkshire 160M Powering the Sheffield Shield
  • Weather Preferences: Any Extreme
  • Location: Sheffield South Yorkshire 160M Powering the Sheffield Shield

    End of the honeymoon period in Egypt with riots and deaths. All ideal breeding grounds for extremism. Syria sticks two fingers up at the Arab League and Turkey questions the ethics of the West comparing Syria's reaction to Libya's.

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    Posted
  • Location: ILCHESTER
  • Location: ILCHESTER

    I think events of the last 48-72hrs in Cairo has clearly demonstated that the grass is not always greener, as it ultimately will I feel in Libya too. It's all very well the west interfering and encouraging uprisings as it did in Egypt, but once the dust settled and the euphoria subsides the so called 'free' are left to consider what the new order brings/offers and, they quickly come to the conclusion the answer is not a lot. Enter the extremists, who without doubt find the dejection and feeling of utter hopelessness is the best recruiting sargant imaginable. As for Libya, this is an even bigger powder keg, the chances of pulling of their tribal factions together is less than zero. Standby for major problems there well before this time next year.

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    Posted
  • Location: Bramley, Hampshire, 70m asl
  • Location: Bramley, Hampshire, 70m asl

    I think events of the last 48-72hrs in Cairo has clearly demonstated that the grass is not always greener, as it ultimately will I feel in Libya too. It's all very well the west interfering and encouraging uprisings as it did in Egypt, but once the dust settled and the euphoria subsides the so called 'free' are left to consider what the new order brings/offers and, they quickly come to the conclusion the answer is not a lot. Enter the extremists, who without doubt find the dejection and feeling of utter hopelessness is the best recruiting sargant imaginable. As for Libya, this is an even bigger powder keg, the chances of pulling of their tribal factions together is less than zero. Standby for major problems there well before this time next year.

    Syria anyone?
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    Posted
  • Location: ILCHESTER
  • Location: ILCHESTER

    Syria anyone?

    We'll never help the people of Syria, far to much Russian involvement in the country. But remember what we are not told by our great and good.... just because we can't interfere everywhere, doesn't mean we shouldn't interfere somewhere, especially if that somewhere has oil.

    Edited by shedhead
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  • Location: Bramley, Hampshire, 70m asl
  • Location: Bramley, Hampshire, 70m asl

    We'll never help the people of Syria, far to much Russian involvement in the country. But remember what we are not told by our great and good.... just because we can't interfere everywhere, doesn't mean we shouldn't interfere somewhere, especially if that somewhere has oil.

    I wasn't so much thinking about us ....rather Turkey http://www.eurasiareview.com/22112011-arab-states-turkey-plan-no-fly-zone-over-syria/
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