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Methane Gas And Climate Change


jethro

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Posted
  • Location: LANCS. 12 miles NE of Preston at the SW corner of the Bowland Fells. 550ft, 170m approx.
  • Location: LANCS. 12 miles NE of Preston at the SW corner of the Bowland Fells. 550ft, 170m approx.

The Minister for Climate Change at DECC is Gregory Barker.

On his website, he has a video of his interview with Senator John McCain (about 4 mins). Purpose of the interview, Climate Change, is dealt with towards the end. McCain expresses his concerns that it may be too late to get greenhouse gas emissions under control.

http://www.conservatives.com/People/Members_of_Parliament/Barker_Gregory.aspx

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Posted
  • Location: Mytholmroyd, West Yorks.......
  • Weather Preferences: Hot & Sunny, Cold & Snowy
  • Location: Mytholmroyd, West Yorks.......

Not half as daft as anyone who buys into this anthro CO2-inspired climate change cobblers.

If we forget how the GHG's got there LG what do you expect the planet to do now we have a GHG burden that is as large as we saw 125,000yrs ago?

Can you see why the planet might just act as it did then with similar temps (and so sea levels) as well as GHG levels?

If not then why not? Why should the world not act the same way it has done in the past?

Even if we only see half the warming we did 125,000yrs ago can you see that this would lead to the loss of some of the ice sheets and the re-introduction of the old carbon cycle that was frozen under/in them? Would the release of that bit of the old carbon cycle not lead to a bit more warming and so more of the old carbon cycle re-surfacing etc, etc?

If you think this is unreasonable I'd love to know why as I do not like the future prospects I perceive lie in wait for us under our current GHG burden.

Any reasonable scientific path that does not necessitate further 'natural' additions to the planets GHG levels would be a very welcome piece of understanding and a jolly fine early Chrimbo prezzie!

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The Minister for Climate Change at DECC is Gregory Barker.

On his website, he has a video of his interview with Senator John McCain (about 4 mins). Purpose of the interview, Climate Change, is dealt with towards the end. McCain expresses his concerns that it may be too late to get greenhouse gas emissions under control.

http://www.conservat...er_Gregory.aspx

It wouldn't be too surprising if it was too late to get greenhouse gasses under control, but if it did come to that, then its ultimately a death row scenario as people would wonder when the actual consequences would rear their ugly heads

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Posted
  • Location: LANCS. 12 miles NE of Preston at the SW corner of the Bowland Fells. 550ft, 170m approx.
  • Location: LANCS. 12 miles NE of Preston at the SW corner of the Bowland Fells. 550ft, 170m approx.

Is it true that livestock flatulence releases large quantities of methane?

Yes. Most digesting / decaying organic substances release methane.

But importantly we've been opening up a Pandora's box in the hundreds of million years worth of fossilised and trapped methane stores in the Carboniferous and other geological periods. By hydraulic fracturing (fracking), eg in shale, the rocks are left shattered for ever. This allows more and more fugitive methane to move randomly within the strata and ultimately escape into the atmosphere. The new style unconventional long lateral fracking methods are particularly aggressive.

Perhaps not just Pandora. Maybe Sorcerer's Apprentice comes to mind also. If only we knew what we are doing and what will be outcome (we = oil and gas industry and politicians and consumers etc)

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Posted
  • Location: North York Moors
  • Location: North York Moors

How does fracking release methane through thousands of feet of rock above?

I don't believe any significant amount would normally be released like that.

It's like the frequent quoting of one incident where gas came out of taps as if that was inevitably going to happen everywhere the technique was used.

I find the current anti-fracking hysteria from some quarters rather strange.

What is the problem with increasing the potential yield from a rock formation.

I guess these people would prefer a future world world with less gas and more expensive electricity to come as soon as possible.

You can imagine them huddled together in long winter evenings, taking turns to warm fingers around an inch long stump of candle.

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Posted
  • Location: Ireland, probably South Tipperary
  • Weather Preferences: Cold, Snow, Windstorms and Thunderstorms
  • Location: Ireland, probably South Tipperary

How does fracking release methane through thousands of feet of rock above?

I don't believe any significant amount would normally be released like that.

It's like the frequent quoting of one incident where gas came out of taps as if that was inevitably going to happen everywhere the technique was used.

I find the current anti-fracking hysteria from some quarters rather strange.

What is the problem with increasing the potential yield from a rock formation.

I guess these people would prefer a future world world with less gas and more expensive electricity to come as soon as possible.

You can imagine them huddled together in long winter evenings, taking turns to warm fingers around an inch long stump of candle.

You seem to find any opposition to hydrocarbons confusing. Would you rather have some solar panels on your roof and a wind turbine in your yard, or let someone frack your land?

The chemicals used in fracking are the main issue for me, and most companies don't even have to release data on all the chemicals used.

Fracking water recovery is generally less than 50%, so that billions of litres of toxic water seeping in through the fractured rocks and threatening local groundwater supplies, as well as it taking water away from much more important areas. Even the "water" that is recovered is rarely filtered/cleaned up enough, before often being sent back into rivers.

Just another way that hydrocarbon exploration damages the environment

Just incase your wondering, my hysteria is based on studying geology, including petroleum geology, basin analysis and doing an extra course on hydrofracking.

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Posted
  • Location: LANCS. 12 miles NE of Preston at the SW corner of the Bowland Fells. 550ft, 170m approx.
  • Location: LANCS. 12 miles NE of Preston at the SW corner of the Bowland Fells. 550ft, 170m approx.

4WD "You can imagine them huddled together in long winter evenings, taking turns to warm fingers around an inch long stump of candle."

Done that decades ago -- and survived.

Do some shale gas research 4WD.

There's websites worldwide.

Try this UK sites for starters --

http://frack-off.org.uk/

These websites below relate to those areas (in Lancs and Sussex) licensed to Cuadrilla, the only shale gas company drilling in the UK so far.

http://stopfyldefracking.org.uk/

http://www.reaf.org.uk/news.php

http://gasdrillinginbalcombe.wordpress.com/

Very recently the Lancashire borehole being drilled by Cuadrilla, has had to be abandoned. The cement was poor quality and also some of the equipment got stuck down the well pipe at 2000ft, even though the casing was exploded hoping to release it. So there now remains a leaking well for ever, with a good conduit for methane to migrate uncontrollably into the neighbouring permeable and fissured rocks, then up to the atmosphere. This company (funded by American and Chinese money) plans to come back in January and drill a fresh well just a few feet away.

They have hopes of having hundreds of wells in Lancashire. So how many of those will fail?

Other parts of the UK are under threat by other companies seeking planning permission..

Of course Australia and the US are further along with shale gas developments. There's loads of videos on line showing methane escaping near drilling areas, but really the world has hardly had a pinprick yet from this impossible-to-regulate industry.

Seems to me the greenhouse gas accumulations will develop horrendously.

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4WD "You can imagine them huddled together in long winter evenings, taking turns to warm fingers around an inch long stump of candle."

Done that decades ago -- and survived.

Do some shale gas research 4WD.

There's websites worldwide.

Try this UK sites for starters --

http://frack-off.org.uk/

These websites below relate to those areas (in Lancs and Sussex) licensed to Cuadrilla, the only shale gas company drilling in the UK so far.

http://stopfyldefracking.org.uk/

http://www.reaf.org.uk/news.php

http://gasdrillingin....wordpress.com/

Very recently the Lancashire borehole being drilled by Cuadrilla, has had to be abandoned. The cement was poor quality and also some of the equipment got stuck down the well pipe at 2000ft, even though the casing was exploded hoping to release it. So there now remains a leaking well for ever, with a good conduit for methane to migrate uncontrollably into the neighbouring permeable and fissured rocks, then up to the atmosphere. This company (funded by American and Chinese money) plans to come back in January and drill a fresh well just a few feet away.

They have hopes of having hundreds of wells in Lancashire. So how many of those will fail?

Other parts of the UK are under threat by other companies seeking planning permission..

Of course Australia and the US are further along with shale gas developments. There's loads of videos on line showing methane escaping near drilling areas, but really the world has hardly had a pinprick yet from this impossible-to-regulate industry.

Seems to me the greenhouse gas accumulations will develop horrendously.

Shale gas developments, methane hydrate release, methane released from permafrost and CO2. Sounds almost like a Venus syndrome scenario here and that we may as well give up.

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Posted
  • Location: Camborne
  • Location: Camborne

Shale gas developments, methane hydrate release, methane released from permafrost and CO2. Sounds almost like a Venus syndrome scenario here and that we may as well give up.

As far as the environment is concerned I thought we had.

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As far as the environment is concerned I thought we had.

I guess we may also forget about the whole earth seeing as we are already going to be cooked and since humanity can't do a thing to stop these changes from taking place, I guess the one thing it can do is to find a way to avoid the horrible death to come, should it draw dangerously near

Edited by gagerg
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Posted
  • Location: Cheddar Valley, 20mtrs asl
  • Weather Preferences: Snow and lots of it or warm and sunny, no mediocre dross
  • Location: Cheddar Valley, 20mtrs asl

I guess we may also forget about the whole earth seeing as we are already going to be cooked and since humanity can't do a thing to stop these changes from taking place, I guess the one thing it can do is to find a way to avoid the horrible death to come, should it draw dangerously near

We are not going to get cooked, we are not all going to die. There is absolutely nothing in the science literature which even vaguely suggests such scenarios. Climate and the way it changes doesn't work according to Hollywood scripts, short of the Sun falling from the sky, it will take many, many years for climate to shift in a way which may have drastic consequences - plenty of time for adaptation and mitigation. There's no need to build a bunker, stock up on food or write your will; you will live a perfectly happy and long life with perhaps noticing slight changes in weather.

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We are not going to get cooked, we are not all going to die. There is absolutely nothing in the science literature which even vaguely suggests such scenarios. Climate and the way it changes doesn't work according to Hollywood scripts, short of the Sun falling from the sky, it will take many, many years for climate to shift in a way which may have drastic consequences - plenty of time for adaptation and mitigation. There's no need to build a bunker, stock up on food or write your will; you will live a perfectly happy and long life with perhaps noticing slight changes in weather.

Except for that damned asteroidPosted Image

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Posted
  • Location: South Yorkshire
  • Location: South Yorkshire

We are not going to get cooked, we are not all going to die......

I reckon half the cast on that doomsday preppers programme were hand-picked from NW's climate arena.....

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Posted
  • Location: Mytholmroyd, West Yorks.......
  • Weather Preferences: Hot & Sunny, Cold & Snowy
  • Location: Mytholmroyd, West Yorks.......

Seeing as LG doesn't appear to want to answer my query further up the page maybe Jethro will have a poke?

No matter which way I look at it I cannot see how we do not stand to release part of the Carbon cycle that was included in the cycle last time we had temps similar to todays? Is the melting of the perma-frost and destabilisation of submerged permafrost not a start to this process?

If we accept that part of our carbon releases included an element that has slowed the temperature rise then we have still not seen the GHG's full impacts on temperature yet and so are unaware of the scale of 'natures' portion we appear set to inherit?

As for 4WD's lack of concern (and understanding?) of Fracking I'm glad we've had some posters bring forward papers. We only just had an Australian paper on the heightened methane levels across the area being fracked (not just at the wellhead)? Maybe someone could dig that out?The little I know is from my Geology days and the U.S.'s attempt to bury nerve gas leading to a reactivation of 'extinct' fault planes. any re-activation of fault lines gives a rapid route back to the surface for the Methane and the Carboniferous sediments are well shattered by various techtonic episodes leading to extensive fault lines.

EDIT: Well maybe i can throw the question out to everyone then? Why will we not inherit the part of the dormant carbon cycle that current global temps had in circulation last time and why will that not fuel further 'adjustments' in the carbon cycle until the planet becomes ice free with a full (or bloated?) carbon cycle last seen when we were ice free? Remember, we still have the carbon we have thrown into the cycle should there be any shortfalls in natural carbon from the dormant portion of the cycle?

As for straw-man exaggerations of the issues that such changes would bring? I do not know what they add to the discussion but over time we could see both periods of rapid change (when the hydrates fully destabilise) and extreme climate fluctuations across regions as ocean currents are impacted and rain belts migrate.

Edited by Gray-Wolf
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Posted
  • Location: Cheddar Valley, 20mtrs asl
  • Weather Preferences: Snow and lots of it or warm and sunny, no mediocre dross
  • Location: Cheddar Valley, 20mtrs asl

Poke LG or answer a question?

Actually, I think only Facebook enables you to poke people...

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Posted
  • Location: Mytholmroyd, West Yorks.......
  • Weather Preferences: Hot & Sunny, Cold & Snowy
  • Location: Mytholmroyd, West Yorks.......

Poke LG or answer a question?

Actually, I think only Facebook enables you to poke people...

I was going to say 'stab' then but maybe I oughtn't???

I know the prospects of what i suggest are unpleasant but it shouldn't put us off letting folk know what we think?

I've come to realise that some events are horrid but that does not mean that you are a 'doomsayer/prepper' for speaking of them nor does it make them an impossibility?

We are certainly not suggesting a 'Hollywood' style change but the scope may be there , over time, for massive changes if we do not recognise and deal with the issues?

To have grandchildren know we were talking about the possibilities of such changes and then do nothing to mitigate their situation would not be a nice legacy for them?

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Posted
  • Location: Cheddar Valley, 20mtrs asl
  • Weather Preferences: Snow and lots of it or warm and sunny, no mediocre dross
  • Location: Cheddar Valley, 20mtrs asl

I was going to say 'stab' then but maybe I oughtn't???

I know the prospects of what i suggest are unpleasant but it shouldn't put us off letting folk know what we think?

I've come to realise that some events are horrid but that does not mean that you are a 'doomsayer/prepper' for speaking of them nor does it make them an impossibility?

We are certainly not suggesting a 'Hollywood' style change but the scope may be there , over time, for massive changes if we do not recognise and deal with the issues?

To have grandchildren know we were talking about the possibilities of such changes and then do nothing to mitigate their situation would not be a nice legacy for them?

Fair enough but you also have to consider the consequences of spreading needless alarm. Some of what gets posted here and circulated in the general media can give the impression that we're in dreadful danger, of a vast magnitude, and it's all kicking off a week next Tuesday. See the post I replied to earlier. That level of panic/alarm/worry is not warranted, nor is it supported by the science. You often appeal to people to mind the silent majority, the lurkers who don't join in - I appeal to you that you should also be aware that some may be worriers, some may take your concerns as meaning we're in imminent peril. A modicum of reality and a little less drama would go a long way to helping; over- emphasising something is as dangerous as under-playing it. Not only do you risk scaring people unnecessarily, but you risk them turning off completely when doom fails to materialise in the short time span it has been portrayed in.

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Posted
  • Location: Beccles, Suffolk.
  • Weather Preferences: Thunder, snow, heat, sunshine...
  • Location: Beccles, Suffolk.

I reckon half the cast on that doomsday preppers programme were hand-picked from NW's climate arena.....

Now, now, Barrie...

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Posted
  • Location: Camborne
  • Location: Camborne

Fair enough but you also have to consider the consequences of spreading needless alarm. Some of what gets posted here and circulated in the general media can give the impression that we're in dreadful danger, of a vast magnitude, and it's all kicking off a week next Tuesday. See the post I replied to earlier. That level of panic/alarm/worry is not warranted, nor is it supported by the science. You often appeal to people to mind the silent majority, the lurkers who don't join in - I appeal to you that you should also be aware that some may be worriers, some may take your concerns as meaning we're in imminent peril. A modicum of reality and a little less drama would go a long way to helping; over- emphasising something is as dangerous as under-playing it. Not only do you risk scaring people unnecessarily, but you risk them turning off completely when doom fails to materialise in the short time span it has been portrayed in.

Well the Dutch seem to disagree,

http://www.friendsofscience.org/assets/documents/THE%20DUTCH%20AND%20THE%20SEA%20LEVEL.pdf

And

The Dutch government approved a new euro14 billion (US$18.5 billion) increase in spending on water defenses and water quality improvements over the next 20 years in December. That's on top of euro3 billion (US$4 billion) in extra projects already in the works this decade against the threat from river floods, as Dutch climate models predict global warming will lead to more abrupt showers in the Rhine catchment area, whose water ultimately funnels through the Netherlands on its way out to the sea.

http://www.motherjones.com/blue-marble/2007/02/dutch-lead-rearguard-action-against-sea-level-rise

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Posted
  • Location: Cheddar Valley, 20mtrs asl
  • Weather Preferences: Snow and lots of it or warm and sunny, no mediocre dross
  • Location: Cheddar Valley, 20mtrs asl

When you live on land reclaimed from the sea, you're always going to be fighting a battle to keep it out. Using Holland and Tuvalu as examples of sea level rise and linking it to climate change is hardly representative of sea level rise in general - it's as bad as saying climate change caused Sandy.

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Posted
  • Location: Ireland, probably South Tipperary
  • Weather Preferences: Cold, Snow, Windstorms and Thunderstorms
  • Location: Ireland, probably South Tipperary

I think people here have different ideas of what catastrophic climate change is.

For me it's the kind of change that would wipe out more than half of the worlds population in the next 100 years.

On a couple of blogs it's a rapid change that could happen at any moment, kill almost everyone and render the world uninhabitable.

If a couple of little read catastrophe blogs are as bad for the science of climate change as all the power and money invested in complete denial, through conferences, blogs, ads and government lobbyists, then my world view is clearly out of balance!

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