Jump to content
Cold?
Local
Radar
Snow?

The Middle East...where Are Events Taking Us?


Recommended Posts

Posted
  • Location: Sheffield South Yorkshire 160M Powering the Sheffield Shield
  • Weather Preferences: Any Extreme
  • Location: Sheffield South Yorkshire 160M Powering the Sheffield Shield

    You mean with, rather than without surely?

    Yup with. Doh.

    As they continue to lose the war the rebels ask for a cease fire. Chances are zero for that. Rumours that NATO have killed the first women and children which if repeated too often will cause resentment towards NATO.

    Spring time is also the time for the Taliban to strike back adding to strain of our stretched resources.

    Poor old Cameron Nato needs to pull a rabbit out of the hat to save him from embarrassment.

    Link to post
    Share on other sites
    Spotted a post you think may be an issue? Please help the team by reporting it.
    • Replies 4.4k
    • Created
    • Last Reply

    Top Posters In This Topic

    Top Posters In This Topic

    Popular Posts

    There is no other description for what is happening other than war crime and genocide.   Israel is technically the occupying force on Gaza and as such is duty bound to protect civilians.   Complet

    The scenes in Gaza look like the aftermath of a nuclear bomb, utter devastation. The Israelis telling people to go back to their homes in northern Gaza as its "safe", what are they supposed to go back

    Reported on the BBC too... An air strike on an army camp has killed three soldiers, the Syrian government says, blaming the US-led coalition for the attack. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-

    Posted Images

    Posted
  • Location: Kingsteignton, Devon
  • Weather Preferences: Cold in winter, snow, frost but warm summers please
  • Location: Kingsteignton, Devon

    Yup with. Doh.

    As they continue to lose the war the rebels ask for a cease fire. Chances are zero for that. Rumours that NATO have killed the first women and children which if repeated too often will cause resentment towards NATO.

    Spring time is also the time for the Taliban to strike back adding to strain of our stretched resources.

    Poor old Cameron Nato needs to pull a rabbit out of the hat to save him from embarrassment.

    Why do you think he was so keen NATO took it on and subsequently made noises about arming the rebels which he knew NATO wouldn't do... genious is does not take.

    Link to post
    Share on other sites
    Posted
  • Location: Sheffield South Yorkshire 160M Powering the Sheffield Shield
  • Weather Preferences: Any Extreme
  • Location: Sheffield South Yorkshire 160M Powering the Sheffield Shield

    Why do you think he was so keen NATO took it on and subsequently made noises about arming the rebels which he knew NATO wouldn't do... genious is does not take.

    Simples. He's suddenly decided he's made a blunder and a costly one when we can't afford it. It doesn't install me with a lot of confidence over his judgement in such affairs.

    Link to post
    Share on other sites
    Posted
  • Location: Sheffield South Yorkshire 160M Powering the Sheffield Shield
  • Weather Preferences: Any Extreme
  • Location: Sheffield South Yorkshire 160M Powering the Sheffield Shield

    Rebels extremely upset by friendly fire deaths. These things will happen and Alq will be rubbing it's hands. Cameron's version of Iraq is starting.

    Link to post
    Share on other sites
    Posted
  • Location: Bratislava (240m)
  • Location: Bratislava (240m)

    Iraq though involved a full-scale invasion, and Saddam was toppled within weeks. Right now, the air strikes in Libya look only to have succeeded in stopping Gaddafi reclaiming the east and rendering the conflict a stalemate. We now have the option of continuing military involvement and draining more and more resources, or withdrawing and leaving Gaddafi to implement a brutal crackdown and become once more a thorn in our side. If more countries were actively involved in the no-fly operations, it would be easier to say "we've done our bit" and pull out.

    This is going to drag on and on and I dare not suggest what the final death toll will be.

    Link to post
    Share on other sites
    Posted
  • Location: Napton on the Hill Warwickshire 500ft
  • Weather Preferences: Snow and heatwave
  • Location: Napton on the Hill Warwickshire 500ft

    Iraq though involved a full-scale invasion, and Saddam was toppled within weeks. Right now, the air strikes in Libya look only to have succeeded in stopping Gaddafi reclaiming the east and rendering the conflict a stalemate. We now have the option of continuing military involvement and draining more and more resources, or withdrawing and leaving Gaddafi to implement a brutal crackdown and become once more a thorn in our side. If more countries were actively involved in the no-fly operations, it would be easier to say "we've done our bit" and pull out.

    This is going to drag on and on and I dare not suggest what the final death toll will be.

    He was a 'thorn in our side' from 3 weeks ago, before that a friend to the West.

    Know idea what happens to Libya should the rebels win.

    I would like to see the Arabs do there bit , or a bit more take over.

    Edited by stewfox
    Link to post
    Share on other sites
    Posted
  • Location: Bratislava (240m)
  • Location: Bratislava (240m)

    What I meant is there's no way Gaddafi and the West will go back to being "friends" again should he completely re-establish his authority.

    It would be more a return to the 1980s, when he sponsored terrorism against Western targets.

    Edited by AderynCoch
    Link to post
    Share on other sites
    Posted
  • Location: Sheffield South Yorkshire 160M Powering the Sheffield Shield
  • Weather Preferences: Any Extreme
  • Location: Sheffield South Yorkshire 160M Powering the Sheffield Shield

    I would like to see the Arabs do there bit , or a bit more take over.

    They won't as they would then get the flack from the Islamic's. Much better the west does the dirty work and gets the blame. Seems to have dropped out of the news at the moment.

    Link to post
    Share on other sites
    Posted
  • Location: Crowborough, East Sussex 180mASL
  • Location: Crowborough, East Sussex 180mASL

    So where have all the folks gone who said this was a good plan? People dying daily, the bill for the war rising with no end in sight. Our glorious Prime Minister instigated this action but who is holding him accountable? Who is pressuring him to tell us how he plans to end it? This was never altruism, merely a gigantic ego unable to resist the temptation to put his name in the history books.

    "Power tends to corrupt, and absolute power corrupts absolutely." - Baron John Acton (1887)

    ffO.

    Link to post
    Share on other sites
    Posted
  • Location: Sheffield South Yorkshire 160M Powering the Sheffield Shield
  • Weather Preferences: Any Extreme
  • Location: Sheffield South Yorkshire 160M Powering the Sheffield Shield

    Two wars Taliban spring offensive starting defence cuts and the government plus the previous Government blasted for selling arms to dodgy regimes. Cameron not really coming out of this very well. Blair mk2 is really a poor imitation.

    Link to post
    Share on other sites
    Posted
  • Location: Kingsteignton, Devon
  • Weather Preferences: Cold in winter, snow, frost but warm summers please
  • Location: Kingsteignton, Devon

    By whom? The Daily Mail? Gawd help us, the world must be ending. Again.

    Presumably we should of sat back and let Saddam murder the Kurds, the Taliban murder everyone and Gaddaffi murder his own people. Thought not.

    Link to post
    Share on other sites
    Posted
  • Location: Kingsteignton, Devon
  • Weather Preferences: Cold in winter, snow, frost but warm summers please
  • Location: Kingsteignton, Devon

    I thought we did.

    Indeed. Perhaps I should of said 'more' rather than 'the'.

    Link to post
    Share on other sites
    Posted
  • Location: Camborne
  • Location: Camborne

    Expanding this further I well remember reading some years ago an account of Saddam's elite forces atttacking the Kurd province in N. Iraq. They attacked a leading hospital and threw women and children out of windows and if that didn't kill them they were finished off with a bullet.

    It should also should not be forgotten that during the Iraqi/Iran war, in which an estimated 1,000,000 died, Saddam was supported by his western allies, including Britain, France and the US. During the war Saddam used chemical weapons. Of course this was after the Pahlavi dynasty in Iran/Persia were deposed and friendly relations with the west came to an abrupt halt. After that of course , in his madness, Saddam had visions of grandeur and invaded Kuwait. He was kicked out but the UN resolution stopped short at the border and an opportunity to get rid of him and at the same time saving thousands of lives was missed. Middle East politics is a quagmire and I suspect the general public know a only small percentage of the truth. And behind most of the intrigue looms the spectre of the black gold and the consumer obsession of the 'developed' nations. And now China is playing catch up in Africa and elsewhere. Oh what a complicated web we weave.

    Edited by weather ship
    Link to post
    Share on other sites
    Posted
  • Location: Sheffield South Yorkshire 160M Powering the Sheffield Shield
  • Weather Preferences: Any Extreme
  • Location: Sheffield South Yorkshire 160M Powering the Sheffield Shield

    By whom? The Daily Mail? Gawd help us, the world must be ending. Again.

    Presumably we should of sat back and let Saddam murder the Kurds, the Taliban murder everyone and Gaddaffi murder his own people. Thought not.

    Silly post.

    Actually at the moment we let the Turks kill the Kurds and ignore it. If you want to play mr goody every where you got most of the world to bomb and invade I'm afraid.

    On a more serious note I see Nato has back tracked from refusing to apologise for the latest mistake. At one time I thought it was our new exit strategy. Keep accidentally hitting the rebels and they'll get so angry and they'll ask us to leave. These mistake will happen but since the rebels have now got tanks are we going to target them when they start shelling towns???

    Link to post
    Share on other sites
    Posted
  • Location: Kingsteignton, Devon
  • Weather Preferences: Cold in winter, snow, frost but warm summers please
  • Location: Kingsteignton, Devon

    Silly post.

    Actually at the moment we let the Turks kill the Kurds and ignore it. If you want to play mr goody every where you got most of the world to bomb and invade I'm afraid.

    On a more serious note I see Nato has back tracked from refusing to apologise for the latest mistake. At one time I thought it was our new exit strategy. Keep accidentally hitting the rebels and they'll get so angry and they'll ask us to leave. These mistake will happen but since the rebels have now got tanks are we going to target them when they start shelling towns???

    Would that be the Kurds attacking Turkey on the demand of their own state?

    Link to post
    Share on other sites
    Posted
  • Location: Sheffield South Yorkshire 160M Powering the Sheffield Shield
  • Weather Preferences: Any Extreme
  • Location: Sheffield South Yorkshire 160M Powering the Sheffield Shield

    Would that be the Kurds attacking Turkey on the demand of their own state?

    Strange that was Saddam's defence as well or had you forgotten that because it suited you to do so??? This slowly dropping out of the news although ground troops could be deployed to help evacuate civilians was mentioned this morning.

    Link to post
    Share on other sites
    Posted
  • Location: Kingsteignton, Devon
  • Weather Preferences: Cold in winter, snow, frost but warm summers please
  • Location: Kingsteignton, Devon

    Strange that was Saddam's defence as well or had you forgotten that because it suited you to do so??? This slowly dropping out of the news although ground troops could be deployed to help evacuate civilians was mentioned this morning.

    Did you forget the original point? Its you harping on about not doing anything.

    Link to post
    Share on other sites
    Posted
  • Location: Sheffield South Yorkshire 160M Powering the Sheffield Shield
  • Weather Preferences: Any Extreme
  • Location: Sheffield South Yorkshire 160M Powering the Sheffield Shield

    Did you forget the original point? Its you harping on about not doing anything.

    You weren't discussing that in your post as you know. Nice side step though.

    Rumblings from France and Britain about the Arabs should be doing more. Yup they should have been from the off rather than being sidelined in the attempt of regime change. Now it's taking longer than expected Cameron and co are floundering around a bit.

    Excellent cartoon there weather ship.

    Edited by The PIT
    Link to post
    Share on other sites
    Posted
  • Location: Sheffield South Yorkshire 160M Powering the Sheffield Shield
  • Weather Preferences: Any Extreme
  • Location: Sheffield South Yorkshire 160M Powering the Sheffield Shield

    More signs of mission creep as we come firmly down on the side of rebels. Military advisor's to be sent to help the rebels. One of the things we're supposed to be doing is protecting civilians so why aren't we telling the rebels too pull out Misrata since a ceasefire cannot be agreed. I'm pretty sure the rebels bullets and rockets don't turn aside when a civilian gets in the way. I'm amazed that they have killed just Gadaffi's soldiers. Anyway the next stage after the advisor's is ground troops.

    Link to post
    Share on other sites
    Posted
  • Location: Chipping Norton, 220mts /720ft asl
  • Location: Chipping Norton, 220mts /720ft asl

    All I hear in the media is "Rebels this, Rebels that....blah". Unfortunately, no-one has the faintest idea who the "Rebels" are. We may find out 6 months down the line that we've actually been helping out AQ/Lib'Taleban or the Libyan branch of the RSPCA. At the moment it seems like a bunch of toothless locals in Toyota Hi-Luxs blasting away at anything official looking.

    Love him or loathe him, Gaddaffi played ball with regards to oil. The new lot could well be wild-eyed fundamentalists who'd rather set the oilfields alight than sell to the West.

    It's a good time to put more than "boots on the ground", how about the entire Army? Move in, annex the oilfields (more than enough lovely blackstuff to keep us going for decades) and help ourselves before the Chinese do it !!

    • Like 1
    Link to post
    Share on other sites
    Posted
  • Location: Near Lauder, SE Scotland, 175 m asl
  • Location: Near Lauder, SE Scotland, 175 m asl

    Hmmm...

    The Libyan rebels are well, Libyan people who oppose Gaddaffi. That's quite obvious. They also have a government of sorts which has been recognised by many nations as the new legitimate one.

    The rebels are civilians in their hundreds of thousands who protested for more freedom/rights and were not kettled or given a bit of a shove, but instead were shot and killed. Many were rounded up from their homes and carted off to who knows where never to be seen again.

    They are normal, friendly, people who have families and friends. However, currently their wives, children, grandparents are hiding in their homes while the young men do their best to stop the latter being killed/raped etc by mercenary troops or bombed to hell by rockets.

    They are not toothless - they are extremely brave. Not trained soldiers, they are doctors, television repair men, computer engineers doing their best. They push forward but are disorganised so have to fall back. But they keep trying and are not giving up - very brave.

    AQ are a few violent idiots that all other muslims hate. They have nothing to do with what is going on. The Taleban are thousands of miles away hiding up hills in Afganistan.

    Does anyone here know any libyans? I do - nice people. In fact we have two here studying at my institute who are now stuck with no funding as nothing getting through. Thankfully, the university is assisting. The others are in Libya. I know two are 'ok' (in Tripoli); 'We are ok' being all they can say on the phone lest someone turns up in the middle of the night from Gaddaffi security and takes them away. The other two we have not been able to contact since things began.

    Involvement of our forces, that is a different debate, but the rebels are not to be feared in Libyan - at least not the ones I know.

    Edited by scottish skier
    Link to post
    Share on other sites
    Posted
  • Location: Chipping Norton, 220mts /720ft asl
  • Location: Chipping Norton, 220mts /720ft asl

    The rebels are civilians in their hundreds of thousands who protested for more freedom/rights and were not kettled or given a bit of a shove, but instead were shot and killed. Many were rounded up from their homes and carted off to who knows where never to be seen again.

    They are normal, friendly, people who have families and friends. However, currently their wives, children, grandparents are hiding in their homes while the young men do their best to stop the latter being killed/raped etc by mercenary troops or bombed to hell by rockets.

    Obviously this is true, I don't intend to tarnish an entire nation !!

    However, and it's a big however, who is pulling the strings here ?? Who are our "Military advisors on the ground" speaking to ?? The BBC don't know, SKY don't know, the press don't know.

    Back in the early 80s when the CIA were thick on the ground in Afghanistan helping to train the Mujahaddin, it seemed the right thing to do. A decade or so later, not such a good idea. The Stinger SAMs we gave them are still a huge threat to our helicopters in the area. We backed the wrong horse there, let's not do the same again.

    Priority #1 and the only priority as far as I'm concerned, is to keep the oil flowing.

    Heartless ? Yes. But as far as our economy is concerned, this is where our Gov't's plans should be.

    Link to post
    Share on other sites
    Posted
  • Location: 4 miles north of Durham City
  • Location: 4 miles north of Durham City

    The military intervention in Libya was probably planned months in advance (a month before the uprisings in Tunisia):-

    http://www.globalres...xt=va&aid=24351

    US Congressman Dennis Kucinich mentions Operation Southern Mistral here towards the end of his speech:-

    http://kucinich.us/i...=28905&Itemid=1

    "While war games are not uncommon, the similarities between ‘Southern Mistral’ and ‘Operation Odyssey Dawn’ highlight just how many unanswered questions remain regarding our own military planning for Libya.

    The ‘Southern Mistral’ war games called for Great Britain-French air strikes against an unnamed dictator of a fictional country, “Southland.†The pretend attack was authorized by a pretend United Nations Security Council Resolution. The ‘Southern Mistral’ war games were set for March 21-25, 2011.

    On March 19, 2011, the United States joined France and Great Britain in an air attack against Muammar Gaddafi’s Libya pursuant to UN Security Council Resolution 1973.

    Scheduling a joint military exercise that ends up resembling real military action could be seen as remarkable planning by the French and British, but it also highlights questions regarding the United States’ role in planning for the war. We don’t know how long the attack on Libya has been in preparation, but Congress must find out. We don’t know who the rebels really represent and how they became armed, but Congress must find out. (Denis Kucinich, Kucinich: President Had Time to Consult with International Community, Not Congress? | Congressman Dennis J. Kucinich, Press Release, March 29, 2011)

    US 'funded Syria opposition groups'

    http://english.aljaz...4117731717.html

    Disturbing, but most likely all part of a plan to pre-empt further Chinese and Russian influence in North Africa (over oil and gas contracts and transit-routes) as well as to ensure that dictators don't have too much control over their own energy wealth. This all ties in with recurring British government policy directives of course, such as here:-

    http://www.sovereign...gyFullFinal.pdf

    http://webarchive.na...03/chapter1.htm

    The usual rhetoric is "humanitarian intervention" or "preventing conflict" (i.e. really pre-emptive war) which is part of protecting UK strategic interests which usually converge with that of the US.

    And why have we gone against our old friend Ghadaffi? What happened to the deals in the desert with Blair in 2007? Hmm....

    In 2009, Ghadaffi threatened to nationalise the oil reserves in Libya, and he made this threat on more than one occasion:-

    http://www.ft.com/cm...l#axzz1K3K9pc1t

    In response to the recent military intervention, Ghadaffi has threatened to cut-off oil to Europe and open contracts with Russia, China and India:-

    http://www.businessi...in-libya-2011-3

    While we can argue about percentages (Libyan oil being in the single % figures when it comes to imports into Europe) - it really is about investment and ownership of the oil in Libya which is sold globally, as well as the fact that many of the oil and gas fields remain undeveloped.

    The fact that energy-security is at the heart of these post-9/11 military interventions was further confirmed by the leak of government documents recently:-

    "Five months before the March 2003 invasion, Baroness Symons, then the Trade Minister, told BP that the Government believed British energy firms should be given a share of Iraq's enormous oil and gas reserves as a reward for Tony Blair's military commitment to US plans for regime change."

    http://www.independe...aq-2269610.html

    Oil is liquid-hegemonic power, 'twas ever thus.

    Edited by PersianPaladin
    Link to post
    Share on other sites

    Create an account or sign in to comment

    You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

    Create an account

    Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

    Register a new account

    Sign in

    Already have an account? Sign in here.

    Sign In Now
    ×
    ×
    • Create New...