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The Middle East...where Are Events Taking Us?

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The Middle East and North Africa is being reshaped.

Tunisia, Egypt, Bahrain, Libya, Yemen, Djibouti, Algeria have all been swept by unrest. Pro-democracy revolutions seem to be the order of the day....whether they will lead to a better more democratic future for the region seems very doubtful to me.

This will impact all of us, and I'm worried that it won't be in a good way. The unrest is so widespread that its impact is going to be unpredictable and dangerous. The Saudis are worried, the Israelis are worried, Syria and Iran are both worried and eyeing opportunity.

You couldn't really have come up with a more volatile scenario....talk about lighting the blue touch paper!!!

Economic and Military strife is bound to result.....isn't it??

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As long as we depend on their oil, gas, minerals and shipping-routes....then we are tied into this rotten drama.

Oil is not just representative of economic-dependency, it also constitutes liquid-hegemonic power.

Edited by PersianPaladin
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I'm feeding this rather interesting. At the moment they all seem to be thinking that the grass is greener on the other side and seem to think democracy is the way forward. Maybe it is but then they'll realise change doesn't mean you'll be better off tomorrow change takes time and corruption will always be there regardless.

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Libyan forces opened fire on mourners leaving a funeral for protesters Saturday in the flashpoint city of Benghazi, and a medical official said 15 people were killed, with bodies piling up in a hospital and doctors collapsing in grief at the sight of dead relatives. The deaths pushed the overall estimated death toll to 99 in five days of unprecedented protests against the 42-year reign of Moammar Gadhafi. Government forces also wiped out a protest encampment and clamped down on Internet service throughout the North African nation.

As relatives buried their dead, they fell victim to a mixture of special commandos, foreign mercenaries and Gadhafi loyalists armed with knives, Kalashnikovs and even anti-aircraft missiles trying to quell the demonstrations, witnesses said.

http://news.yahoo.co..._libya_protests

People in the UK (and elsewhere) have blood on their hands for voting-in a government that would prop-up people like Ghadaffi. Shame on Tony Blair.

Edited by PersianPaladin

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Incorrect.

I didn't vote in Blair or Cameron.

Who did you vote for? Also you've expressed views in the past that were clearly sympathetic to people such as the Taliban in the past.

Do you think keeping Libya isolated would help the people living there??

Do you think that keeping Libya isolated would have prevented arms made by the UK being sold there even though they would have gone via the back door?

Edited by The PIT

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Who did you vote for? Also you've expressed views in the past that were clearly sympathetic to people such as the Taliban in the past.

Do you think keeping Libya isolated would help the people living there??

Do you think that keeping Libya isolated would have prevented arms made by the UK being sold there even though they would have gone via the back door?

I was not sympathetic to the Taliban. Who helped create The Taliban?

http://www.newint.org/features/2009/10/01/blowback-extended-version/

(Dr. Nafeez Ahmed answers that question)

As for "keeping Libya isolated"....well, is it good to meddle there and keep thugs in power? Nope.

You are aware that I have spoken out against our debt-based money system. It is a system where banks have the power to create money as debt, and also to spend money in OUR ACCOUNTS overseas in arms deals (basically do what they like with it).

I'm involved in my local Transition group - with energy security and also eventually to develop local currencies.. Basically it means I'm doing as much good as possible, and limiting the amount of damage I do. What do you want me to do? Vote for people who commit evil abroad and pretend to be "socialists" at home?

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I was not sympathetic to the Taliban. Who helped create The Taliban?

http://www.newint.org/features/2009/10/01/blowback-extended-version/

(Dr. Nafeez Ahmed answers that question)

As for "keeping Libya isolated"....well, is it good to meddle there and keep thugs in power? Nope.

You are aware that I have spoken out against our debt-based money system. It is a system where banks have the power to create money as debt, and also to spend money in OUR ACCOUNTS overseas in arms deals (basically do what they like with it).

I'm involved in my local Transition group - with energy security and also eventually to develop local currencies.. Basically it means I'm doing as much good as possible, and limiting the amount of damage I do. What do you want me to do? Vote for people who commit evil abroad and pretend to be "socialists" at home?

What group is that then I could search for it but you make lot of posts.

Every country has blood on it's hands some more than others. If you don't like I suggest you live on the moon as it's the nature of humanity and will always be there.

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Tbf PIT, PP hasn't warranted this at all - he's done nothing to contribute to this crisis and has probably done less to contribute than anyone else, considering he doesn't vote for the mainstream parties who are instigating this crisis. I'm agreeing totally with what PP is saying - once more...

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Tbf PIT, PP hasn't warranted this at all - he's done nothing to contribute to this crisis and has probably done less to contribute than anyone else, considering he doesn't vote for the mainstream parties who are instigating this crisis. I'm agreeing totally with what PP is saying - once more...

I'm just responding to him saying I've got blood on my hands. I haven't so I'm entitled too respond I think.

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I'm just responding to him saying I've got blood on my hands. I haven't so I'm entitled too respond I think.

Violent systems are like that.

I have some blood on my hands for having my money in a bank that most likely loans out money to arms-companies.

I don't want anymore blood.

Edited by PersianPaladin
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Violent systems are like that.

I have some blood on my hands for having my money in a bank that most likely loans out money to arms-companies.

I don't want anymore blood.

There you go. You know full well I'm anti Iraq war and hate the meddling of the super powers in other countries. I hate the arms trade which probably responsible for more wars than any Government meddling. How many on here have iphones which are made using slave labour where some of the workers have committed suicide yet apple turns a blind eye. If you look around your house you'll fund plenty of items that are made in suppressive regimes or employ child labour.

I buy fair trade coffee but does the money actually get to the people however every time I shop I'll buying something that be screwing one person somewhere in the world. So you can't really say shame on Labour and Tory voters singling one or two groups out.

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There you go. You know full well I'm anti Iraq war and hate the meddling of the super powers in other countries. I hate the arms trade which probably responsible for more wars than any Government meddling. How many on here have iphones which are made using slave labour where some of the workers have committed suicide yet apple turns a blind eye. If you look around your house you'll fund plenty of items that are made in suppressive regimes or employ child labour.

I buy fair trade coffee but does the money actually get to the people however every time I shop I'll buying something that be screwing one person somewhere in the world. So you can't really say shame on Labour and Tory voters singling one or two groups out.

My apologies if I've come across as judgemental of you.

All I can say is that we should try to enjoin the good, and minimize the bad.

Edited by PersianPaladin

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Monies reputed to be estimated around the £200M mark from the sale of arms feed back to the Government of the day.....starting back from during the Thatcher era and the following Labour period. This is purely from Saudi Arabia.....wonder how much has come in from other countries.

May I suggest you read the book 'Dead Men Don't Eat Lunch' by Geoff Gilson. A Fascinating read http://geoffgilson.wordpress.com

Our governments in effect have supported these dictators over the years because it suited us.....

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Monies reputed to be estimated around the £200M mark from the sale of arms feed back to the Government of the day.....starting back from during the Thatcher era and the following Labour period. This is purely from Saudi Arabia.....wonder how much has come in from other countries.

May I suggest you read the book 'Dead Men Don't Eat Lunch' by Geoff Gilson. A Fascinating read http://geoffgilson.wordpress.com

Our governments in effect have supported these dictators over the years because it suited us.....

Thanks for the link. I've added it to my bookmarks.

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My apologies if I've come across as judgemental of you.

All I can say is that we should try to enjoin the good, and minimize the bad.

Sorry if I came across argumentative. I'm hoping some good comes out of the middle east crisis.

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Looks like Gaddafi's days are numbered as riots enter the capital city. I wonder what the Islamic extremists think of all this if many of the countries go for democracy they'll find themselves isolated even more.

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Libya would be an utterly amazing coup! With a military colonel type figure (some could suggest Mubarak was nothing but), and a rather deluded army moving out onto the protestors, this one'll be hard.

Tunisia: Completed (14/01/11) - Leader in power for 23 yearsEgypt: Completed (11/02/11) - Leader in power for 30 yearsLibya: In Progress - Leader in power for 41 yearsBahrain: In Progress - Leader in power for 39 yearsYemen: In Progress - Leader in power for 20 yearsIran: Ended? - Leader in power for 5 years
Edited by Isolated Frost

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Blair should go down with Gaddafi. His concessions to tyrrany, strengthened Gaddafi's position at the expense of Libya's people.

The Libyan people are finally rebelling against their despised ruler and his corrupt regime. But Gaddafi's strength in the Arab world was shamefully bolstered by his oil pact with Tony Blair, says Ian Birrell.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/8337433/A-deal-struck-with-tyranny.html

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Hopefully, a place where many more people (Muslim, Christian and Jew) can come together to create a better life for themsleves. And maybe, just maybe, without Western interference??

I never did win Miss World!

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Looks like Gaddafi's days are numbered as riots enter the capital city. I wonder what the Islamic extremists think of all this if many of the countries go for democracy they'll find themselves isolated even more.

I see that the US are critising the UK for its cosy relationship with Gaddafi! OK they've got a point....but when it does seem a bit rich coming from the Americans!!

Despite what The US is saying publicly about supporting democracy I'm sure that in reality they are more than a bit miffed about developments in the mideast and north africa. America has supported numerous autocratic regimes in the area for many many years, principally to secure there own national interests (eg oil supply, suez canal) and those of Israel. Hopefully countries such as Egypt will end up with genuinely democratic government....but these new democracies are extremely unlikely to be as supportive of US interests or as cosy with Israel.

Libya looks likely to be very messy.... with reports of many deaths, army units taking opposing sides, Benghazi under opposition control and clashes in Tripoli.

..the cost of Brent crude rose to $104.60 this morning

(Talking of the economic impacts of the unrest..... Many of the regimes under threat have large Sovereign wealth funds which have invested huge amounts in western companies....The Libyan Investment Agency has some $70bn tied up in companies as diverse as Juventus FC and the belgian bank Fortis. Potentially add to this the following SWFs..Algeria $54bn, Kuwait $200bn and Saudi Arabia $400bn...what happens to all this foreign investment??.. Can Col Gadaffi and mates simply run off to Paraguay with the fund?? or decide to sell the lot and send markets into meltdown??)

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America can shut it's mouth. Any agreement with Libya was with there approval as was the release of that fall guy which they moaned about.

America will just make deals with the new guys the main worry is that there doesn't seem any organised opposition leaders which means they could be a power vacuum.

The funds will probably be frozen until new leaders come to the forefront.

PP Blair will eventually be brought too account but it will take time.

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Okay then, we're going somewhere now are we? Protests rage on in Libya, but the dictatorship is still as crazy as before!

And for the record - Blair is a genius domestically, but an absolute idiot on the foreign scene. Bit like Thatcher reversed...

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