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PersianPaladin

The "world Is Over-Populated" Argument

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The World Wildlife Fund said this on Wednesday: -

"Carbon pollution and over-use of Earth's natural resources have become so critical that, on current trends, we will need a second planet to meet our needs by 2030"

http://www.rawstory....find-earth-wwf/

Now, I wonder if they're considered these rebuttals?

http://www.guardian....lation-nonsense

http://www.guardian....owth-super-rich

Funny how some of the most prominent elements of the environmentalist movement (albeit not all) put the blame on humanity as a whole, rather than focussing on the real structural issues.

If you think the world is overpopulated or that "humans" as a whole are the problem, then I have a solution for you... "Kill yourself". Seriously.

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i did not fully read the links you pasted (so sorry if i've got the wrong end of the stick), but i was once told that if every person in the entire world was given an acre of land, we would all happily fit within austraiia (or was it queensland within australia?), leaving the rest of the world unpopulated.   if this is correct, then i think the planet is clearly not over populated.

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I think you were probably wise not to read the links, but if we assume a world population of 6 billion people and therefore 6 billion acres, this would equate to about 9.4m sq miles, which is about 3 times the size of Australia....so not quite, but certainly in the right ball-park.

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I think you were probably wise not to read the links, but if we assume a world population of 6 billion people and therefore 6 billion acres, this would equate to about 9.4m sq miles, which is about 3 times the size of Australia....so not quite, but certainly in the right ball-park.

That does highlight the injustices of land ownership in one fell-swoop. But I do think the links offer some interesting counter-arguments to what the WWF has been saying.

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I think I've read too many of your links and Youtube clips PP... it's all become a bit of a 9/11 conspiracy, peakoil, monetary reform blur.... or is it paradigm? :cc_confused:

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Is the planet overpopulated? Probably not.

Do some areas of the planet suffer from too high a population density, including many parts of SE England? I think yes.

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I think I've read too many of your links and Youtube clips PP... it's all become a bit of a 9/11 conspiracy, peakoil, monetary reform blur.... or is it paradigm? :cc_confused:

Yeah sorry, maybe I think too much for you.

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More deceptive information from the "over-population" cult: -

As the world faces overpopulation, the Philippine capital highlights the problems it brings, as Jenny Kleeman discovered.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/oct/15/philippines-overpopulation-crisis

I find her quote "The planet is running out of space" to be technically false. It is only true if you suggest the current political/economic structures as neccessarily ABSOLUTE.

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It's not running out of space no, but our minds seem to be running out of sympathy for the world around us.

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The problem is not how much space we need to live, but how much space we need to grow food and mine resources and whether we can do both to bring the whole global population up to anything close to western standards. Without taking away the ability for any other life on this planet to also live and thrive.

Of course, the Bible does say God put us in charge of, and above, all other life. So I suppose that gives us an excuse? :wallbash:

And no I'm not going to kill myself but I have not had any children.

Of course, there is one solution. Soylent Green anyone? :lol:

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Yeah sorry, maybe I think too much for you.

If posting links to Youtube can seriously be seen as an analogue to thinking...

The modernist dumbed-down 'paradigm' parhaps?

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If posting links to Youtube can seriously be seen as an analogue to thinking...

The modernist dumbed-down 'paradigm' parhaps?

I've written down my own commentary and arguments enough times, and there is no harm in posting videos that happen to be on Youtube to support it.

It really depends what is on that link. If you're judging a link without looking at the content then that makes you look absurd.

The problem is not how much space we need to live, but how much space we need to grow food and mine resources and whether we can do both to bring the whole global population up to anything close to western standards. Without taking away the ability for any other life on this planet to also live and thrive.

Of course, the Bible does say God put us in charge of, and above, all other life. So I suppose that gives us an excuse? :wallbash:

And no I'm not going to kill myself but I have not had any children.

Of course, there is one solution. Soylent Green anyone? :lol:

If you look at somewhere like Kerala in south-east India. The population is stabilising. They have enough food and water; however women are decently educated, there is good sanitation and women also choose to have children at an average age of 23/24 and usually no more than 3 children per family.

Importantly, people forget that "western standards" are not a neccessity to ensure a decent quality of life for most people. Our "standards" here are also class-dependent. As the Monbiot article I posted at the top of this page says - most of the consumption is not done by working class people. And really, we NEED to change our way of life by reducing consumption of fossil-fuels, improving efficiency, changing our agricultural systems, creating less centralized economic systems, transitioning to permaculture land-use for materials, etc. I'm afraid a lot of us in the West have become too wasteful for too long. In the global capitalist system, we often see large extreme contrasts in wealth; and thus peoples' understanding of population growth relative to consumption of resources often falters here. I'd even criticise people such as Mike Ruppert and Dr.Ahmed in their understanding of population growth, albeit they are excellent in all other departments.

Dr.Nafeez Ahmed discusses a need to change our way of life as we face multiple converging crises this century. I've bought his book recently and it's really worth a read: -

http://www.plutobook...=9780745330532

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... If you're judging a link without looking at the content then that makes you look absurd.

I wish I had more time to watch all those videos and read those links that you kindly post, but I have a job to keep down, a life to lead and then there's practising with Mrs Kar at over-populating the planet over the kitchen table that all takes time. :whistling:

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I wish I had more time to watch all those videos and read those links that you kindly post, but I have a job to keep down, a life to lead and then there's practising with Mrs Kar at over-populating the planet over the kitchen table that all takes time. :whistling:

I don't have a full-time job and live with my parents. But at least I'm finding valuable use of my free-time. I could be hanging around street-corners or watching telly all day.

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Spiffin.... Nowt wrong with that.

Although personally I could watch Bloomberg all day to see how my portfolio is performing.

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I think summarising what the message of those Youtube videos is, and then posting the summaries in brief, may give a more positive response.

I'm interested in finding ways to change the world for the better myself, and think that there is some promise in many of PP's ideas, but like others, have to admit to not having enough time or energy to sift through the numerous videos. If I, as a strong advocate for big changes in the way the world works, think this way, then I doubt people who don't care as much will be persuaded into caring more by the "Youtube videos for demonstration" approach.

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12-14 billion on present technology. Anything above we could have problems

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Of course the world is not over-populated, and any suggestion it is is obviously ridiculous. However, conversely, there is no way the world could support the enitire human population living in the kind of wasteful, rapacious, thoughtless consuming manner that Western 'civilisation' lives. So the choice is stark and simple, either the human race as a whole adjusts it's destructive consumption downwards to achieve a sustainable balance, or we start adjusting the human population down to allow the remainder to continue 'in the luxury to which they have become accustomed'.....................

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Unfortunately I think you are right, and that's why I'm among those hoping to find ways of making big changes to the way our Western world works. The key is finding a route to sustainable living at minimum cost to humans, which in practice is a very complicated problem which will probably require many minds to work hard at it. This is illustrated by how often I've refined my own views as people have come up with perspectives that I hadn't considered previously.

But an even bigger problem is, "how do we get more people to care, even if we do come up with reasonably palatable-sounding long-term solutions". It seems clear that neither PP nor myself have come up with good answers to that question, and even more worryingly, neither has anyone else! But we can't afford to give up hope, as some people preach, because if we do, "we're doomed and that's life" becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy.

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Of course the world is not over-populated, and any suggestion it is is obviously ridiculous.

As all rats and locusts agree :)

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Personally i think that the over populated arguament is complete rubbish and the don't want to have to pay for anybody else arguament is more true. There is enougth land for everybody, there is enougth stone to build with, and enougth space to grow food even before killing animals, we also have plenty of geothermal and solar energy that we could use.

The current problem is not one of lack of resources of space, it is one of cost effectivness.

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Ever played the game of life on a computer????

Stop all the technology we can't feed ourselves so loads will die but the bush man in Africa will be okay.

Blockade the uk we can't grow enough food too support ourselves.

It all depends on how you judge things.

Switch off all technology tomorrow remove all tin openers how many us can do the basic of catching a rabbit or even make a fire?????

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How many people here have been through World War 2?

I think we're all going to visit the days of "dig for victory" as well as force ourselves to form more of a neighborly bond like our grandparents (or parents) did.

I think summarising what the message of those Youtube videos is, and then posting the summaries in brief, may give a more positive response.

I'm interested in finding ways to change the world for the better myself, and think that there is some promise in many of PP's ideas, but like others, have to admit to not having enough time or energy to sift through the numerous videos. If I, as a strong advocate for big changes in the way the world works, think this way, then I doubt people who don't care as much will be persuaded into caring more by the "Youtube videos for demonstration" approach.

Well, I'd say it takes just as much time to view the videos I occasionally post (it's mostly articles I post btw) as it takes to read lengthy posts on netweather. But you're right about a summary.

But really, I am somewhat of a book-worm. I spend time reading a lot of non-fiction and am reaching an overdraft on Amazon book purchases alone (since Google Books is limited in what you can obtain on the internet).

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It's not all about over-population. Ity's about each and every person and how they act. It wasn't that long ago when China had a population of around a billion and American had 250 million. Despite America having 1/4 the population size it's emmisions were far greater than China. That's because America had the technology to allow people to live, consume and discrete vast ammounts of waste energy as part of their everyday life (not necessarily pollution, depends how you look at it)

Is the world overpopulated? Depends on the carrying capacity of this planet. I'd assume more then 5 people per square mile.

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The overpopulated argument is anti-human frankly - it merely gives environmentalists an excuse to halt humanity's progress (not saying that all of them do). The amazing thing about humans is our ability to adapt and innovate and build our way out of problems. Every civilisation has had its own version of how the world will end by extrapolating current trends without factoring in those abilities and this is just part of our apocalypse scenario.

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