Antarctic Ice Discussion

[Relativistic]

Concerning.

Norwegian seafloor holds clue to Antarctic melting
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-65192825

[reef]

Antarctic ice looking pretty dire this year: 

Antarctic sea ice hits record low | Official blog of the Met Office news team

BLOG.METOFFICE.GOV.UK

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The extent of sea ice around Antarctica is at a record low for the end of June. The current Antarctic sea ice extent is over 1.3 million sq km below the next lowest recorded extent for the time of year. That shortfall is more...

The report is from 30th June but it has continued through July and is now over 2 million sq km below the 1981-2020 average.

 

[Methuselah]

3 minutes ago, reef said:

Antarctic ice looking pretty dire this year: 

Antarctic sea ice hits record low | Official blog of the Met Office news team

BLOG.METOFFICE.GOV.UK

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The extent of sea ice around Antarctica is at a record low for the end of June. The current Antarctic sea ice extent is over 1.3 million sq km below the next lowest recorded extent for the time of year. That shortfall is more...

The report is from 30th June but it has continued through July and is now over 2 million sq km below the 1981-2020 average.

 

It just makes one wonder just how much evidence some folks need? 

[ANYWEATHER]

Sea ice very similar to 1986....

[Paul]

You say that, but it's actually 1 million sq kilometres less.. So, yep the picture looks similar and 1986 was the previous low, but clearly there's even less sea ice than even then..

https://nsidc.org/arcticseaicenews/

Quote

Both Arctic and Antarctic sea ice appear to be heading toward their respective seasonal limits, reaching the lowest extent at the end of summer in the north, and the highest extent as winter ends in the south. In the Antarctic, high variability typically characterizes the period around the maximum, but at present the sea ice extent is more than 1 million square kilometers (386,000 square miles) below the previous record low maximum set in 1986.

 

[Geordiesnow]

Obviously my knowledge on the Antarctic is quite limited but whilst the numbers look concerning, I be a bit wary to say it's down to climate change and we are past a tipping point especially as we were at record highs just less than 10 years ago.

Unlike the Arctic, Antarctic ice is influenced by oceans, local weather patterns and does not tend to have multi year ice so it could easily bounce back I feel. 

[ANYWEATHER]

As been said it’s only 9 years since Antarctica had its highest sea ice extent on record for satellite era . Why did the sea ice extent rise so quickly in a supposedly Global warming era? Is this a natural cycle …….

[Gray-Wolf]

19 hours ago, ANYWEATHER said:

As been said it’s only 9 years since Antarctica had its highest sea ice extent on record for satellite era . Why did the sea ice extent rise so quickly in a supposedly Global warming era? Is this a natural cycle …….

They tell us ut was a direct result of the Ozone hole messing with the Katabatic winds pushing ice further out from the coast (like the 'ice factory we saw in Bering straights, Spring 2012?)

Like many things though (incl. the Nino in progress?) warming eventually overpowers such forcings & takes over as the main driver?

This is a disastrous start to the melt season there with an area 5v times the size of the UK accepting Solar from the 'get-go'

 

If the Southern hemisphere takes over where we in the north left off (it seems so with the spate of heatwaves already suffered by that Hemisphere, NZ being the latest & it's only just Equinox???) then they will have their own 'Heat Domes & Ocean Heatwaves all of which will have interactions with Antarctica.....oh Yeah....& a Super Nino thrown in for good measure?

[Penguin16]

The sea-ice surrounding Antarctica is well below any previous recorded winter level, satellite data shows.

"It's so far outside anything we've seen, it's almost mind-blowing," says Walter Meier, who monitors sea-ice with the National Snow and Ice Data Center.

The ice that floats on the Antarctic Ocean's surface now measures less than 17 million sq km - that is 1.5 million sq km of sea-ice less than the September average, and well below previous winter record lows.

That's an area of missing ice about five times the size of the British Isles.

[Mike Poole]

56 minutes ago, Penguin16 said:

The sea-ice surrounding Antarctica is well below any previous recorded winter level, satellite data shows.

"It's so far outside anything we've seen, it's almost mind-blowing," says Walter Meier, who monitors sea-ice with the National Snow and Ice Data Center.

The ice that floats on the Antarctic Ocean's surface now measures less than 17 million sq km - that is 1.5 million sq km of sea-ice less than the September average, and well below previous winter record lows.

That's an area of missing ice about five times the size of the British Isles.

This for me, is one of the two most staggering graphs of the year, from a weather/climate perspective!

The other one is this one:

It is hard not to draw the conclusion that this year specifically, we are heading into unchartered territory re the climate.

[ANYWEATHER]

On 21/09/2023 at 13:58, Penguin16 said:

The sea-ice surrounding Antarctica is well below any previous recorded winter level, satellite data shows.

"It's so far outside anything we've seen, it's almost mind-blowing," says Walter Meier, who monitors sea-ice with the National Snow and Ice Data Center.

The ice that floats on the Antarctic Ocean's surface now measures less than 17 million sq km - that is 1.5 million sq km of sea-ice less than the September average, and well below previous winter record lows.

That's an area of missing ice about five times the size of the British Isles.

So during the Satillite era then, the ice around Antartica has fluctuated from record high to record low in 44 years...So what was it like before....? Assumptions on sea ice in just 44 years gives no clue to what will happen in the future,  indeed , what happened before 1979 is still a mystery ....or perhaps its not..?

Edited September 29, 2023 by ANYWEATHER

[alexisj9]

On 15/02/2018 at 23:48, tablet said:

Is the sea level rising ?  ( other than the normal rate of 1.5mm  + or -  0.2 annually ) - https://journals.ametsoc.org/doi/abs/10.1175/JCLI-D-17-0502.1

Well technically you just answered your own question, it rising by 1.5mm a year. I have a question, you say that's the normal amount. Wouldn't that mean sea level has been rising since the planet formed. My question is, when did this rise start, and why?

[ANYWEATHER]

9 minutes ago, alexisj9 said:

Well technically you just answered your own question, it rising by 1.5mm a year. I have a question, you say that's the normal amount. Wouldn't that mean sea level has been rising since the planet formed. My question is, when did this rise start, and why?

Sea level is not rising......

[alexisj9]

On 21/09/2023 at 13:43, Gray-Wolf said:

They tell us ut was a direct result of the Ozone hole messing with the Katabatic winds pushing ice further out from the coast (like the 'ice factory we saw in Bering straights, Spring 2012?)

Like many things though (incl. the Nino in progress?) warming eventually overpowers such forcings & takes over as the main driver?

This is a disastrous start to the melt season there with an area 5v times the size of the UK accepting Solar from the 'get-go'

 

If the Southern hemisphere takes over where we in the north left off (it seems so with the spate of heatwaves already suffered by that Hemisphere, NZ being the latest & it's only just Equinox???) then they will have their own 'Heat Domes & Ocean Heatwaves all of which will have interactions with Antarctica.....oh Yeah....& a Super Nino thrown in for good measure?

Think it's already happening, there where quite a few winter heat waves in the southern hemisphere this winter, including temps hitting 40⁰ in South America a few times. Yes the area effected is usually warm in winter compared to Europe, but not that warm.

[Scuba steve]

This Antarctic ice thing is very controversial some respected sites say it’s growing by 0.3 gigatons PA 

[alexisj9]

24 minutes ago, ANYWEATHER said:

So during the Satillite era then, the ice around Antartica has fluctuated from record high to record low in 44 years...So what was it like before....? Assumptions on sea ice in just 44 years gives no clue to what will happen in the future,  indeed , what happened before 1979 is still a mystery ....or perhaps its not..?

I don't think you get it, cause sea ice it's self wouldn't change water levels, it's the melting glaciers on land doing the damage.

[ANYWEATHER]

17 minutes ago, alexisj9 said:

I don't think you get it, cause sea ice it's self wouldn't change water levels, it's the melting glaciers on land doing the damage.

Can you give us more insight please on melting Glaciers on land doing the damage? Whatever leaks over land , surely finds itself to the sea? But displacement is another matter...

[jonboy]

4 minutes ago, ANYWEATHER said:

Can you give us more insight please on melting Glaciers on land doing the damage? Whatever leaks over land , surely finds itself to the sea? But displacement is another matter...

I liken sea ice to ice in a glass of water. If left alone the ice in your glass will melt but it won't make the water higher as it replaces the displacement like for like. 

So for seas to rise because of ice melt that has to come from land ice not sea ice.

[ANYWEATHER]

36 minutes ago, jonboy said:

I liken sea ice to ice in a glass of water. If left alone the ice in your glass will melt but it won't make the water higher as it replaces the displacement like for like. 

So for seas to rise because of ice melt that has to come from land ice not sea ice.

Yes ….perhaps , probably much more complicated than that ….

[Scuba steve]

28 minutes ago, ANYWEATHER said:

Yes ….perhaps , probably much more complicated than that ….

Heat expansion maybe ,quick I’ll sell my A M G and buy a Nissan leaf

[Mixer 85]

11 hours ago, ANYWEATHER said:

So during the Satillite era then, the ice around Antartica has fluctuated from record high to record low in 44 years...So what was it like before....? Assumptions on sea ice in just 44 years gives no clue to what will happen in the future,  indeed , what happened before 1979 is still a mystery ....or perhaps its not..?

Pre 1979 is no longer a mystery thanks to Nimbus satellite data which showes huge variations through the 60s so large fluctuations like we’re seeing currently don’t appear to be that uncommon.

excerpt from the linked article; 

“We were shocked by what we discovered in these images,” says Gallaher. “We thought, OK, all reports from the 1960s were that it was colder, so we expected to see a lot more sea ice. In fact, 1964 was the largest sea ice extent until 2014. Then in 1966 we saw the lowest ice extent that was ever seen. This was totally unexpected. There’s a lot more variability in sea ice extent than we ever could have imagined.”

Meier agrees. “Even in the passive microwave record for the Antarctic you see these seesaws where the ice concentrations go up and down, so extreme high or extreme low are not that unusual,” he says. “What the Nimbus data tell us is that there’s variability in the Antarctic sea ice that’s larger than any we had seen from the passive microwave data. Nimbus helps put this in a longer term context and extends the record.”

New Data From Old Satellites: A Nimbus Success Story | Earthdata

WWW.EARTHDATA.NASA.GOV

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The Earth Observing System Data and Information System is a key core capability in NASA’s Earth Science Data Systems Program. It provides end-to-end capabilities...

 

[ANYWEATHER]

18 minutes ago, Mixer 85 said:

Pre 1979 is no longer a mystery thanks to Nimbus satellite data which showes huge variations through the 60s so large fluctuations like we’re seeing currently don’t appear to be that uncommon.

excerpt from the linked article; 

“We were shocked by what we discovered in these images,” says Gallaher. “We thought, OK, all reports from the 1960s were that it was colder, so we expected to see a lot more sea ice. In fact, 1964 was the largest sea ice extent until 2014. Then in 1966 we saw the lowest ice extent that was ever seen. This was totally unexpected. There’s a lot more variability in sea ice extent than we ever could have imagined.”

Meier agrees. “Even in the passive microwave record for the Antarctic you see these seesaws where the ice concentrations go up and down, so extreme high or extreme low are not that unusual,” he says. “What the Nimbus data tell us is that there’s variability in the Antarctic sea ice that’s larger than any we had seen from the passive microwave data. Nimbus helps put this in a longer term context and extends the record.”

New Data From Old Satellites: A Nimbus Success Story | Earthdata

WWW.EARTHDATA.NASA.GOV

---

The Earth Observing System Data and Information System is a key core capability in NASA’s Earth Science Data Systems Program. It provides end-to-end capabilities...

 

Thankyou for that information.  The problem with today's media etc, everything is pumped and blown out of proportion, Mole hills become Mountains etc.! The fact then, is what we are seeing today is no different to the past, but the Scaremongering Brigade have another agenda. Thanks again.

[Penguin16]

Jesus christ the nut jobs on here. Zero point engaging with the absolute dung over the last couple of posts. I wouldn’t dare question the thick as dung window licking agenda and the Facebook experts. Dopes.

[Methuselah]

14 hours ago, alexisj9 said:

I don't think you get it, cause sea ice it's self wouldn't change water levels, it's the melting glaciers on land doing the damage.

So it's 'situation normal', then? 

[Scuba steve]

36 minutes ago, Penguin16 said:

Jesus christ the nut jobs on here. Zero point engaging with the absolute dung over the last couple of posts. I wouldn’t dare question the thick as dung window licking agenda and the Facebook experts. Dopes.

Going  all ad hominem doesn’t help either