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PersianPaladin

Coalition Government To The British Public: "you're All Terrorist Suspects"

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Every email, phone call and website visit is to be recorded and stored after the Coalition Government revived controversial Big Brother snooping plans.

http://www.telegraph...-be-stored.html

http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2010/oct/20/internet-phone-data-plan-revived

A waste of money and a death to privacy.

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Every email, phone call and website visit is to be recorded and stored after the Coalition Government revived controversial Big Brother snooping plans.

http://www.telegraph...-be-stored.html

http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2010/oct/20/internet-phone-data-plan-revived

A waste of money and a death to privacy.

That is great news. :ph34r:

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If you have nothing to hide....

nothing to fear...is that how it goes?

Okay then....would you agree if the police forced people to allow them to randomly search every home in the UK to make sure that they weren't doing anything criminal every week. After all, if you have nothing to hide, you have nothing to fear.....

What if you're planning to join union action to stop traffic to protest against government and political corruption...and the people checking your information/emails/etc get the wrong interpretation of the stuff you're writing or people who happen to be in your friends list. Then you get wrongfully imprisoned, have to pay court fees, etc.

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nothing to fear...is that how it goes?

Okay then....would you agree if the police forced people to allow them to randomly search every home in the UK to make sure that they weren't doing anything criminal every week. After all, if you have nothing to hide, you have nothing to fear.....

Wouldn't really be random if it was every home every week though...and that would never happen anyway.

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Wouldn't really be random if it was every home every week though...and that would never happen anyway.

I meant random times chosen for each week. So people don't know when a knock on the door is going to happen.

And how do you know that "will never happen"? A decade ago you could say that certain things taking place now would "never happen" but they have.

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We're not talking about homes being unlawfully searched we're talking about then monitory for any criminal activity. How the hell do you suppose they're going to progress into better and more advanced technology if they just use the same Medthod for the next 100 years? Things change, Methods change but the conclusion is always the same - Better results.

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Okay then....would you agree if the police forced people to allow them to randomly search every home in the UK to make sure that they weren't doing anything criminal every week. After all, if you have nothing to hide, you have nothing to fear.....

I disagree with the Govt's proposals which IMO will do as much to prevent terrorism as will banning pink dodos from owning porn shops on the Crowlin Islands. But building a straw man that makes Mount Everest look like a hillock isn't the way to debate the subject :winky: Let's stick to the facts :)

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We're not talking about homes being unlawfully searched

In my opinion we are.

Nothing to hide? There's lots i want to hide thank you. Got f * * k all to do with anyone but me.

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We're not talking about homes being unlawfully searched we're talking about then monitory for any criminal activity. How the hell do you suppose they're going to progress into better and more advanced technology if they just use the same Medthod for the next 100 years? Things change, Methods change but the conclusion is always the same - Better results.

Nonsense.

They don't need any of this. Anybody who's actually studied terrorist surveillance history knows that these sort of things are un-needed.

For example, looking at 9/11 there were multiple warnings that the higher-up's willingly ignored:-

http://www.historycommons.org/timeline.jsp?timeline=complete_911_timeline&complete_911_timeline_key_events=complete_911_timeline_key_warnings

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In my opinion we are.

Well yes, we're talking about homes being searched in the same way we're talking about being questioned on the number of cheese straws eaten in a month and whether or not we like Deep Purple ..... :rolleyes:

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We're not talking about homes being unlawfully searched we're talking about then monitory for any criminal activity. How the hell do you suppose they're going to progress into better and more advanced technology if they just use the same Medthod for the next 100 years? Things change, Methods change but the conclusion is always the same - Better results.

Don't you get it?

Snooping in on my emails which is a contract with a private company - is an invasion of my privacy. It's like bugging my car for no reason and treating me as a terror suspect for merely being a civilian. It's as if they have invaded my home to check up on what I'm doing (albeit admittedly not technically the same thing).

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There's a chance that those articles may be biased/exaggerating a little- I think we'll have to see more sources come out on this to be absolutely sure of what is going on. If the Telegraph article is right, then it's a concern because giving the authorities that amount of power/control presents plenty of scope for it to be abused, and innocent people who "might" have committed a crime being treated as if they're guilty, for example.

Btw, if "nothing to hide, nothing to fear" was even remotely correct, then people would be presenting highly personal details on their Facebook/Twitter profiles and making all of them available to the general public- after all they have nothing to hide do they?

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I thought that all phone calls could be monitored by a certain place in Harrogate anyway???

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All it means is that service providers will be asked to store the data for a given period of time, in case security forces have reason to request to see it.

It's no different to them looking at your mobile phone to see who you have called in the past week.

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They can already store this material, its on your computer. It isnt Joe Bloggs they are after, it is terrorists and paedos, its the exaggerated equivalent of the newspapers saying its going to be a cold winter....ie we are heading for the next iceage.

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They can already store this material, its on your computer. It isnt Joe Bloggs they are after, it is terrorists and paedos, its the exaggerated equivalent of the newspapers saying its going to be a cold winter....ie we are heading for the next iceage.

Morning LS

That’s the trouble, we have seen over the last few years how councils have used Labours terror legislation to snoop on who ever they please regardless of how minor the offence. How long will it be before Joe Bloggs internet use is being snooped on for no real reason, maybe his teenager gets interested in left wing politics and starts reading up on the net about it. Or maybe he starts looking for sex on the net and accidentally finds something unsavoury, before you know it everything you do and everything you say on the net is being watched, or your house has the door knocked down at six in the morning. Once laws are in place they are often difficult to get rid of, and its easy to find excuses to misuse them, you may have faith that this wont be what happens and that all future governments will only use this in a benign way, but I certainly don't.

Its funny small government only seems to mean giving the rich extra help in making more money, its never about getting rid of the nanny state or big brother.

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Morning LS

That’s the trouble, we have seen over the last few years how councils have used Labours terror legislation to snoop on who ever they please regardless of how minor the offence. How long will it be before Joe Bloggs internet use is being snooped on for no real reason, maybe his teenager gets interested in left wing politics and starts reading up on the net about it. Or maybe he starts looking for sex on the net and accidentally finds something unsavoury, before you know it everything you do and everything you say on the net is being watched, or your house has the door knocked down at six in the morning. Once laws are in place they are often difficult to get rid of, and its easy to find excuses to misuse them, you may have faith that this wont be what happens and that all future governments will only use this in a benign way, but I certainly don't.

Its funny small government only seems to mean giving the rich extra help in making more money, its never about getting rid of the nanny state or big brother.

As a council official I notice you left your downstairs window curtain slightly open last night ?

Any reason for that ?.

We only fine on 2nd infringement.

Health and Safety you know. :rolleyes:

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Just an aside, unless you know what you are doing - it's actually quite difficult to keep the data on your computer secure, especially on Windows.

Computers store data on a hard drive, and a pointer to whereabouts that data is stored on the drive is also stored in a magical place called the file allocation table. When you ask your computer to delete the file, only the entry in the FAT is removed, and file still remains.

And, if you think encryption is the answer, read: here, and you can bet your bottom dollar that some sort of key escrow system is in place regardless of protests claiming it isn't.

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Good morning WE, dont get me wrong I am a little concerned, however I know in times of recession, yes a bouble dip is on the way in January.... they have more pressing things to think about.

Councils in Sctland never had that power or indeed inclination to snoop like that, simply because the carrot for doing so was never in place. I suppose the good bit of news with snooping in cyber space potentially our children are safer from Paedos, which in my book is far worse than any terror threat.

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PP, you really do need to get out more....... :doh:

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Don't you get it?

Snooping in on my emails...

Could easily send the world to sleep... :lol:

But, seriously, I have some real sympathy with you on this one. Must we all spend the whole of the rest of our lives under state surveillance??? :unsure: :cc_confused:

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Likewise I have a certain sympathy with PP on this one although he even outdoes the gutter press for sensationalism :lol:

Simple answer is, if we are having to resort to this sort of thing then the terrorists have won. Their objective is to force us to give up our freedoms and normal way of life and if we continually go down this road then they have succeeded. Its our very free and generally liberal way of life that they utterly despise and in doing stuff like this we are basically surrendering our way of life to them. That said, I believe the flip-side of the coin is that if you want to preserve our freedoms, you sometimes have to be prepared to defend them and that may mean sterner punishments/sentances than exist at the moment to act as a deterrant.

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