Antarctic Ice Discussion

[BornFromTheVoid]

No it hasn't! it's all cobblers!

I believe the correct term for this is actually "globowarmthinkery gobbledygook"

[Styx]

Amount of Antarctic seaice each season and its relevance to global warming is somewhat of an irrelevance. It melts in totallity every year, then makes its annual return.

Check http://www.skeptical...gaining-ice.htm

Offers explanation Antarctica v Arctic, and importance and non importance of seaice measurement for each as a GW determinent .

Sorry if its been posted before, haven't read all of the posts in this thread

[laserguy]

No it hasn't! it's all cobblers!

Ya, I knew you'd all come round to my way of thinking eventually. Twas only a matter of time! Congratulations.

[Gray-Wolf]

So we're approaching the new Antarctic melt season. Unlike the Arctic focus will not be on sea ice losses there (esp. from the quarters that hold them up as some kind of 'global balancing act'!!) but on the shelf/glacial losses there.

Once we have enough Daylight I'll be checking up on 'My Crack' on the Ross ice shelf (from Roosevelt island to the centre of the shelf) as this , like the crack on Peterman prior to it's calve this year, has been present since the last major calve from the shelf. It would represent the largest calve that we have witnessed and may well hasten the collapse of the Ice at the Roosevelt island end of the embayment (the section that has the channel that will connect the Ross and Weddell seas) and signal the beginning of the collapse of the E.A.I.S. should we continue producing CO2 beyond 450ppm (IMHO).

[knocker]

Warming ocean could start big shift of Antarctic ice

Fast-flowing and narrow glaciers have the potential to trigger massive changes in the Antarctic ice sheet and contribute to rapid ice-sheet decay and sea-level rise, a new study has found.

Research results published in the journal Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences reveal in more detail than ever before how warming waters in the Southern Ocean are connected intimately with the movement of massive ice-sheets deep in the Antarctic interior.

“It has long been known that narrow glaciers on the edge of the Antarctica act as discrete arteries termed ice streams, draining the interior of the ice sheet,†says Dr Chris Fogwill, an author of the study and an ARC Future Fellow with the UNSW Climate Change Research Centre.

“However, our results have confirmed recent observations suggesting that ocean warming can trigger increased flow of ice through these narrow corridors. This can cause inland sectors of the ice-sheet - some larger than the state of Victoria - to become thinner and flow faster."

http://www.science.unsw.edu.au/news/warming-ocean-could-start-big-shift-antarctic-ice

[Gray-Wolf]

As with the loss of Arctic sea ice some folk will still be arguing that this is not the case long after we start to see the beginning of the draining of the interior (and bring in the 'saddle and lobe' melt there).

[Nights King]

Looks to me like we are nearing and all time high..

I am sure it will melt soon though

[Gray-Wolf]

The issues with an ice cap that extends into the southern oceans is the risk of storm damage. As we saw 2 years ago as much a 1 million Km2 can go over a 3 day span if a deep enough depression trawls in from the ocean.

With the record warm start to spring being felt in NZ (near warmest Aug on record?) The chances of such an extreme event seem high with the interface between cold and warm being so marked?

As with the DMI 80N temp plot for the Arctic over summer the annual " look at the Antarctic sea ice" begins to wear thin. If anyone could show me any impacts that this seasonal ice can have on the planet I'd be open to persuasion that it has significance. As it is we have plenty of data to show that it is of little consequence and in no way offsets the climate interference of the low sea ice levels across the Arctic basin. As with the Arctic's "outside the basin ice" the Antarctic sea ice will be back within normal ranges by Dec and play no part in the melt season there.

In some ways it is good that folk are drawing attention to the southern Continent as changes there are the ones most of science is dreading (due to the impacts across the globe) so the more folk 'switched on' to the issue the better.

We have seen the warm bottom waters working their way around the continent and we will see the eventual breakdown of the 'ozone effect' (by the hole healing or by temps overcoming the forcing) allowing 30 years of warming into the continent overnight. It is good that folk are trying to draw attention there as when these events do occur we will have a large audience to witness them.

All eyes on my crack then?

Edited September 20, 2012 by Gray-Wolf

[laserguy]

All eyes on my crack then?

Excuse me?!

[Methuselah]

Excuse me?!

I think he 'arsed' for that!

[BornFromTheVoid]

Sorry for "butting" in, only we're drifting off topic...

[Interitus]

Excuse me?!

GW was just saying that as the Arctic melt 'bottoms out' he's turning his attention to the opposite pole.

[laserguy]

Sorry for "butting" in, only we're drifting off topic...

I'd rather keep this fun distraction going, but I gotta go to bed ( still up after finishing 'nights' at 6am) !!

[Gray-Wolf]

Not being one to be shy I thought you could all marvel in my crack.

It has been forming since the early noughties and when I spoke to the chaps at McMurdo they told me they had installed an array of seismographs to keep tabs on developments. Some of the ice cliffs at the termination of Ross are 200ft high and the shelf is grounded on the sea bed below. A lot of ice!!!

Edited September 20, 2012 by Gray-Wolf

[Methuselah]

Not being one to be shy I thought you could all marvel in my crack.

It has been forming since the early noughties and when I spoke to the chaps at McMurdo they told me they had installed an array of seismographs to keep tabs on developments. Some of the ice cliffs at the termination of Ross are 200ft high and the shelf is grounded on the sea bed below. A lot of ice!!!

I can certainly think of some rather more comfortable places of an 'array of seismographs'!!!

[Gray-Wolf]

http://www.newsdaily.com/stories/bre88d179-us-ozone/

Seems like the ozone is getting better?

[Gray-Wolf]

I'm glad we've appear to have settled the trivial nature of the 'look Squirrels' conflab.

I'm sure that if we saw one , over 40% bigger than normal , every day since July 28th then the sight of one 1% bigger (on one day) wouldn't mean Jack?

[stewfox]

Do we have the highest extent on record yet ?? Keeps rising

http://nsidc.org/data/seaice_index/images/daily_images/S_stddev_timeseries.png

[BornFromTheVoid]

Do we have the highest extent on record yet ?? Keeps rising

http://nsidc.org/dat..._timeseries.png

I might download their data later and see how it compares to other years. On CT, it looks like a new daily record high will be set soon, but we're currently 110k of the all time high from 2007.

Edited September 26, 2012 by BornFromTheVoid

[Gray-Wolf]

Looks like the circumpolar wind is going to be having a go around the continent over the next 8 days or so? This may well lead to a bit of disruption of the pack edge? If we look back a couple of years we had one storm that took 1 million sq km over a 3 day period? we need remember that this is thin seasonal ice and so does not stand up to the weather very well?

If we continue to see high temps this spring in the southern hemisphere then the marked interface between hot/cold could lead to some very strong storms running around the continent?

[Methuselah]

I don't know, Ian. I think that the increases in Antarctic-ice still have some time to go yet?

[stewfox]

I might download their data later and see how it compares to other years. On CET, it looks like a new daily record high will be set soon, but we're currently 110k of the all time high from 2007.

Can you post a link to that site. Most googles for me when I google Antartica sea ice bring up the Artic

[BornFromTheVoid]

Can you post a link to that site. Most googles for me when I google Antartica sea ice bring up the Artic

Oops, had meant "CT", not "CET"!

If you want, the NSIDC daily Antarctic sea ice extent, 78-10, is here ftp://sidads.colorado.edu/DATASETS/NOAA/G02135/south/daily/data/SH_seaice_extent_final.csv

And 2011 onwards is here ftp://sidads.colorado.edu/DATASETS/NOAA/G02135/south/daily/data/SH_seaice_extent_nrt.csv

[knocker]

A couple of charts.

[keithlucky]

A few days ago new record set http://www.forbes.co...another-record/, Continued growth of sea ice for 33yrs http://arctic.atmos....y.antarctic.pngm