Antarctic Ice Discussion

[stewfox]

Quite an interesting video. To my uneducated eye the timing of the destruction of the ozone layer takes on more significance. Of course it's all a conspiracy.

 

http://www.abc.net.au/catalyst/stories/4056545.htm#.U9oZ2hSuyNk.twitter

 

How do they know how the wind patterns have been like over the last 1000yrs ???

 

 

Call me old fashion I still think temps have something to do with sea ice, will be interesting when we get the July update

----------------------

 

Weather patterns over Antarctica during June were characterized by a strong low-pressure pattern over the Amundsen Sea, and lower-than-average air temperatures (1 to 6 degrees Celsius, or 2 to 11 degrees Fahrenheit below average) in the same region. Cool conditions (2 to 3 degrees Celsius or 4 to 5 degrees Fahrenheit below average) surrounded most of the coastal areas of the Antarctic,

----------------

 

http://nsidc.org/arcticseaicenews/

[Devonian]

How do they know how the wind patterns have been like over the last 1000yrs ???

 

You could try asking them. Or try reading the transcript. Or, ......no hang on......., you've made your mind up already that they're wrong and you don't need to do either???

[stewfox]

You could try asking them. Or try reading the transcript. Or, ......no hang on......., you've made your mind up already that they're wrong and you don't need to do either???

 

Have you watched the whole video ?? I did and question remains how do you know what the wind direction was 500 years ago  in a area of open water ?  Can you provide link please I must have missed it.

 

I am just interested.

 

Just seen it , its because they say they are 

 

 

The winds are stronger than at any time in the last thousand years, and the reason can be partly traced back to climate change

Edited August 1, 2014 by stewfox

[knocker]

This is what I find a tad intriguing Dev.

 

 

So it does and the recent data that since 1979, Antarctic sea ice has increased, but not to the extent of the decline that we see since the 1950s.

 

Coinciding with when we created the ozone hole.

[Nights King]

This is what I find a tad intriguing Dev.

 

 

Coinciding with when we created the ozone hole.

 

I find it hard to believe that Antarctica's sea ice was 20% larger in the 1950's before it melted up until 1979 then began to grow.

 

Interesting video although her accent is irritating

Edited August 1, 2014 by mullender83

[stewfox]

I find it hard to believe that Antarctica's sea ice was 20% larger in the 1950's before it melted up until 1979 then began to grow.

 

Interesting video although her accent is irritating

 

I would have thought ship logs would have some data ? 

Edited August 2, 2014 by Nick L
Response to deleted post removed

[Nights King]

I would have thought ship logs would have some data ?

 

 

 

If your going to come up with another theory why not post the reasons behind it ??

 

Be interested with the feed back you get. I assume it based on some global temperature profiling looking at differentials between the equator and the poles cf 1014AD and 2014AD and variations in pressure centres

 

Thanks for volunteering 

 

Maybe they do but I just find it strange that in a world where anything climatic is used as evidence something like that hasn't (to my knowledge) been mentioned before?

[stewfox]

Maybe they do but I just find it strange that in a world where anything climatic is used as evidence something like that hasn't (to my knowledge) been mentioned before?

 

An article from 2004 is where I assume the figure comes from. Obviously the ice has continued to expand since then.

 

http://www.antarctica.gov.au/about-us/publications/australian-antarctic-magazine/2001-2005/issue-6-autumn-2004/feature/ice-core-evidence-for-20-decline-in-antarctic-sea-ice-extent-since-the-1950s

 

This leads to another report suggesting a 20% decline as at 1995 cf 1950s

 

So there you have it a 2014 article refereing to a report written in 1995 about the Eastern Antarctica to 'support' their work

 

---------------

They used this correlation to apply an instrumental calibration to the longer MSA record 

(1841 to 1995 A.D.) producing a proxy record or sea ice extent in the East Antarctic 

sector 80o-140oE. The results suggested that there has been a 20% decline in sea ice 

extent since about 1950. 

 

http://www2.umaine.edu/itase/content/Abstracts/Curran.pdf

Edited August 2, 2014 by stewfox

[Devonian]

Maybe they do but I just find it strange that in a world where anything climatic is used as evidence something like that hasn't (to my knowledge) been mentioned before?

 

The great HH Lamb thought ships logs a valuable source of data, others have continued that research. 

[Gray-Wolf]

I thought it was common knowledge that Antarctic sea ice had been in decline until it turned around in the early 80's? 

 

I have always made a point of illustrating the close relationship of our 'man made' CFC ozone destruction and the current uptick in extent to illustrate how 'Man' is behind the current blip?

 

Everyone should be mindful though of just how much ocean temps have increased today compared with the 50's to 70's period and figure out for themselves what lies in store, for sea ice extent, once the ozone hole's influence wanes? ( another point of personal amusement is the reaction of Wattsy et al once that warming again takes hold and sea ice sheds its recent ( post 1980) gains and drops below it's historic minimum)

 

To make advantage out of adversity at least they have made a 'poster Boy' for all the denialists out there who will also need explain 'why' their denialist flagship is sinking?

[knocker]

The actual Curran paper.

 

ftp://ftp.soest.hawaii.edu/engels/Stanley/Textbook_update/Science_302/Curran-03.pdf

[keithlucky]

I thought it was common knowledge that Antarctic sea ice had been in decline until it turned around in the early 80's? 

 

I have always made a point of illustrating the close relationship of our 'man made' CFC ozone destruction and the current uptick in extent to illustrate how 'Man' is behind the current blip?

 

Everyone should be mindful though of just how much ocean temps have increased today compared with the 50's to 70's period and figure out for themselves what lies in store, for sea ice extent, once the ozone hole's influence wanes? ( another point of personal amusement is the reaction of Wattsy et al once that warming again takes hold and sea ice sheds its recent ( post 1980) gains and drops below it's historic minimum)

 

To make advantage out of adversity at least they have made a 'poster Boy' for all the denialists out there who will also need explain 'why' their denialist flagship is sinking?

Funny that you cannot accept new records  continue to tumble  for example the coldest  June ever recorded in Antarctic or that you fail to accept that global temperatures are at a standstill which is the general consensus,you cannot accept that contraction and expansion of Arctic and Antarctic ice has been going on since time began ,,nothing that we can do can change natural cycles and nothing politicians or GW supporters can change  natural cycles.   Nothing you or AGW supporters have ever predicted has ever come true.

Edited August 3, 2014 by Paul

[knocker]

Funny that you cannot accept new records  continue to tumble  for example the coldest  June ever recorded in Antarctic or that you fail to accept that global temperatures are at a standstill which is the general consensus,you cannot accept that contraction and expansion of Arctic and Antarctic ice has been going on since time began ,,nothing that we can do can change natural cycles and nothing politicians or GW supporters can change that natural cycles.   Nothing you or AGW supporters have ever predicted has ever come true ,I not going to throw petty personal insults at you because I left the playground 30yrs ago.

 

Can you support this because people might read it and think it's true? And for some reason you have omitted climate change.

 

 

you fail to accept that global temperatures are at a standstill which is the general consensus,y

 

This is a bit jumbled but still arrant nonsense. Pumping billions of tons of carbon into the atmosphere that was stored as part of a natural cycle patently must alter the carbon and hydrological cycles. Plus of course altering the natural radiation balance.

 

 

,nothing that we can do can change natural cycles and nothing politicians or GW supporters can change that natural cycles.

 

Totally irrelevant and for some reason keeps getting repeated. Lung cancer occurred prior to tobacco. Ergo there is no link.

Edited August 3, 2014 by Paul

[mikeworst]

And the panic sets in.

[keithlucky]

Can you support this because people might read it and think it's true? And for some reason you have omitted climate change.

 

 

This is a bit jumbled but still arrant nonsense. Pumping billions of tons of carbon into the atmosphere that was stored as part of a natural cycle patently must alter the carbon and hydrological cycles. Plus of course altering the natural radiation balance.

 

 

Totally irrelevant and for some reason keeps getting repeated. Lung cancer occurred prior to tobacco. Ergo there is no link.

 

 

As for not throwing personal insults you actually went a stage further. Because frankly the post is insulting people's intelligence.

So Knocker you are now Grey Wolf.you not his corner man.Climate change ?AGW gone now lol

Edited August 2, 2014 by keithlucky

[Gray-Wolf]

I'm Spartacus!!!

[keithlucky]

I'm Spartacus!!!

pm Spartacus

Edited August 2, 2014 by keithlucky

[Interitus]

Funny that you cannot accept new records  continue to tumble  for example the coldest  June ever recorded in Antarctic or that you fail to accept that global temperatures are at a standstill which is the general consensus.

 

The concensus is pretty much that global temperatures have been at or near record levels in April, May and June. In our little corner of the world the CET since the start of the year is the highest on record - but of course despite a notably mild winter, snow in parts of the Scottish highlands was possibly record breaking. Clearly warmer temperatures in the short term do not preclude some increases in ice and snow, which vice versa do not rule out warming.

[knocker]

Big data confirms climate extremes are here to stay 

 

In a paper published online today in the journal Scientific Reports, published by Nature, Northeastern researchers Evan Kodra and Auroop Ganguly found that while global temperature is indeed increasing, so too is the variability in temperature extremes. For instance, while each year’s average hottest and coldest temperatures will likely rise, those averages will also tend to fall within a wider range of potential high and low temperate extremes than are currently being observed. This means that even as overall temperatures rise, we may still continue to experience extreme cold snaps, said Kodra. 

Read more at http://scienceblog.com/73634/big-data-confirms-climate-extremes-stay/#qCF1eOjCuPsDvOix.99

 

[Nights King]

The concensus is pretty much that global temperatures have been at or near record levels in April, May and June. In our little corner of the world the CET since the start of the year is the highest on record - but of course despite a notably mild winter, snow in parts of the Scottish highlands was possibly record breaking. Clearly warmer temperatures in the short term do not preclude some increases in ice and snow, which vice versa do not rule out warming.

 

Has anyone got temperature info on this year, is it statistically significant, the warming now this year since the pause?

[Nights King]

 

Big data confirms climate extremes are here to stay 

 

 

 

Is that article really news though? If the global climate warms by 0.5c or even +1c we will all still experience extreme cold and warm as it is just the weather? Even if the climate was cooling which I don't believe it is we would still get record Heatwaves?

 

Apologies it is straying slightly off topic of Antarctica.

Edited August 2, 2014 by mullender83

[knocker]

Is that article really news though? If the global climate warms by 0.5c or even +1c we will all still experience extreme cold and warm as it is just the weather? Even if the climate was cooling which I don't believe it is we would still get record Heatwaves?

 

Apologies it is straying slightly off topic of Antarctica.

 

That was the point m83.. Some insist on posting weather as climate and calling it scepticism.

[mikeworst]

As do others called catastrophilliacs and pronounce it apocalypse.

[Gray-Wolf]

As do others called catastrophilliacs and pronounce it apocalypse.

 

As a catastroptimist I call it a spade.......

[keithlucky]

Antarctic sea ice sets new extent record for July, that new records for 9 of the last 12 months http://nsidc.org/data/seaice_index/index.html,Sea ice average concentration well above average except around peninsula