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4wd

When Do Activists Go Too Far?

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I came across this blog post from Australia which highlights a disturbing trend in recent years.

In several fields, campaigners decide they are so sure they must be 'right' and society at large needs to change it's ways that they will stop at almost nothing to try to bully us into their way of thinking.

The target is way too sophisticated for such a simplistic plan to work though, and the main effect is pretty much the opposite of what's desired I would think.

http://blogs.news.com.au/heraldsun/andrewbolt/index.php/heraldsun/comments/column_the_freen_totalitarian_itch/

In fact, it’s exactly this inner tyrant that Greenpeace has deliberately sought to tempt with its commercial featuring a hooded boy coached into believing adults are killing his world.

“By the time I grow up there won’t be any fish left in the sea,†he says with a menacing scowl.

“Clean air will be a thing of the past, polar ice caps will be gone, oceans will rise, entire countries will disappear ... There could be famine, worldwide epidemics ...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vgvnqv1-_D4

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Scare tactics at their worst. Sounds kinda threatening at the end :cold:

Though it's only Greenpeace, not all climate campaigners!

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I'm not a fan of most environmental campaign groups these days, and I say that as a bit of an environmentalist myself. When environment and politics mix it seems that campaigners tend to be drawn to the most authoritarian possible ways of achieving their goals- the goals themselves are often very good, but I tend to find issues with the ways in which they want us to work towards them. However, the campaigns mentioned in that article and in the Youtube link are not typical, they are particularly extreme cases.

I don't agree entirely with the article though, for instance it is very dismissive of being sterilised for environmental reasons. I am against the attitude of "those who have children are helping to cause AGW and should be ashamed of themselves", but no more so than the (far more popular) attitude of "those who don't have children are unnatural and should be ashamed of themselves". Being sterilised, in itself, says nothing about the person's attitude towards those who have children.

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Want to get people to notice you?

Get a group of 80 people in each main road near every city in the UK and stop traffic with bullhorns and signs. Do that on a rotational basis twice a week (during weekdays) and see how it hurts business-as-usual.

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but no more so than the (far more popular) attitude of "those who don't have children are unnatural and should be ashamed of themselves".

what a load of nonsense...i have never come across this attitude let alone it being a popular one!

As for activist going too far..many are just people who will want to cause trouble with scoiety in general and latch on to any cause to do so.

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Violent demonstration is nothing new, (e.g. Peasants Revolt), and it tends to be history that dictates whether those violent demonstrators turned out to be 'right' or not. I would guess that most people reading this can think of a number of violent demonstrations in the past which they now nod sagely about and agree were necessary to 'effect much needed change' or 'overthrow oppression' etc etc, and yet you can bet that at the time those same violent demonstrations were actually happening there were plenty of people tutting about how terrible it all is/was, how that's 'not the way to go about things', that it 'risks alienating the important moderate supporters' and 'there are ways to conduct constructive debate and this isn't/wasn't one of them'.................

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It's not "a load of nonsense" just because you haven't come across it. Some circles within society are more tolerant than others, so some of it depends on what circles you are with. In addition, like with all "you're bad for being different" attitudes, it only crops up when people violate the expected norm, so naturally, most of those who have always wanted children will not have come across it.

But most people who don't want children, or are keeping an open mind on whether they have children or not, will have come across this attitude. A Google search for "I don't want to have children" will return over 16 million hits, a large majority of which bear out what I said earlier.

As for these violent demonstrations, we can, indeed, point back to various demonstrations that people look back to and think were necessary to initiate much-needed change. But, for instance, how many of them really alienated moderate supporters, or advocated very draconian ways of working towards particular goals? Probably not very many. In the meantime, we can also point back to various demonstrations that resulted in particular goals being achieved at a large cost due to associated authoritarian policies- like for example the media's wars against terrorism and child-molesters, and while many people think that cost is necessary because "the minority spoil it" etc, I don't agree with them.

It is entirely possible that strong environmental demonstrations will be needed to bring about much-needed change but I have serious doubts about ones like the ones shown in this thread. If there was a very strong, scaremongering demonstration aimed at encouraging sustainability at as high a level as realistically possible, it might be another matter.

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I guess a little discord gives all sorts a dross the opportunity for 'action'...even if most of it consists of nothing more than Internet babble??

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1. This 'film' will do more harm to the climate change religion than any other contribution. Ever.

2. Delingpole will rip that 'film' to pieces.

3. A couple of years from now, the makers will be truly embarrassed, not just at the crassness of this 'film', but of the damage done to their favourite religion.

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Or more likely, it will do a lot of harm to the 'religion' perpetuated by the extremists on the pro-AGW side of the debate. Chances are, in the meantime, prevailing belief in human influences on the climate will be as strong as ever.

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There is a Monty Python element to it, but this goes over the heads of many.

Change the ones being blown up to Black, Moslems or Gay and it would be banned immediately!

Even more sinister ideas are at lurking in this field:

http://www.prisonplanet.com/global-warming-alarmist-calls-for-eco-gulags-to-re-educate-climate-deniers.html

They'll only get worse as economic worries cause many governments to quietly drop hastily agreed CO2 reduction targets.

It becomes a form of psychosis in some people, totally dominating their thinking.

Comparisons with intolerant religious groups are sadly very valid.

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Even more sinister ideas are at lurking in this field:

http://www.prisonplanet.com/global-warming-alarmist-calls-for-eco-gulags-to-re-educate-climate-deniers.html

They'll only get worse as economic worries cause many governments to quietly drop hastily agreed CO2 reduction targets.

It becomes a form of psychosis in some people, totally dominating their thinking.

Comparisons with intolerant religious groups are sadly very valid.

I'm not being funny, but how can one extrapolate the kind of 'threat' described in that article from the ravings of an obvious crack-pot ??? Are you seriously suggesting that the eco-movement is engaged in a global covert plan to "send climate change deniers to be “re-educated†in eco-gulags and that the vast majority of humans be killed with the rest enslaved and controlled by a green police state, with people forcibly sterilized, cars confiscated and travel restricted to members of the elite" ??? The article is frankly ridiculous, ("As part of his eco-fascist hell, Linkola calls for ‘killing defectives’ by means of sterilization, licenses for births, tight regulation of electricity, forcing humans to eat rats, the confiscation of private cars, travel to be restricted to members of the elite only, and businesses to be terminated as the economy is entirely handed over to the control of the state" !!!), many passages had me laughing out loud. This is a perfect example of why the internet does not always stand up to scrutiny - for every example of a well researched well presented balanced account, there are a thousand examples of nonsense masquerading as 'proper journalism'.

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These people are out there.

Portraying them as harmless cranks makes little difference when they are already influencing others to take real actions such as the Discovery Channel hostage bomber.

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These people are out there.

Portraying them as harmless cranks makes little difference when they are already influencing others to take real actions such as the Discovery Channel hostage bomber.

There are all sorts of dangerous and crazy people 'out there', and in any mass movement just going by the law of averages there's bound to be a few that will align themselves with that movement. It doesn't mean they have any wider influence on that movement, or have anything relevant to contribute. And there will always be madmen who are prepared to commit evil acts, often all they are looking for is any excuse, it just so happens that the eco-movement is high profile at present, so one they can easily latch onto. I think you were spot-on to begin with - Monty Python.

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They're so embarrassed by the adverse comments it's now been hidden - but I copied it :drinks:

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1. This 'film' will do more harm to the climate change religion than any other contribution. Ever.

2. Delingpole will rip that 'film' to pieces.

3. A couple of years from now, the makers will be truly embarrassed, not just at the crassness of this 'film', but of the damage done to their favourite religion.

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/jamesdelingpole/100056586/eco-fascism-jumps-the-shark-massive-epic-fail/

Part 1 and part 2 complete

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