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The PIT

The Cut Backs Are Starting

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Copy of the letter I got his morning below

About your support at Hurlfield View Resource Centre

Sheffield City Council and the Sheffield Health and Social Care Trust have listened to what older people are saying and we are looking again, at how we offer you support. It is our responsibility to help you have the best services at a price that is good value. As somebody who uses Hurlfield View we expect this will mean some changes for you so we wanted to let you know what may happen.

Why are we doing this?

We want to offer you more choice about how you receive support. Although some people value, the care they receive at Foxwood, Bole Hill View, Hurlfield View and Norbury in reality they are no longer as well used as they used to be. Many people tell us this type of resource centre is not how they want to be supported. We need to know if there is a better way to use the money it costs to run. Now more than ever, we need to make sure we offer the best care for as many people as possible.

What will happen?

We will be asking Councillors for permission to talk to you about how we can be help you to live at home. We will be talking to everyone, whether or not they receive respite care or day care.

This could mean a change to where day services and respite care are provided and one resource centre will close. If this were to happen, we believe it would make most sense if Foxwood were to close.

 

How will this affect me?

If the changes go ahead then you will be offered a choice about how you are supported. The person or people who arrange your care will discuss with you what is available and what suits you best. If you choose to continue the type of support you get now, then we will do our best to make sure that any change is as easy as possible for you.

We hope you will like what we do but we know that any change can be a bit worrying. You will still get the same amount of support. It just might be from somewhere else.

It is important that you know that these particular changes will not cost you

Any more nor will it affect any care that you may get in your own home.

When will this happen?

We are asking the council's Cabinet on 27 October 2010 for permission to begin talking to you and others about these suggestions. If they agree, we aim to have reached a decision by the end of December this year. At that point, we will let you know what is going to happen next. We plan to complete any change by the end of March 2011.

Can I talk to anyone about this?

Yes. You, or anyone who cares for you, can talk to your social worker or care manager about what this might mean for you. Alternatively you could ring Hurlfield View Resource Centre on 0114 2399633 between 9.00am and 3.00pm to answer any questions you may have.

Yours sincerely,

Eddie Sherwood

Interim Director of Adults' Services

***************************************************************************************************************************************************************************

Improving the service is short for cutting of services.

The strange thing if they're not full why is there a waiting list to get in???? How come that if one our other care packages falls through I can't put my mother on their bus because it's full. I spoke to the transport manager a few weeks ago and she said "we've got so many new people we're having problems and we've got too talk to the social worker.

Knowing our council the decision is already made.

Of course they'll hide behind results of a survey that says elderly want to be at home. Yes but the problem is that they can't look after themselves at home. The 24 hour care plan seems to have gone to the wall and silently dropped which is good as any carer knows it's impossible to fund anyway.

The best place for people with Alzheimers and Dementia is a day centre where they get stimulation which helps slow the decline. Of course there's bad homes like Bolehill which I note isn't on the hit list and it's a smelly dump which is falling to bits.

Talking of surveys I just completed one by the Alzheimers Society and boy does it come out with PC rubbish. Would you Mother be able to take part in the community such as leisure and social activities ?? Of course she bloody can't only in early stages of disease.

Another corker is What one thing do you feel could help a person with Dementia too remain more independent and play an active role in the community. God knows who wrote the survey but they haven't meant someone with Dementia. My mother lost that ability in the first year. Perhaps they want a few Patients thumping people.

Mind Boggling stupidity.

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OK guys, this is a very emotive subject but lets try and ditch the mud slinging + personal stuff and get back to some sensible debate and discussion.

Cheers :good:

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Hi Guys

The Pit, I work for social work services, the elderly, before I worked as a school teacher, You do the kind of job you are in because in a nutshell.. we care. we care so much and are committed to what we do to the extent where we make some pretty big sacrifices, emotional, pyhsical and financial. It is really hard to stay objective when dealing with such issues, these are living breathing organisms we are dealing with here, not just the end of using a ride on lawn mower or a pile load of books. We care so much about happens to these people. These very same people can vulnerable and so cannot fight for themselves so we fight for them.

This has been happening in Highland Council with SWS for about 18 months and in education for about 5 years, it isnt good news, it is the part of the silent cuts that the government can wash there hands off and say its the councils fault. Many have the wool pulled over there eyes.

And the sad this is many of the people we should as society being taking the greatest care of (old and young) are going to suffer, some will fall ill and some will die.

The hard facts behins an emotive subject.

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Care in the home is a good idea in principle. However ask any carer and they'll say it wont work. Actually 24 hour care isn't 24 hour it's just carers going into the home more often. However what happens when the patient is violent and gets angry easily? Who provides the stimulation for when they're at home? Most of all who provides the money?

The previous Government promised extra money towards Dementia before the recession. This involved training for Doctors and nurses how to handle dementia. You'll be amazed how clueless most of the NHS is dealing with Dementia. The sad thing is not providing more money will cost the Government more in lost working hours Hospital beds than they will save by dumping them at home.

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yes you are right about 24 hour care Pit, its a name but unless you pay privately to have someone stay the night then 24 hour care is something else. Maybe as early as 6am, and that is probably going to trigger a rather nasty response from the dementia sufferer, and how ever many times then until they are put to bed. My experience suggests that can be as early as 5-6pm. So to call it 24 hour care is highly misleading.

People needing that level of care really should be in a care home with full 24 hour attention. Best for them, although they almost certainly will not want it, and certainly best for the person nearest to them, be it father/mother/son/daughter or whoever. You can then set aside some time most days to visit, perhaps take them out, but give them quality time knowing you can return to normality in your life each day. That may sound selfish but I honestly do not think it is.

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My perspective is as it's always been: during times of 'austerity' the young, the old, the sick and the disabled are always the first to be seen as 'dead wood'... It's the same the whole world over?

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The only way the government can achieve cutbacks of 25% is by stopping some of the services people have grown accustomed to receiving. The cuts are going to be far deeper than anything experienced during the Thatcher years. It doesn't make them right but the country can no longer afford to provide them. Labour spent every last penny and there is nothing left.

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The only way the government can achieve cutbacks of 25% is by stopping some of the services people have grown accustomed to receiving. The cuts are going to be far deeper than anything experienced during the Thatcher years. It doesn't make them right but the country can no longer afford to provide them. Labour spent every last penny and there is nothing left.

So you're saying people should die, living in squaller their own excrement or from starvation. I should sacrifice my job my life and my carer and my own pension because the state doesn't care enough to help someone who's paid taxes national insurance.

How about cutting out the health tourists???

Sacking some of the pen pushers in the NHs???

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So you're saying people should die, living in squaller their own excrement or from starvation. I should sacrifice my job my life and my carer and my own pension because the state doesn't care enough to help someone who's paid taxes national insurance.

How about cutting out the health tourists???

Sacking some of the pen pushers in the NHs???

I am not saying any of that ............... but to achieve cuts of 25% in public spending there are going to be some very difficult decisions. The UK (as with most western governments) can no longer afford to provide the services that everybody has come to expect. It is going to be very painful for all concerned.

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My view has always been that we should aim for a positive approach of trying to make maximum cuts in areas of inefficiency, thus meaning that we only have to make the minimum amount of "painful" cuts that are necessary.

The defeatist "we have to make painful cuts because that's life, and it can't be helped because that's just the way it is" sort of approach presents a danger that, in focusing too much on the negatives, we might overlook positive ways of addressing the problem, meaning we make fewer inefficiency cuts than we can and end up having to make significantly more cuts in "painful" areas than are necessary.

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So you're saying people should die, living in squaller their own excrement or from starvation. I should sacrifice my job my life and my carer and my own pension because the state doesn't care enough to help someone who's paid taxes national insurance.

We are almost born with the idea now its someone else’s problem.

We have to get away from ‘it’s the states responsibility’ and it won’t be easy to remove that mind set.

However when us baby boomers of the 1950s and 1960s start to need additional care we will need a fundamental shift.

Its not about ‘do they not care enough’ it’s about money and expectations.

In the ‘old days’ it was defacto you looked after your own. Now it’s someone else’s problem.

For example someone here at work was angry £300,000 of her fathers money (her inheritance as she says) was being ‘used up’ to care for her dad.

She feels the state should pay ‘he paid his taxes all his life type approach.

This can’t go on of course, particularly after 2025

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We are paying for the care but My Mother can't live alone at home. I'm doing the best I can but eventually she will need more care than I can provide and that is a home.

Just cutting services thinking these people will disappear is simply a third world country approach.

Somebody from the council came too assess my mothers needs for getting around the house. Now due to the data protection act she has no information at all about my mothers health. Luckily I was in and not in seventies and was able to tell her what she needed too know. This wasted half n hour of her time. Now taking that as ball park number say eight visits a day that's 240 minutes a day 20 hours a week. Say she works 46 weeks a year that's 920 hours. I don't know how much she gets paid by the council 920 hours are wasted at least a year.

Same with another nurse that we had in.

That sort of wastage is the first thing you deal with.

In the old days my mother would have probably died by now..... before dementia set in. If I didn't live at home she would have died by now.

Stewfox your friend at work is right they have paid for they are in fact paying twice as you pay taxes on your pension. They parent probably worked hard setting up a nest egg too pass on yet fell ill. They should at least be able to give some to their children. How many times have I explained to my mother or tried that she can't sign the house over to me and she says it's my home my money I should be able to do what I want with it.

The costs of Dementia http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-11381229

I am not saying any of that ............... but to achieve cuts of 25% in public spending there are going to be some very difficult decisions. The UK (as with most western governments) can no longer afford to provide the services that everybody has come to expect. It is going to be very painful for all concerned.

But you are though if you actually think about it. Actually you ought to go to a home that deals with Dementia and ask to visit the day centre. Do it a couple of times then go to the 24 hour care side. You'll realise that these people cannot be left alone at home.

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In the old days my mother would have probably died by now..... before dementia set in. If I didn't live at home she would have died by now.

Stewfox your friend at work is right they have paid for they are in fact paying twice as you pay taxes on your pension. They parent probably worked hard setting up a nest egg too pass on yet fell ill. They should at least be able to give some to their children. How many times have I explained to my mother or tried that she can't sign the house over to me and she says it's my home my money I should be able to do what I want with it.

I am not suggesting it is right or wrong for someone who has perhaps saved all their lives to see it go on health care in there last few years and none go to their loved ones.

Cf someone who has been on benefits most of their life’s and gets the same treatment.

However I’m not coming from a ‘moral’ view rather then an ‘economic’ view, we as you say live longer.

If I had been born.

200 years ago I would now be dead (burst appendix aged 12).

75 years ago I would be dead (untreated heart arrhythmia).

Etc etc

I hope with modern care to live till I’m 96 and get all that I paid in back by the time I'm 86

Who pays for this ?

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Last time I checked we paid for it we get a bill every month.

But then you're saying if you can't pay for it out in the street and die.

The question for future support I answered a long time ago in another thread.

Very simple you pay a small amount out of your wages per month and that goes into a pot just in case. If you don't need it goes in a general pot. As to whether that's a general bank account or some type of bond is another matter.

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Last time I checked we paid for it we get a bill every month.

But then you're saying if you can't pay for it out in the street and die.

The question for future support I answered a long time ago in another thread.

Very simple you pay a small amount out of your wages per month and that goes into a pot just in case. If you don't need it goes in a general pot. As to whether that's a general bank account or some type of bond is another matter.

That’s called the National Health Service.

If you want to double the contribution that’s fine.

It will have to double in the next 20yrs anyway.

An aging population will have to find more for welfare which of course starts with working longer.

What going to be ‘difficult’ is to ‘remove’ is this ‘dependence’ on the state.

We couldn’t do it cira 0-1940s and I would suggest we can’t after 2020.

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That’s called the National Health Service.

If you want to double the contribution that’s fine.

It will have to double in the next 20yrs anyway.

An aging population will have to find more for welfare which of course starts with working longer.

What going to be ‘difficult’ is to ‘remove’ is this ‘dependence’ on the state.

We couldn’t do it cira 0-1940s and I would suggest we can’t after 2020.

Nope I'm referring to a new set up which should allow the government to cater for future growth of the elder generation.

You're confusing depending on the state. They don't willingly depend on the state the state has either got them in the position by giving medication that's prolonged their life or withheld medication which caused a rapid decline in health that may have been prevented with earlier intervention.

Like I said I think you need to visit one of the homes to get an understanding of the disease.

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In my experience the very best thing that happened to my grandmother was going into a care home. In fact, if she had gone in a year earlier rather than trying to stay at home Im certain her overall level of health would be much better than it is now (obviously the choice to stay at home is a right if the person wants to and is able to make that choice).

The sad fact of life now is that government and councils will do everything in their power to ensure those on the fringe are not a statistic, which generally means doing everything in their power to enable themselves to ignore or side step anyone with a pulse who might even look like they may be able to look after themselves or get a free carer. the long term damage on those needing help will be obvious.

Reminds me of friends of mine who find the only way they can get their mentally ill brother to safety is by sectioning him (the other alternative would be to give him a knife and let him walk the streets as thats the only time the cops will get involved - threat of death)

Its not hyperbole its a fact and things are only going to get worse now.

My thoughts and best wishes to all with those needing help and support.

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Too anybody thinking it's an easy game My Mother was suddenly very ill tonight.

1) I had to kick the bathroom door in as she couldn't work out how too unlock it. Doesn't take much though.

2) between me and my mother was a floor covered in thick very smelly excrement which meant I had to clean that up first.

3) In the meantime she was sick again.

4) Once I cleared the smelly stuff up I had to then dry the floor as it was too slippy.

5) I then had to shower her for obvious reasons. Sometimes she shakes so much in these cases it takes two to undress her this time she wasn't shaking too badly.

6) Showered her and you have to do this quickly because old people get cold yet you got to clear the mess off.

7) At the last hurdle the carers came and was able to pass the baton of drying her and getting her to bed which allowed me to fill the washer machine.

Dealt with but now I have no respite for the weekend as she can't go into the day centre and I could be on sick duties all weekend.

Now what does a person on their own do??? Do we treat them like the UK is a third world country or do we care for them???

In my experience the very best thing that happened to my grandmother was going into a care home. In fact, if she had gone in a year earlier rather than trying to stay at home Im certain her overall level of health would be much better than it is now (obviously the choice to stay at home is a right if the person wants to and is able to make that choice).

The sad fact of life now is that government and councils will do everything in their power to ensure those on the fringe are not a statistic, which generally means doing everything in their power to enable themselves to ignore or side step anyone with a pulse who might even look like they may be able to look after themselves or get a free carer. the long term damage on those needing help will be obvious.

Reminds me of friends of mine who find the only way they can get their mentally ill brother to safety is by sectioning him (the other alternative would be to give him a knife and let him walk the streets as thats the only time the cops will get involved - threat of death)

Its not hyperbole its a fact and things are only going to get worse now.

My thoughts and best wishes to all with those needing help and support.

The above post basically sums the care in this country for the needy. My own experience is you have to fight for everything because social services are only interested in saving money.

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You may post some -ve ideas at times Pit but reading the last post from you about trying to cope with your mother and I think most on here would have nothing but a mix of admiration and respect for what you have to deal with, along with an understanding of just why you get so cross with your local authority.

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You may post some -ve ideas at times Pit but reading the last post from you about trying to cope with your mother and I think most on here would have nothing but a mix of admiration and respect for what you have to deal with, along with an understanding of just why you get so cross with your local authority.

Thanks John.

Perhaps that's why I'm also negative at times. I'll be glad when it's over as I'm going to take a long holiday.

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Pit, I am sorry to hear about your mum. It is not always easy being part of a family. My mother-in-law died from MS. My brother, aged 46 suffers with paranoid schizophrenia. Trying to get the authorities to provide the help you need is not always straight forward. Carers, like yourself, do play a very important role and they do not get the credit they deserve for the 'job of love' that they do day-in day-out.

However, the cuts are coming. People need to get used to being more self reliant. Families, voluntary groups, and the wider community need to start caring for their own. You are more than doing your bit by caring for your mum and good on you for doing it. Everybody else needs to start doing their bit to help!

My folks come out to stay with us over the UK winter - it is our way of providing some respite care to my parents whose own health is not that great.

We are almost born with the idea now its someone else’s problem.

We have to get away from ‘it’s the states responsibility’ and it won’t be easy to remove that mind set.

However when us baby boomers of the 1950s and 1960s start to need additional care we will need a fundamental shift.

Its not about ‘do they not care enough’ it’s about money and expectations.

In the ‘old days’ it was defacto you looked after your own. Now it’s someone else’s problem.

For example someone here at work was angry £300,000 of her fathers money (her inheritance as she says) was being ‘used up’ to care for her dad.

She feels the state should pay ‘he paid his taxes all his life type approach.

This can’t go on of course, particularly after 2025

Good post stewfox - I totally agree.

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Voluntary groups are being cut as well as they depend on gifts and some money from the council. Other problems charities have is lack of volunteers which I understand fully. So groups and charities great if you got one nearby but otherwise not much use.

Who's also going to provide the training for community groups. Not just a case of walk in and deal with things you know.

*********************************************************************************************************************************

Anyway got to bed at 11 last night couldn't be bothered to move the last bit of washing across to the dryer as I was too tired.

Slept with one ear cocked in case anything else goes wrong during the night. Basically this means as soon as they move you're awake listening in case assistance is needed.

Up at six to clear up and sort out the dryer.

Went shopping at 07:30 when carers came to get mother up.

Mother much better but can't remember anything about it so I'm just getting steady abuse. Not happy about not being able to go to the day centre but it's 48 hours she'll have to wait.

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As ever much worse this morning.

Carers got nowhere with her refused tablets everything. Finally after over an hour we got her to bed. At that point she got angry and the carer had to leave.

As soon as she left Mother let me dress her. I then got her to have a nap which made all the difference and I gave the meds later.

Hopefully she keep having a nap as that's probably the best thing for her for now.

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strewth Pit what a life you have, I'll try to remember what you have day after day the next time I grimace at a -ve post!

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I have every sympathy for what sounds like a difficult position for you Pit.

However, is it just a case that your local authority isn't very good at adminstering the care services it is obliged to do.

For one, I thought NHS spending was ringfenced from cuts, with only efficiency savings being sought rather than frontline services coming under pressure.

On a broader note regarding cuts and not just regarding the health service, 25% should be easily achieved without too much pain if a few private sector principles were to be applied to the public sector. I know some clients of mine that have achieved this over the last couple of years without necessarily just cutting 25% of their business (which would be pointless anyway). Without it, some of them might not be here now and whilst a few people have lost their jobs, it has been good proactive management in other areas that has achieved most of the savings.

Finally, and on the broader issue of cuts, there is one argument of the governments that is severely flawed and that is that as the private sector grows it will take on those leaving the public sector as it slims down. Frankly, from what I have seen of public sector workers, many would be simply unemployable in a private sector environment and would last about two minutes.

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