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The Middle East...where Are Events Taking Us?


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Posted
  • Location: Near Lauder, SE Scotland, 175 m asl
  • Location: Near Lauder, SE Scotland, 175 m asl

    I still don't see how there can be any military intervention in Syria.

    I was in a cynical mood last night.Posted Image Yes, of course there are differences, but in the end there isn't money to be made in Syria and that's why intervention will be limited. But we all know that.

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    There is no other description for what is happening other than war crime and genocide.   Israel is technically the occupying force on Gaza and as such is duty bound to protect civilians.   Complet

    The scenes in Gaza look like the aftermath of a nuclear bomb, utter devastation. The Israelis telling people to go back to their homes in northern Gaza as its "safe", what are they supposed to go back

    Reported on the BBC too... An air strike on an army camp has killed three soldiers, the Syrian government says, blaming the US-led coalition for the attack. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-

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    Posted
  • Location: Beccles, Suffolk.
  • Weather Preferences: Thunder, snow, heat, sunshine...
  • Location: Beccles, Suffolk.

    Libya: Gaddafi Son Free As Fighting Continues

    Colonel Muammar Gaddafi's son and heir apparent Saif al Islam is free and not being detained by rebel forces, as had been claimed.

    http://news.sky.com/...rticle/16055051

    He greeted supporters and took journalists on a tour of parts of the city still under the regime's control, saying: "The situation in Libya is excellent, thank God.

    I find that interesting good read the mans clearly nuts if he thinks the people our with them and this is a trap set by them........ still took them on a tour of parts of the city... far from over!

    Aye, Cameron and Sarkosi (sp?) may have been a tad premature in their arguing over who takes which credit, yesterday? Maybe Cameron should have stayed on holiday, for a couple more days?

    PS: why should the man not spend some time, away, with his family? Yesterday's Mirror's criticism was, to my mind, uncalled-for and unfair!

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    Posted
  • Location: Eastbourne, East Sussex (work in Mid Sussex)
  • Location: Eastbourne, East Sussex (work in Mid Sussex)

    The only way overt intervention can be made in Syria is by boots on the ground and after Iraq and Afghanistan I don't think our people have any stomach for even more soldiers being repatriated in coffins and neither have I.

    True and second to that awful (and oh to regular occurrence) can we actually afford to be in the World's top 'enforcers' these days? Sorry, the days of Great Britain being 'upholders of all that is decent' in the war-torn corners of this Earth may have to come to and end - we simply do not have the financial resources for another Iraq, Afghanistan etc when our own economy is so precarious. Look after our citizens lives and their financial well-being first.
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    Posted
  • Location: Devizes Wiltshire
  • Location: Devizes Wiltshire

    Nato bombing his compound again...... have to say hats of who ever built that place there did a fine job probably was one of the best?

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    True and second to that awful (and oh to regular occurrence) can we actually afford to be in the World's top 'enforcers' these days? Sorry, the days of Great Britain being 'upholders of all that is decent' in the war-torn corners of this Earth may have to come to and end - we simply do not have the financial resources for another Iraq, Afghanistan etc when our own economy is so precarious. Look after our citizens lives and their financial well-being first.

    It would probably cost a lot less if we were to have a unified European defence force, though there would be considerable problems in setting this up, one of which is that some of the countries, such as Sweden and Ireland take stances of neutrality. Language and communications would not be so bad, English could be used since it is widely spoken throughout Europe at least as a second language.
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    Posted
  • Location: Irlam
  • Location: Irlam

    Nato bombing his compound again...... have to say hats of who ever built that place there did a fine job probably was one of the best?

    Pretty obvious it was going to be built to withstand air strikes after what happened in 1986.

    Any case, the rebels have captured the compound.

    Edited by Mr_Data
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    Posted
  • Location: 4 miles north of Durham City
  • Location: 4 miles north of Durham City

    Cameron and NATO leaders should be arrested. Who the hell gives them the right to go after Ghadaffi? The UN resolution did not sanction that at all.

    What is this? The law of the jungle?

    http://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2011/03/illegal-war/

    Edited by PersianPaladin
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    Posted
  • Location: Sheffield South Yorkshire 160M Powering the Sheffield Shield
  • Weather Preferences: Any Extreme
  • Location: Sheffield South Yorkshire 160M Powering the Sheffield Shield

    Regime change who mentioned regime changed. Syria next then....

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    Cameron and NATO leaders should be arrested. Who the hell gives them the right to go after Ghadaffi? The UN resolution did not sanction that at all.

    What is this? The law of the jungle?

    http://www.craigmurr...03/illegal-war/

    Well I suppose it is the law of the jungle if you shoot an unarmed Police Woman in a demonstration - remember WPc Yvonne Fletcher and isn't it reasonable to assume that Ghadaffi was an accessory after the fact by protecting the murderer? Also remember Lockerbie and all the members of the IRA who were supported and backed by Ghadaffi and who went to Libya to train so that they would be more efficient in killing innocent people. The UN didn't sanction that either.

    Ghadaffi has committed and assisted in the committing of numerous offences, including murder against the people of the UK, so I would have thought this would have given ample right to go after him and arrest him in order to bring him to trial. If he resists then he would have to face the consequences of such an action.

    As far as I am aware the new regime is now, or in the process of being internationally recognised; thus making Ghadaffi a fugative in respect of crimes to his own people in addition to the above.

    Edited by mike Meehan
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    Posted
  • Location: 4 miles north of Durham City
  • Location: 4 miles north of Durham City

    Well I suppose it is the law of the jungle if you shoot an unarmed Police Woman in a demonstration - remember WPc Yvonne Fletcher and isn't it reasonable to assume that Ghadaffi was an accessory after the fact by protecting the murderer? Also remember Lockerbie and all the members of the IRA who were supported and backed by Ghadaffi and who went to Libya to train so that they would be more efficient in killing innocent people. The UN didn't sanction that either.

    Ghadaffi has committed and assisted in the committing of numerous offences, including murder against the people of the UK, so I would have thought this would have given ample right to go after him and arrest him in order to bring him to trial. If he resists then he would have to face the consequences of such an action.

    As far as I am aware the new regime is now, or in the process of being internationally recognised; thus making Ghadaffi a fugative in respect of crimes to his own people in addition to the above.

    HAAA!

    From the nation that illegally invaded Iraq, and which invaded Afghanistan despite the Taliban having nothing to do with the 9/11 attacks.

    Sorry, but there are lots of ugly leaders out there, but international treaties and laws should be followed. If I do see Cameron up these parts, I'll bring a pair of handcuffs with me.

    Edited by PersianPaladin
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    Posted
  • Location: Devizes Wiltshire
  • Location: Devizes Wiltshire

    http://www.channelne...148928/1/.html?

    Battles in Tripoli as Gaddafi forces stage fightback

    TRIPOLI : Fighting raged on Wednesday near Muammar Gaddafi's Bab al-Azizya compound a day after it was captured by rebels, as loyalist troops staged a fightback.

    Rebels continue to battle Gaddafi loyalists near his compound and regime snipers have closed the road to the airport, the latest reports say.

    cant see this ending anytime soon... to many people in debt to him... and will keep fighting.

    Edited by lfcdude
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    Posted
  • Location: Sheffield South Yorkshire 160M Powering the Sheffield Shield
  • Weather Preferences: Any Extreme
  • Location: Sheffield South Yorkshire 160M Powering the Sheffield Shield

    You've got to be very careful playing the moral ground card. If you do you've got to invade nearly all of Africa China Syria and host of other countries.

    I still think this should have been sorted out by the Arab league who got rather swept away by GB USA desire for regime change.

    There's no guarantee that there's going to be a stable Government after this as the country is very tribal in it's organization.

    Until there is a stable Government I wouldn't call it a successful operation.

    Going back to Afghanistan once the USA and GB fully pull out I suspect it will quickly fall back under the rule of the Taliban or we have to go back in again.

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    HAAA!

    From the nation that illegally invaded Iraq, and which invaded Afghanistan despite the Taliban having nothing to do with the 9/11 attacks.

    Sorry, but there are lots of ugly leaders out there, but international treaties and laws should be followed. If I do see Cameron up these parts, I'll bring a pair of handcuffs with me.

    I'm not sure whether we had a mandate in 1939 from the League of Nations to declare war on Germany, yet we did and I haven't heard anybody claim that it was an unjust war.

    I wlll agree with the invasion of Iraq being illegal and had nothing to do with 9/11. I was against it from the start - Poodle Bliar used weapons of mass deception to convince parliament of the presence of weapons of mass destruction. I think Bush was trying to get one up on his Dad who did not follow on after the war to free Kuwait but then he did not have a UN mandate for that and I think that dad was a bit wiser than his son.

    As regards Afghanistan, there were a number of nations involved in the original invasion, including the Northern Alliance. Here there was a much closer link with 9/11 - Osoma Bin Laden was sheltering there as were other members of his cohorts, Al Qaedea. The Taliban were at the very least sympathetic to their cause and appear to have been taking an active role of support.

    Camps were set up there for the training of terrorists so that they could attack western peoples and property.

    This being the case I would have thought of it as self defence to try and eliminate the terrorist threat as much as possible. I haven't heard anybody suggest that this war apart from yourself that this war was illegal.

    Likewise until a few years ago Libya was a training ground for terrorists until Ghadiffi tried to kiss and make up to the West in recent years. However his own people rose against him and NATO gave what support them they could without putting boots on the ground in what was considered by all to be a justified insurrection.

    Now Ghadiffi stands as a criminal wanted not only for crimes against his own people but numerous other crimes against the UK and the USA in involvement in the killing of their citizens.

    At present the Libyan law under the Ghadaffi regime would appear to be suspended and any new law by the future new regime is yet to be put in place, so there is a bit of a vacuum here at present but at the same time there is the universal law held by the UN relating to crimes against humanity.

    So, considering all the circumstances what do you expect us to do? Allow him to escape, gather his forces and regroup to continue the war, as Napolean

    did in 1815, and cause further bloodshed which could be unnecessary, or to continue to pursue him so he could be brought to justice and allow this area to get back to normality as quickly as possible?

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    Posted
  • Location: Devizes Wiltshire
  • Location: Devizes Wiltshire

    Syria is a joke.. should be sorted.. 10 of thousand die? and in Tripoli .. its ok nato killed 10 of thousends of gadffies surporters protecting the population? as a sky!!! reporter said.. yes sky!! why aint loads out in Tripoli surporting rebels.. yes you welcome the force coming in so u don't get killed... where there all gone since then? clearly dont support it our to scared? im going with dont support it... mind u i dont me self.. i think its unjust and wrong.. and governments our a joke.. but yeah... should leave them to there self to sort it out... our ta-cal the bigger problems.. i.e Syria.. Israel

    Edited by lfcdude
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    You've got to be very careful playing the moral ground card. If you do you've got to invade nearly all of Africa China Syria and host of other countries.

    I still think this should have been sorted out by the Arab league who got rather swept away by GB USA desire for regime change.

    There's no guarantee that there's going to be a stable Government after this as the country is very tribal in it's organization.

    Until there is a stable Government I wouldn't call it a successful operation.

    Going back to Afghanistan once the USA and GB fully pull out I suspect it will quickly fall back under the rule of the Taliban or we have to go back in again.

    I agree to an extent with what you say. There is a lot of injustice in the world and a lot of tyrants but to physically invade them all would not only be impossible but foolhardy as well, so any interference from us should be kept to a minimum. I think the USA is gradually learning its lessons from Vietnam, Afghanistan and Iraq - fortunately they no longer have Bush as a president and Obama is much more cautious.

    Also if you look at our history we can hardly hold oursleves up as moral paragons but hopefully we are learning.

    In this case however it is the Libyan people themselves who have done the brunt of the fighting and all western nations have done is to assist with air support at the request of the rebels.

    What will happen later is anyone's guess at the moment but there are hopeful noises coming out of the top rebel leadership in relation to setting up a constitution and a democracy and establishing a society not based on tribal allegiance.

    The Libyans themselves are relatively well educated and more "westernised" in many ways, so it could just work.

    This is not without precedent because Mohammed did this selfsame thing back in the 500's, so for me personally, I am cautiously optimistic but realise that there is many a slip betwixt cup and lip.

    Afghanistan seems to be a different kettle of fish where tribal allegiances appear to be so much more difficult to break down. To be honest nobody has ever succeeded in completely subduing this part of the world. The British failed in a little over 100 years ago, the Soviets failed so it will probably need an exceptional leader to bring this country together.

    Edited by mike Meehan
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    Posted
  • Location: Camborne
  • Location: Camborne

    Afghanistan seems to be a different kettle of fish where tribal allegiances appear to be so much more difficult to break down. To be honest nobody has ever succeeded in completely subduing this part of the world. The British failed in a little over 100 years ago, the Soviets failed so it will probably need an exceptional leader to bring this country together.

    A bit more than 100 years ago Mike. Reminds me of one of my favourite paintings (not that I'm ant expert) by Elizabeth Butler.

    William Brydon CG (10 October 1811 – 20 March 1873) was an assistant surgeon in the British East India Company Army during the First Anglo-Afghan War and is famous for being the only member of an army of 4,500 men to reach safety in Jalalabad at the end of the long retreat from Kabul in 1842. Times haven't changed much since.

    The Remnants of an Army (1879)

    Posted Image

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    A bit more than 100 years ago Mike. Reminds me of one of my favourite paintings (not that I'm ant expert) by Elizabeth Butler.

    William Brydon CG (10 October 1811 – 20 March 1873) was an assistant surgeon in the British East India Company Army during the First Anglo-Afghan War and is famous for being the only member of an army of 4,500 men to reach safety in Jalalabad at the end of the long retreat from Kabul in 1842. Times haven't changed much since.

    The Remnants of an Army (1879)

    Posted Image

    I will agree on circa 170 years but I think I made another faux pas - wasn't Alexander the Great successful in that part of the world - I was only a young lad at the time and don't remember it too clearly! Edited by mike Meehan
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    Posted
  • Location: Sheffield South Yorkshire 160M Powering the Sheffield Shield
  • Weather Preferences: Any Extreme
  • Location: Sheffield South Yorkshire 160M Powering the Sheffield Shield

    Who the hell gave Gaddafi the mandate to rule his country for 42 years?

    He did and then later on towards the end we supported him then decided not too. Whether got any support from the West at the beginning I don't know.

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    Posted
  • Location: Camborne
  • Location: Camborne

    I will agree on circa 170 years but I think I made another faux pas - wasn't Alexander the Great successful in that part of the world - I was only a young lad at the time and don't remember it too clearly!

    He did but he was a very young man when he died so you probably just missed him.

    Sorry, but there are lots of ugly leaders out there, but international treaties and laws should be followed. If I do see Cameron up these parts, I'll bring a pair of handcuffs with me.

    I must admit I'm having difficulty getting head around you being a male suffragette and handcuffing yourself to a railing.

    Whether got any support from the West at the beginning I don't know.

    I doubt it he was fiercely anti west and Nasser was his hero.

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    Posted
  • Location: Irlam
  • Location: Irlam

    He did and then later on towards the end we supported him then decided not too. Whether got any support from the West at the beginning I don't know.

    A coup is not what I call a mandate. Furthermore throwing out the then constitution and then enforcing your ideology is not what call a mandate neither.

    The US did recognise the regime in late 1969.

    Edited by Mr_Data
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    Posted
  • Location: Sheffield South Yorkshire 160M Powering the Sheffield Shield
  • Weather Preferences: Any Extreme
  • Location: Sheffield South Yorkshire 160M Powering the Sheffield Shield

    A coup is not what I call a mandate. Furthermore throwing out the then constitution and then enforcing your ideology is not what call a mandate neither.

    The US did recognise the regime in late 1969.

    Although recognised Gaddafi didn't seem to be supported and seemed to have ideas similar too the deceased Binnie boy in that he wanted to form a united Muslim world. Surprised he didn't have much closer ties.

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    Posted
  • Location: Stoke Gifford, Bristol
  • Location: Stoke Gifford, Bristol

    Let the Libyans sort things out now - no British Troops/armed forces should go near the place - no bodybags with Brits in please.

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    A coup is not what I call a mandate. Furthermore throwing out the then constitution and then enforcing your ideology is not what call a mandate neither.

    The US did recognise the regime in late 1969.

    That reminds me of when the American troops went into Iraq and Bush said, "We are going to impose democracy on this country" - unfortunate choice of words

    Let the Libyans sort things out now - no British Troops/armed forces should go near the place - no bodybags with Brits in please.

    Agreed - apart from which we want to save a few bob towards the national debt.

    Although recognised Gaddafi didn't seem to be supported and seemed to have ideas similar too the deceased Binnie boy in that he wanted to form a united Muslim world. Surprised he didn't have much closer ties.

    I think he would have liked to have controlled it - a bit of a difference.

    Who the hell gave Gaddafi the mandate to rule his country for 42 years?

    Gaddafi?
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    Posted
  • Location: Sheffield South Yorkshire 160M Powering the Sheffield Shield
  • Weather Preferences: Any Extreme
  • Location: Sheffield South Yorkshire 160M Powering the Sheffield Shield

    Rumors that the SAS are on the ground trying to find Gaddafi. However there aren't any British troops involved?????

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