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The Sad Disgrace Of The NHS

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http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-12464831

I've got to say a lot of people can also come up with similar stories. The sad fact is and both Tory and Labour should hang their heads in shame over this. It's nothing new it's being going on since the 1980's . Nurses can't and aren't trained to deal with anybody who needs 24 hour care. It's not just an elderly problem either although it's presented as such.

The complaints procedure is a farce as we found out and Hospitals fabricate and make up evidence to protect their case and the only way to proceed further is to get lawyers in which is the last thing you want to do when looking after someone who needs full time care.

Add in the coming cuts the third rate service will become even worse.

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http://www.bbc.co.uk...health-12464831

I've got to say a lot of people can also come up with similar stories. The sad fact is and both Tory and Labour should hang their heads in shame over this. It's nothing new it's being going on since the 1980's . Nurses can't and aren't trained to deal with anybody who needs 24 hour care. It's not just an elderly problem either although it's presented as such.

The complaints procedure is a farce as we found out and Hospitals fabricate and make up evidence to protect their case and the only way to proceed further is to get lawyers in which is the last thing you want to do when looking after someone who needs full time care.

Add in the coming cuts the third rate service will become even worse.

I suppose there just aren't enough nurses to cover the needs of people who need such levels of care. Perhaps there should be specially trained nurses for such things.

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Devastating. Though expected. Just look at how well the French and Nordic Regions Healthcare has been handled - simply what could of been. Also, a matter that, as you say, has been BOTH Labour and the Tories responsibility.

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With no competition, an overpaid job, a job for life and a big fat pension, it's no wonder this kind of thing happens.

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With no competition, an overpaid job, a job for life and a big fat pension, it's no wonder this kind of thing happens.

No, it's far more to do with understaffing, underpayment (on what planet are you that you think nurses are overpaid?) and lack of training on the particular caring needs of geriatric patients, even in areas where the majority of patients are bound to be elderly. I don't know any nurses who have adequate time to do anything apart from medical care (as opposed to the "social care" that the very elderly who require help with feeding, helping to the toilet, etc. need).

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What happened to all the axillary nurses, lost in cutbacks? They used to cover the palliative care like feeding, washing etc, it's never really been the job of SRN's.

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Before I start I know some excellent nurses and docters and people who know me will know that I seem to spend my entire life in hospitals for one reason or another.

However what has to remember when talking about cut backs and pay levels....

Nurses in the UK are better paid than almost any country in the world, including the US which is why you get so many nurses from other countries (inc Scandy) in the UK.

An average nurse with 10 years experience with average responsibility working full time is in the top 20% of earners in this country.

Nurses which specialise and take the extra exams can easily take home 40+K.

The NHS has seen the biggest increases in government expenditure over the last 15 years by a long way (something like a 100% growth).

IMO this cant be blamed on money nor pay levels, during the 80's and early 90's I would agree with you, but not now.

So that really leaves how its been managed, since it's been managed by a labour government over the last 14 years they must take most of the blame(although the cons didn't do any better previously).

This is why is rather disappointing to see the NHS complaining about the new NHS management changes, it needs to change simples...

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What's wrong with the NHS in no particular order:

Politics and politicians

Unrealistic public demands and expectations which can never be delivered

Pharma's exortion and monopoly on drug prices and skewed incentives for selling to GP's at source. (divide and conquer)

No effective NHS-wide Purchasing Agency or purchasing strategy

Public litigation culture ever growing

Public shirking responsibility for their own health

Too much cash injection too quickly spent on wages not services and with

no coherent long term strategy or plans

Fundamentally conflicting directives (i.e. between top down management vs local autonomy)

Internal market shambles

Strategic Health Authority management by consensus

Constant civil servant meddling

Prima donnas (both senior management and civil servants)

Straight jacketed target culture

Management consultants

Lack of local level responsibility and accountability for service delivery

Rampant bureaucracy

Initiative fatigue

Complacency

Wastage

Pilfering

This list is not exhaustive.

ffO.

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I think some of the problems can be seen in the following article

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/healthnews/8186658/Patient-care-compromised-by-nurse-staffing-levels.html

11 elderly patients to one nurse and some of those will need 24 hour care show that there is a resource planning problem.

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I had a baby on the NHS. Damn thing took nine months - utter disgrace.

My missus and I had a little one, she only weighed 4Lbs 11 oZ at birth. I blame crappy NHS food..... Shameful :nonono::fool:

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I heard a caller into 5 live yesterday when stuck on the motorway who said that he was working in the NHS as a analyst on contract work for £750 per day. He said it is about 3 times as much as he could get working for a large private firm and that the NHS employed many many similar people on similar rates of pay. Its this sort of thing which makes the NHS not fit for purpose.

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I heard a caller into 5 live yesterday when stuck on the motorway who said that he was working in the NHS as a analyst on contract work for £750 per day. He said it is about 3 times as much as he could get working for a large private firm and that the NHS employed many many similar people on similar rates of pay. Its this sort of thing which makes the NHS not fit for purpose.

Private contractor. They always get paid more and he would also get paid more than someone else doing the same job in a private company as well. Interestingly since these contracts are supposed to go out tender (approved suppliers only) he would have been the cheapest quote. This is one of the problems with how public bodies have to do the contracting.

Other problems and this effects all public bodies budgets. If you don't spend it you can't carry it forward. The budget gets cut so money therefore gets spent on stupid things that are not needed. You should be able to carry some money over say for set period say three years and then the budget reviewed. This allows for some long term planning rather than a one year spending thrift.

Going back to the NHS My mother had a problem at the home she was staying at and they may had to take her into hospital. That made me shudder. The last thing I want is my Mother anywhere near a hospital as they can't look after her.

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Some very dissapointing stories on here.

I have to admit that I find our local NHS GPs and hospital (Borders General) excellent. Guess regional variations must be quite stark.

Trying going to the US and getting ill - first thing they ask is how you plan to pay before you get near a doctor. If you don't have money, 'move along please'. Very civilised is private healthcare....:whistling:

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Some very dissapointing stories on here.

I have to admit that I find our local NHS GPs and hospital (Borders General) excellent. Guess regional variations must be quite stark.

Trying going to the US and getting ill - first thing they ask is how you plan to pay before you get near a doctor. If you don't have money, 'move along please'. Very civilised is private healthcare....:whistling:

Sadly that's the way the Tories want too take things as they see privatising the way forward. Scottish I don't know if you got any elderly relatives if you haven't that's maybe the reason why you find the care pretty good as they're not under duress as such. You can take yourself to the loo, wash yourself and feed yourself.

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Opening up the public sector IS the way forward, and that includes the NHS.

Absolutely 100% disagree. (read my previous posts on the subject, to find out why, no bothering to repeat myself).

Perhaps the private sector should be opened up given the mess the banks made. :rofl:

Thank goodness that the reforms of the NHS do not apply to Wales, one very good thing devolution has done for Wales, and one of the reasons why I am voting Yes for Wales on Thursday.

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Opening up the public sector IS the way forward, and that includes the NHS.

I can see the argument from both sides, although taking the case of care for the elderly, I can't see how the private sector would be more 'caring'; surely is the aim is to make profit? In that case, mininising costs/cutting corners will eventually prevail due to competition? I recall some horror stories about private contractors and elderly care. Will supply links if needs be.

The whole care of the elderly is a big issue and might warrant a seperate thread, but I will say I don't have recent, local direct experience so I could not strongly comment NHS-wise.

In terms of the 'privatisation' in England - not happening up here so I guess we get to watch what happens before anything similar is considered here (which I doubt, unless I am wrong and it is a roaring success south of the border). I certainly do hope it does not go the way I worry it will.

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I think people miss the point, if you have a number of hospitals in the area, then if you get bad service at one, you will go to another. (for the record I can't see the whole NHS being privatised at the mo) If we take the example then hospitals will HAVE to compete on service, unless the family/patient don't mind poor healthcare. It gives people much more choice over where they go.

Simply ploughing billions into something that is inefficient, poorly run and slow to act is not a good idea. Cuba spends far less and has a very good health service. (For example)

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As someone who has just "enjoyed" an operation on the NHS can I say that they were fantastic, the whole experience from start to finish was fantastic; well at least as fantastic as an operation can be.

The NHS were also very good when BoyCatchIII was sick a couple of weeks ago. They saved his life.

Fair enough that some parts of the NHS leave something to be desired but my recent experiences of them are very, very positive.

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Cuba spends far less and has a very good health service. (For example)

Yes, the cuban NHS ("There are no private hospitals or clinics as all health services are government run") is very good I've heard. So what is apparently wrong with the UK NHS based on the experiences of some? Maybe people sometimes expect far more than they pay for? Or maybe some within the NHS system (e.g. private consultants, senior management) demand more than they really deserve when working for the NHS?

http://en.wikipedia....lthcare_in_Cuba

For me, public services (notably, education, health, planning, water and sanitation, even home heating) should remain that. That is why they are called 'public'. The private sector should be for 'privately' wanted things; the luxuries of life?

I am not saying that the current system is perfect - the above is just my view.

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The opening up will not work this has already been proven by the mess of the public transport system and other public services that have been privatised. It will mean the removal of operations and medications that are considered too costly. People with special needs will be considered not profitable and the costs for these services will mean that's it's for the rich only.

The only way privatisation for public services would work properly if they were a none profit based and any profits were just ploughed back in the service rather than the share holders pockets.

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The opening up will not work this has already been proven by the mess of the public transport system and other public services that have been privatised. It will mean the removal of operations and medications that are considered too costly. People with special needs will be considered not profitable and the costs for these services will mean that's it's for the rich only.

The only way privatisation for public services would work properly if they were a none profit based and any profits were just ploughed back in the service rather than the share holders pockets.

What about the gas services, electric, phone etc etc. Using one example to show a fail is a little one sided. More importantly I think that has more to do with the short franchise terms, which are a barrier to long term investment.

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What about the gas services, electric, phone etc etc. Using one example to show a fail is a little one sided. More importantly I think that has more to do with the short franchise terms, which are a barrier to long term investment.

Okay Electric power cuts used to be rare and now fairly common.

Water authorities blimey leaks here leaks there and everywhere.

Gas seem to be the best to be honest.

Then look at the mess contractors have made of our roads. If you look at Sheffield you see the every bit of utility work that has been done due to how they put the road back as cheaply as possible.

Public transport we sued to have the best public transport in the country. Everybody used it and the car stayed at home. Now expensive and unreliable stops change and move Buses go around with the wrong destination on.

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Gas seem to be the best to be honest.

And even the best(???) is a rip off:

http://www.channel4.com/news/centrica-profits-rise-by-24-per-cent

Profts up 24% so up prices by 8%. People need to heat their homes, so what choice do they have but to pay?

There is no really significant difference in price between suppliers; in the main they are making very big profits while all raising prices.

No wonder ofgem is now looking into this - collusion methinks. Big business is rarely honest and will not offer good value for money unless forced to.

"The energy watchdog Ofgem is currently carrying out an investigation into the major energy companies after discovering that average profit margins were increasing, despite company claims that they were being forced by external factors to pass on price rises to customers."

Glad I don't use gas.

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