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Turnedoutniceagain

Proposed Defence Cuts

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Scarey isn't it?

One interesting piece of info. At a family BBQ last night, I was talking to my brother in law who works on the Trident Submarines at Devonport Dockyard. Even if the government decided tomorrow to end Trident, the exit from Trident including the decommissing of the S Type subs would take at conservate estimates around 15 to 20 years. - there are still the parts from HMS Trafalgar to be sorted out- not least the nuclear components...

Sadly it's looking more and more likely that Devonport will become just a submarine dumping ground....

What a farce.

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http://www.telegraph...One-levels.html

Are the NW members sleeping soundly tonight, knowing that very soon our entire Armed Forces won't be able to fill Wembley stadium??

:)

I'm more surprised that Wembley Stadium has reached that kind of capacity! Do we really need/ can we afford a huge military, especially when we are savagely cutting education budgets,pensions, child benefit, benefits for the disabled (I mean for the love of god how can they sleep at night after doing that?), removing people from council homes they've lived in all their lives while not investing in any new social housing and axing over a million jobs? Are those not perhaps bigger issues than whether we have enough soldiers to fit in a large football stadium?

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Bring back National Service and we can cheaply increase the size of the Armed Forces whilst getting a shed load of layabouts off 'benefits'.

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Bring back National Service and we can cheaply increase the size of the Armed Forces whilst getting a shed load of layabouts off 'benefits'.

Why should we degrade the military by putting a load of chavs in there. What about people, like myself, who have chosen the military as a good career. Why should we have to have to put up with these people in our place of work. How about national service but in offices, I dont think current office staff would like that would they.

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Why should we degrade the military by putting a load of chavs in there. What about people, like myself, who have chosen the military as a good career. Why should we have to have to put up with these people in our place of work. How about national service but in offices, I dont think current office staff would like that would they.

You mean you couldn't control chavs??? You could use them for live training no one would miss least of all their parents.

Anyway more seriously this means political adventures like Iraq and Afghanistan will be a thing of the past. We're no longer a world power and it's time too realise that.

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You mean you couldn't control chavs??? You could use them for live training no one would miss least of all their parents.

Anyway more seriously this means political adventures like Iraq and Afghanistan will be a thing of the past. We're no longer a world power and it's time too realise that.

I agree Pit. If we stopped getting involved in foreign wars at the behest of the US, we would be able to defend oureslves perfectly well. I mean absolutely no offence to our servicemen & women serving overseas at the moment by the way, I'd just prefer they weren't there.

And don't start me on trident. Why on earth do we need to spend billions on a nuclear deterrent, that we would have no need to use? Waste of time & money.

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A welcome change, given what the country usually does.

Now for bringing the troops home....

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I'm more surprised that Wembley Stadium has reached that kind of capacity! Do we really need/ can we afford a huge military, especially when we are savagely cutting education budgets,pensions, child benefit, benefits for the disabled (I mean for the love of god how can they sleep at night after doing that?), removing people from council homes they've lived in all their lives while not investing in any new social housing and axing over a million jobs? Are those not perhaps bigger issues than whether we have enough soldiers to fit in a large football stadium?

I couldn't have put it better myself, LS... :drinks:

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Would you take a risk on not insuring your house and contents because you haven't had a fire or burglary for 65 years?

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Would you take a risk on not insuring your house and contents because you haven't had a fire or burglary for 65 years?

I'm not suggesting we abolish the military, just that defence is hardly a priority. I mean yes get reasonable 'insurance' in the form of the conventional military and 'update' the policy (by which I mean fund it adequately!) but we don't have the resources or the need to have huge arsenals of weapons, thousands of multi-million pound aircraft, a largeish military AND Trident. Also, the threat we face isn't large scale in nature but small scale, because that is the only effective way those wishing to attack peaceful, well informed and comparatively reasonable nation societies like our own.

What exactly do we need to defend ourselves from?

The french?

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What exactly do we need to defend ourselves from?

Exactly. Anybody who could invade us doesn't want to and anyone who wanted to invade us couldn't. I would still be in favour of scrapping the big ticket items the army seem to like and not starting daft unwinnable wars in favour of more troops and infantry hardware.

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There's no chance in hell we're gonna get invaded, we're the laughing stoke of the World. I guess in the future there's a chance of China and North Korea starting something with us and neighbouring countries just to gain land for their population and industrial means. I guess Islam is creeping in as a subtle invasion but that's just natural as the religion is fast growing.

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There's no chance in hell we're gonna get invaded, we're the laughing stoke of the World. I guess in the future there's a chance of China and North Korea starting something with us and neighbouring countries just to gain land for their population and industrial means. I guess Islam is creeping in as a subtle invasion but that's just natural as the religion is fast growing.

Why would the Chinese want to invade us when they can just keep doing what they are doing and push for more and more influence in Africa?

As for Islam being a subtle invasion, I know this is an issue for some people in some parts of Europe but it is a complete non-issue in Scotland. We actually need far more religious, ethnic and cultural diversity up here. 96.5% of the population is white British or Irish in origin, 1.5% is white other and 2% is non-white. Of the whole population about 0.8% are Muslim.

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Muslims can be white British too...and trust me you don't need any religion up there! No part of the World needs it.

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What exactly do we need to defend ourselves from?

World War III resulting from an oil crisis after a number of decades of laissez-faire "free market capitalism is the solution to everything, the markets will get us out of the non-sustainable energy use problem" policies and dwindling oil supplies resulting in wars over the distribution of the remaining oil.

But if that happens it will probably be decades away and we could bolster our army much nearer the time, and thus it isn't really an argument for having a large amount of defence right now.

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World War III resulting from an oil crisis after a number of decades of laissez-faire "free market capitalism is the solution to everything, the markets will get us out of the non-sustainable energy use problem" policies and dwindling oil supplies resulting in wars over the distribution of the remaining oil.

But if that happens it will probably be decades away and we could bolster our army much nearer the time, and thus it isn't really an argument for having a large amount of defence right now.

Same could be said prior to WW2, had Britain beefed up our armed forces it might well have put Hitler off or at the very least made it easier to defeat him with out a major war in the process.

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World War III resulting from an oil crisis after a number of decades of laissez-faire "free market capitalism is the solution to everything, the markets will get us out of the non-sustainable energy use problem" policies and dwindling oil supplies resulting in wars over the distribution of the remaining oil.

But if that happens it will probably be decades away and we could bolster our army much nearer the time, and thus it isn't really an argument for having a large amount of defence right now.

Everybody should watch this video.

http://www.youtube.c...h?v=IHmeOGD7Ah8

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If we cut the obsene waste of the MOD desk jockies surely we could maintain the forces at current levels and save money?

The way the MoD procures weapons systems, and manages itself wastes billions! They might as well order in truck loads of cash and set fire to it!Future Rapid Effects system...p up in a brewery comes to mind and costing £16bn. Chinook fiasco £400m, Abandoned inventory IT project £118m, tanker aircraft, nimrod upgrades etc etc.

Then we'll add in the top brass ...too many chiefs and too few poorly paid indians... then perhaps we could pay the indians better. Why, for example, are there 40 odd admirals in the navy? There are only 40 or so ships!!

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Why would the Chinese want to invade us when they can just keep doing what they are doing and push for more and more influence in Africa?

That quote sounds worryingly like a description of Eastasia in '1984'. And yes, they control the world already through their huge export market and labour force. Sending the troops in would be frankly pointless - why annoy and kill consumers of Chinese goods?

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We spend more on our armed forces per capita than any other European country other than France, and the only reason we spend less than them is their political decision to be self-sufficient in weaponry from assault rifles to nuclear missiles. I you want large, modern, cutting edge armed forces, you have to pay through the nose for it, and frankly we can't afford it - so you either end up cutting out procurement priorities by making your armed forces smaller and less capable, or you decide to re-structure. Personally I'd kick Trident replacement into touch. If we're so in love with nuclear weapons, there are much cheaper options.

Some pretty hard decisions need to be made, and it will hurt.

Bring back National Service and we can cheaply increase the size of the Armed Forces whilst getting a shed load of layabouts off 'benefits'.

You won't find a single senior military figure or politician who supports this - all recent evidence shows that small professional armed forces are better and more effective than large conscription armies which are pretty decent at building bridges, or harvesting crops, but very definately not who you'd want defending you from anything serious.

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We spend more on our armed forces per capita than any other European country other than France, and the only reason we spend less than them is their political decision to be self-sufficient in weaponry from assault rifles to nuclear missiles. I you want large, modern, cutting edge armed forces, you have to pay through the nose for it, and frankly we can't afford it - so you either end up cutting out procurement priorities by making your armed forces smaller and less capable, or you decide to re-structure. Personally I'd kick Trident replacement into touch. If we're so in love with nuclear weapons, there are much cheaper options.

Some pretty hard decisions need to be made, and it will hurt.

You won't find a single senior military figure or politician who supports this - all recent evidence shows that small professional armed forces are better and more effective than large conscription armies which are pretty decent at building bridges, or harvesting crops, but very definately not who you'd want defending you from anything serious.

Pity the riff raff helped to win the last major war.

At the end of the day we've ceased being a world power and can no longer afford to live as America's little brother. As soon as we realise it the better.

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Pity the riff raff helped to win the last major war.

At the end of the day we've ceased being a world power and can no longer afford to live as America's little brother. As soon as we realise it the better.

Why the obsession with being a world power?? The empire is long gone, big deal.

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Not so much about defence cuts, I don't know if anyone on here watched 'Dispatches' on Channel 4 tonight but more like the billions... Yes BILLIONS! squandered by the MOD must certainly leave a bitter taste in the mouth for those injured or for the family members of those killed on the frontline.

Catch up if you missed it on www.channel4.com/4od

Phil.

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