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The Middle East...where Are Events Taking Us?


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Posted
  • Location: 4 miles north of Durham City
  • Location: 4 miles north of Durham City

    Or, you could look at it this way....

    As Syria currently produces very little oil, and what it does produce is for domestic use, then support for opposition groups there must be for other purposes?

    Hardly good ones. This is all geostrategic meddling.

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    There is no other description for what is happening other than war crime and genocide.   Israel is technically the occupying force on Gaza and as such is duty bound to protect civilians.   Complet

    The scenes in Gaza look like the aftermath of a nuclear bomb, utter devastation. The Israelis telling people to go back to their homes in northern Gaza as its "safe", what are they supposed to go back

    Reported on the BBC too... An air strike on an army camp has killed three soldiers, the Syrian government says, blaming the US-led coalition for the attack. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-

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    Posted
  • Location: Near Lauder, SE Scotland, 175 m asl
  • Location: Near Lauder, SE Scotland, 175 m asl

    Hardly good ones. This is all geostrategic meddling.

    Yep. I think we should we stop meddling. Let North Korea and Iran develop nuclear weapons. Remove all sanctions on Iran, Syria etc. We should forget trying to mediate in the middle east crisis and let Isreal do what it likes. Not our problem. Dissolve the UN. When it comes down to it, it's all just geostrategic meddling.

    May I ask if you have an alternative, workable strategy for world peace, security and prosperity?

    We live in an imperfect world. You do seem to spend an inordinate amount of time trying to convince people that are all sorts of ulterior motives to things when everyone already knows that commonly applies and accepts that things are never going to be perfect. You just have to weigh up the pros vs cons and decide what is the lesser of two evils; sitting on the sidelines or trying to aid what is considered the overall better outcome.

    I believe regime change / democracy should come from within. Iraq was not this case; if it was to be invaded, it should have been done the moment Kuwait was liberated. In the case of Libya, we have a popular uprising gone wrong, but the change is still coming from within, not being forced upon them. Mistake was thinking it would all be over in a few weeks, as usual. Oil a big incentive in both cases of course, but that's life for now - countries need a stable supply of oil.

    Sounds to me like you need to join greenpeace or similar and get out there actively doing something if you really feel passionately about these things. Would make more difference than posting conspiracy theory videos on a weather forum.:good:

    Edited by scottish skier
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    Posted
  • Location: 4 miles north of Durham City
  • Location: 4 miles north of Durham City

    Yep. I think we should we stop meddling. Let North Korea and Iran develop nuclear weapons. Remove all sanctions on Iran, Syria etc. We should forget trying to mediate in the middle east crisis and let Isreal do what it likes. Not our problem. Dissolve the UN. When it comes down to it, it's all just geostrategic meddling.

    May I ask if you have an alternative, workable strategy for world peace, security and prosperity?

    We live in an imperfect world. You do seem to spend an inordinate amount of time trying to convince people that are all sorts of ulterior motives to things when everyone already knows that commonly applies and accepts that things are never going to be perfect. You just have to weigh up the pros vs cons and decide what is the lesser of two evils; sitting on the sidelines or trying to aid what is considered the overall better outcome.

    I believe regime change / democracy should come from within. Iraq was not this case; if it was to be invaded, it should have been done the moment Kuwait was liberated. In the case of Libya, we have a popular uprising gone wrong, but the change is still coming from within, not being forced upon them. Mistake was thinking it would all be over in a few weeks, as usual. Oil a big incentive in both cases of course, but that's life for now - countries need a stable supply of oil.

    Sounds to me like you need to join greenpeace or similar and get out there actively doing something if you really feel passionately about these things. Would make more difference than posting conspiracy theory videos on a weather forum.:good:

    Yes, Iran has the right to develop nuclear power and even nuclear weapons. Do you know how many Israel has? I don't buy the fear-mongering cr*p about Iran. I don't believe in putting sanctions on Iran and Syria. And as for Israel, I think countries like the US should stop giving them billions of dollars of aid.

    You do realise it was the CIA who helped put Saddam in power, and that the US continued selling him bombs and gas even as he was gassing the Kurds and even as he threatened to "bomb half of Israel". Amazing really.

    How do you know what the case of Libya is? Have you bothered to check what I posted in that interview with Congressman Kucinich? He raised some very valid and concerning observations about potential pre-planning (pre-uprising) military operations and the eerily very similar date those war-games had with the real launch of the Libyan military operations. Oh, and the fact that the intervention now violates the UN resolution, and that it also violates the US Constitution too. But of course, nobody cares about the law anymore. This has been particularly the case since 9/11.

    Edited by PersianPaladin
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    Posted
  • Location: Dorset
  • Location: Dorset

    The thousands of people in Iran and Syria who have been killed or are in prison for no reason other than that they peacefully demonstrated will nodoubt be glad you hold that view.

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    Posted
  • Location: Sheffield South Yorkshire 160M Powering the Sheffield Shield
  • Weather Preferences: Any Extreme
  • Location: Sheffield South Yorkshire 160M Powering the Sheffield Shield

    Today, William Hague visited Libya and praised the rebels as noble freedom fighters.

    But yet....

    "Abdel-Hakim al-Hasidi, the Libyan rebel leader, has said jihadists who fought against allied troops in Iraq are on the front lines of the battle against Muammar Gaddafi's regime."

    http://www.telegraph...aeda-links.html

    Surely...that includes Al Qaeda fighters that Hague is praising? If so, this just adds onto the disgrace of the ILLEGAL intervention in Libya which has violated the UN resolution (http://www.craigmurr...03/illegal-war/).

    Anybody supporting this

    (i.e. back in winter of 2010) intervention has no moral fibre whatsoever.

    Brilliant past mistakes still not learnt.

    See the Beeb propaganda is in full flow tonight.

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    Posted
  • Location: Near Lauder, SE Scotland, 175 m asl
  • Location: Near Lauder, SE Scotland, 175 m asl

    The thousands of people in Iran and Syria who have been killed or are in prison for no reason other than that they peacefully demonstrated will nodoubt be glad you hold that view.

    Aye, but PP does not seem to give even weight to such aspects, which is the main problem I have when people put forward the 'nasty government / conspiracy theory' arguments.

    For pre-planning in Libya? I guess any government with a vested interest would be thinking 'Hmm, Tunisia going for regime change, Egypt too, stirrings in Libya and many arab countries. Ok, Libya fairly big source of oil, Gaddafi very very unlikely just to hop on a plane out of there at the first sign of trouble; more likely to start shooting everyone. So, what we gonna do if the Libyan's rise? Guess we better put a plan in case that occurs'. I see no conspiracy in this, just typical western powers looking out for stable oil supplies/market as per usual. Not maybe therefore as moral as they're making out, but that's about it. Libyan rebels/colleagues seem pleased, so who am I to complain. I do have concerns about all the cash being put in, and of course casualties, but in the latter case, I suspect Gaddafi wasn't too worried about that.

    PP - I'm largely basing my views on Libya based on what people from Libya I work with who have family and friends there are telling me. I explained this before. I find them a good source for 'the truth' or as close as.

    As for Iran? Most Iranians are very friendly and we have no need to fear them. However, those who currently run Iran are very unpleasant people and we need to keep a close eye on them. In Iran, you can just 'dissapear' quite easily if you make to much of a fuss. Again, this comes from my Iranian colleages, including office mate of 3 years.

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    Posted
  • Location: Sheffield South Yorkshire 160M Powering the Sheffield Shield
  • Weather Preferences: Any Extreme
  • Location: Sheffield South Yorkshire 160M Powering the Sheffield Shield

    The thousands of people in Iran and Syria who have been killed or are in prison for no reason other than that they peacefully demonstrated will nodoubt be glad you hold that view.

    Do we have a duty to be the world policeman though? Can we come out and say etc etc about Libya and ignore other countries? Or should we be encouraging the Arab nations to take responsibility upon themselves to sort out these issues?

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    Posted
  • Location: 4 miles north of Durham City
  • Location: 4 miles north of Durham City

    Aye, but PP does not seem to give even weight to such aspects, which is the main problem I have when people put forward the 'nasty government / conspiracy theory' arguments.

    For pre-planning in Libya? I guess any government with a vested interest would be thinking 'Hmm, Tunisia going for regime change, Egypt too, stirrings in Libya and many arab countries. Ok, Libya fairly big source of oil, Gaddafi very very unlikely just to hop on a plane out of there at the first sign of trouble; more likely to start shooting everyone. So, what we gonna do if the Libyan's rise? Guess we better put a plan in case that occurs'. I see no conspiracy in this, just typical western powers looking out for stable oil supplies/market as per usual. Not maybe therefore as moral as they're making out, but that's about it. Libyan rebels/colleagues seem pleased, so who am I to complain. I do have concerns about all the cash being put in, and of course casualties, but in the latter case, I suspect Gaddafi wasn't too worried about that.

    PP - I'm largely basing my views on Libya based on what people from Libya I work with who have family and friends there are telling me. I explained this before. I find them a good source for 'the truth' or as close as.

    As for Iran? Most Iranians are very friendly and we have no need to fear them. However, those who currently run Iran are very unpleasant people and we need to keep a close eye on them. In Iran, you can just 'dissapear' quite easily if you make to much of a fuss. Again, this comes from my Iranian colleages, including office mate of 3 years.

    I think the unrest was welling-up and was known about in advance, and the US and other nations have attempted to co-opt events in their favour. This of course involves some insider influence, etc. I agree with you that this is typical behaviour of western powers, but this sort of angle isn't really highlighted as much as it should be. And when it is - it is usually the more sensationalistic conspiracy stuff that appears or gets passed around on the internet.

    It's not just the West that has their own interests in the region - this is all a very dirty game involving several powers such as Russia and China. We are in a dangerous world, a world at the end of the age of cheap oil (to paraphrase Fatih Birol of the IEA).

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    Posted
  • Location: Sheffield South Yorkshire 160M Powering the Sheffield Shield
  • Weather Preferences: Any Extreme
  • Location: Sheffield South Yorkshire 160M Powering the Sheffield Shield

    Turkey getting grumpy with Syria as refugees flood across the boarder as the massacres continue. Will Turkey intervene to create an enclave within Syria?

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    Posted
  • Location: Camborne
  • Location: Camborne

    A brief glimse on how complicated the politics of the middle east can be with an article on Saudi Arabia from an impeccable source the Stockholm International Peace Research Institute. Interesting that they went from giving massive aid to Saddam in the war against Iran, and $25 billion dollars they are believed to have spent in the 1980s to supporting the war to get rid of him.

    http://www.sipri.org/research/disarmament/nuclear/researchissues/past_projects/issues_of_concern/saudi_arabia/saudi_arabia_default

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    Posted
  • Location: Sheffield South Yorkshire 160M Powering the Sheffield Shield
  • Weather Preferences: Any Extreme
  • Location: Sheffield South Yorkshire 160M Powering the Sheffield Shield

    Syria operating a scorched earth policy and seem to be murdering many of the people it meets on the way.

    Meanwhile in Libya we remain bogged down and since Gaddaffi has no where to go, effectively trapped by Western demands it's going to carry on dragging on. Rumours say it's costing the UK a million pounds a day.

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    Posted
  • Location: Liverpool
  • Location: Liverpool

    Syria operating a scorched earth policy and seem to be murdering many of the people it meets on the way.

    Meanwhile in Libya we remain bogged down and since Gaddaffi has no where to go, effectively trapped by Western demands it's going to carry on dragging on. Rumours say it's costing the UK a million pounds a day.

    That figure doesn't really surprise me. The thing that does surprise me is that the whole Syria thing has gone largely un noticed in comparison with Libya. There seems to have been very little in terms of calls for UN action, for something that is on the same scale as he Libya situation.

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    Posted
  • Location: 4 miles north of Durham City
  • Location: 4 miles north of Durham City

    Syria operating a scorched earth policy and seem to be murdering many of the people it meets on the way.

    Meanwhile in Libya we remain bogged down and since Gaddaffi has no where to go, effectively trapped by Western demands it's going to carry on dragging on. Rumours say it's costing the UK a million pounds a day.

    A complete waste of money and resources, indeed.

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    Posted
  • Location: Gulberwick, Shetland
  • Weather Preferences: Snow, thunderstorms, storm force winds
  • Location: Gulberwick, Shetland

    A brief glimse on how complicated the politics of the middle east can be with an article on Saudi Arabia from an impeccable source the Stockholm International Peace Research Institute. Interesting that they went from giving massive aid to Saddam in the war against Iran, and $25 billion dollars they are believed to have spent in the 1980s to supporting the war to get rid of him.

    http://www.sipri.org..._arabia_default

    Well, yes but thats old news really, "the enemy of my enemy is my friend" and all that, standard geopolitical manouevre practised by EVERYONE, not just the US/West. Fact is Sunni Saudi Arabia did and still does see Shia Iran as THE major threat in the region. Indeed, just after the Islamic Revolution, Saudi Arabia, fearing that Iran was trying to acquire nuclear weapons capability, themselves attempted to acquire nuclear weapons from China via their friends in Paksitan * (until the US found out and insisted otherwise). Which is one of the reasons why Iran should not be allowed to acquire nuclear weapons as it will inevitably spark a nuclear arms race in the Middle East. If Iran acquires them then the Saudis will attempt to and so it goes on.

    * The first phase of this program was the acquisition and deployment in 1987, of between 50-60 Chinese built CSS-2A Intermediate Range Ballistic Missiles (IRBM) capable of carrying a 3MT Nuclear warhead and between 10-15 transporter/erector vehicles. It has also been reported that Chinese made Chemical warheads were part of the proposed deal.

    Edited by GWW
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    Posted
  • Location: Sheffield South Yorkshire 160M Powering the Sheffield Shield
  • Weather Preferences: Any Extreme
  • Location: Sheffield South Yorkshire 160M Powering the Sheffield Shield

    Today it was announced officially that US is talking to the Taliban. Although it looks like the Taliban haven't managed to inflect a military defeat on the Us like the Vietcong did it's possible they have inflected a political one as US ability to fund the war is getting a little to expensive.

    Could be good or bad news for Pakistan. Pakistan is a bigger prize for the Taliban with it's nuclear weapons. Not having to fight in Afghanistan means it could via is allies in the Pakistan intelligence take over in Pakistan.

    However the Taliban has many factions so agreeing peace with the US may cause a split. However if I was the Taliban I would agree and then concentrate on taking over Pakistan with the ability to transport extremists more easily to western societies with large Pakistani ghetto's not forgetting the nuclear goal in the meantime.

    Good news for Pakistan Taliban move back to Afghanistan and leave Pakistan alone.

    Edited by The PIT
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    Posted
  • Location: Gulberwick, Shetland
  • Weather Preferences: Snow, thunderstorms, storm force winds
  • Location: Gulberwick, Shetland

    Funny that, some would have us believe that it's just the nasty Israelis who thumb their nose at the UN, whouda thunk it

    BBC News

    Because its Hezbollah, of course, the four accused of involvement of former PM Rafiq Hariri are "honourable brothers." Naturally, the tribunal at The Hague is "biased" and part of an "Israeli plot." Well quelle surprise!

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    Posted
  • Location: Powys Mid Wales borders.
  • Location: Powys Mid Wales borders.

    10 million starve while west bombs africa,we`re only hearing one side of the story here.

    Shocking news story,and for those in africa the worse drought for 60 years aswell.

    http://english.pravda.ru/world/africa/01-07-2011/118365-ten_million-0/

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    Posted
  • Location: Sheffield South Yorkshire 160M Powering the Sheffield Shield
  • Weather Preferences: Any Extreme
  • Location: Sheffield South Yorkshire 160M Powering the Sheffield Shield

    Basic problem isn't the price of food it's too many people and local wars. Humanity again forgets it's not above the forces of nature and is being naturally culled. The area needs stable governments without it this will happen again and again and again.

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    Posted
  • Location: Bratislava (240m)
  • Location: Bratislava (240m)

    10 million starve while west bombs africa,we`re only hearing one side of the story here.

    Shocking news story,and for those in africa the worse drought for 60 years aswell.

    http://english.pravd...-ten_million-0/

    Maybe we shouldn't be involved in Libya and should be doing more to help the drought-stricken Horn of Africa, but what a ridiculous article that is.

    "...the vast majority of the population supports Colonel Gaddafi..."

    Yes, that's why there was such a large uprising against him in the first place.

    "And their populations sit back and do nothing."

    Glib. So what are we supposed to do?

    Pravda doesn't seem to be that much different to its Soviet predecessor.

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    Posted
  • Location: Powys Mid Wales borders.
  • Location: Powys Mid Wales borders.

    Maybe we shouldn't be involved in Libya and should be doing more to help the drought-stricken Horn of Africa.

    52 million sent from the UK.

    It`s the worlds worst ever humanitarian crisis in somalia.

    http://www.uruknet.de/?s1=1&p=79603&s2=16

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    • 2 weeks later...
    Posted
  • Location: 4 miles north of Durham City
  • Location: 4 miles north of Durham City

    US diplomatic cables released by WikiLeaks expose some of the real reasons and diplomatic tensions behind NATO’s ongoing bombardment of Libya. Far from initiating a “humanitarian†intervention to protect civilians against Muammar Gaddafi’s government, Washington backed the NATO intervention for one reason only—the installation of a regime that better serves the strategic interests of the US, as well as the operations of the giant oil and gas companies.

    http://www.wsws.org/.../wiki-j27.shtml

    Edited by PersianPaladin
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    Posted
  • Location: just south of Doncaster, Sth Yorks
  • Location: just south of Doncaster, Sth Yorks

    is it really necessary for your whole post to be in bold?

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