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Kiwi

Aid Workers Provoke Israeli Commandos?!

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http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/10196420.stm

The Israeli line seems to be that the commandos were provoked into killing the aid workers/activists. According to the Israeli deputy PM the flotilla was "a violent attempt to provoke Israel".

Provocation? or a massacre?

http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/abbas-israel-has-committed-a-massacre-on-the-gaza-flotilla-1.293186

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There is so much hate between these two countries that you have to wonder what is going to happen next. How can a flotilla of aid (assuming that was all it was) be provocative?

I have to question what Israel thinks it achieves with these kind of headlines. It is a sad situation with no end in sight. The people of both countries have been very badly let down by their leaders.

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Total double standards here - firstly, when Israel acquires nuclear weapons, the west just pretends they don't exist. When Iran gets them, we impose sanctions and discuss at great length the threat to our great ally Israel.

If it were any other country who blockades an entire country, persecutes the residents, bombs them and then massacres people trying to get food and supplies to the persecuted country, we would probably have at least threatened military action, not to mention economic sanctions. But, as always, we'll just let them get away with nonsense like this until the Palestinian people are dying of starvation like the Israeli government clearly wants them to.

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Normally I don't get too involved in these kind of discussions but this episode, however much Israel uses the threat of arms smuggling as a reason/excuse, this really does go beyond acceptable behavour in my view.

I was, once, very pro Israel, no doubt being very young when we learnt of what happened to the Jews under Hitler, staying in Israel both on holiday and a brief working spell in 1960, but over time I'm afraid I side more with the Arabs. I still have no time for their acts of terrorism, hijacking etc, but just as much as the Jews deserve to live in their own land in peace so do the Palestinian Arabs. I'll leave aside of where that should have been as it is in itself a complete can of worms! Nothing will happen of course until the USA can be persuaded that the east coast Jewish vote has to be ignored in their elections and some parity given to the Arab-Israeli differences.

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There are 3 Irish people unaccounted for out there at the moment.

Links to videos here http://www.rte.ie/news/2010/0531/mideast.html

The flotilla was attacked in international waters, so illegally whatever they claim.

2 British people and 7 Irish people unaccounted for now. Not to say harm has come to them just they have not made or been contacted yet. A remarkable PR disaster for Isreal. However the attack was not illegal because Isreal has a right to defend it's territory from those known to be entering it in International waters like every other nation. Only if they don't know if the ships will enter their territory is it illegal.

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But they weren't attacking Israel in any way, shape or form.

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This was a humanitarian peace mission. It was not a military gung-ho mission. We do NOT yet know if the Israeli soldiers fired upon the vessel first. We do know (via a Turkish TV report) that some activists used physical violence for no purpose whatsoever. They therefore endangered the lives of others needlessly. It was stupid and insane behaviour by the minority activists who basically made the Israeli's assume that they would be met by a big threat.

I would have done the sensible thing. Got on the ground, and not provoked the IDF.

Regardless. Israel provoked and attempted to hijack a foreign vessel in INTERNATIONAL WATERS via the use of potential force. Hence Israel violated international law.

However the attack was not illegal because Isreal has a right to defend it's territory from those known to be entering it in International waters like every other nation. Only if they don't know if the ships will enter their territory is it illegal.

"I can tell you categorically, as a former Head of the FCO Maritime Section, that a Turkish flagged ship on the high seas is Turkish territory. This Israeli attack was undeniably illegal."

http://www.craigmurray.org.uk/

Further: -

UPDATE As I predicted, the BBC 8am news reported that the Israeli commandos opened fire after they were attacked with "knives, axes and firearms". There was absolutely no scepticism expressed at this Israeli claim, and no attempt to seek a reply from any representative of the aid convoy. The BBC has not mentioned - or interviewed anybody who might mention - the indisputable fact that it was illegal under the UN Convention on the Law of the Sea and in customary international law for the Israelis to board the ships in international waters.

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As ever not everything is quite black and white. Knowing the beebs anti Israel stance (Anyone remember the Army shelling the beech? Turned it was the PLO who got the aim wrong) I tend too look elsewhere.

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3896796,00.html

So like a cock up and misjudgement and they fell into trap that the activists wanted and now got very bad press.

And after all that the aid is going to be transferred to Gaza.

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As ever not everything is quite black and white. Knowing the beebs anti Israel stance (Anyone remember the Army shelling the beech? Turned it was the PLO who got the aim wrong) I tend too look elsewhere.

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3896796,00.html

So like a cock up and misjudgement and they fell into trap that the activists wanted and now got very bad press.

And after all that the aid is going to be transferred to Gaza.

That's a pro-Israeli source though. They could be taking liberties with the truth. Then again, that goes with most sources albeit the Turkish TV news source did show violence being perpetrated by some of the activists. There were a lot of decent people on that flotilla, but the few bad apples that were on there reacted stupidly and endangered the lives of everybody else.

Regardless of what happened on that ship; what Israel did was illegal and it tragically ended up in the needless deaths of innocents.

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The elitists in Saudi Arabia and the USA are quite happy that Israel acted the way it did and that a minority of people on that boat reacted violently. Mission accomplished. More funding for reactionary Islamist terror groups and American-Israeli illegal wars.

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The names of the dead are not yet known. The flotilla passengers included retired US diplomats Amb. Edward Peck and Col. Ann Wright as well as humanitarian aid and human rights workers, several Members of Parliament from Ireland, Germany, Sweden, Turkey, Malaysia, and Palestinian Members of the Knesset.

http://www.disappear...t-on-board.html

PR disaster for Israel: -

http://www.news24.com/World/News/Allies-turn-on-Israel-20100531

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Israel deserve eveything they get coming their way. Sick of the sight of that country flouting international law over and over.

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Israel deserve eveything they get coming their way. Sick of the sight of that country flouting international law over and over.

You need too look into things a little deeper all is not black and white.

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You need too look into things a little deeper all is not black and white.

The international law aspect is very clear indeed. Israel violated it.

That doesn't mean I excuse the behaviour of some of those aid workers, because it was just stupid and reckless.

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The international law aspect is very clear indeed. Israel violated it.

That doesn't mean I excuse the behaviour of some of those aid workers, because it was just stupid and reckless.

Everybody violates international law just when Israel does it everyone jumps up and down a lot more.

I doubt very much those were aid workers as well. Rather it's a put up job and Israel fell for it. Talking of aid didn't our beloved respect leader get stuck in a Arab country when trying to take aid to Gaza. Nobody made a fuss about that.

If people stopped sticking weapons in with the aid there wouldn't be a problem would there.

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Everybody violates international law just when Israel does it everyone jumps up and down a lot more.

I doubt very much those were aid workers as well. Rather it's a put up job and Israel fell for it. Talking of aid didn't our beloved respect leader get stuck in a Arab country when trying to take aid to Gaza. Nobody made a fuss about that.

If people stopped sticking weapons in with the aid there wouldn't be a problem would there.

They were mostly aid workers at least, several of them were from Cork with a 1 Irish boat involved. Nobel Peace Prize winner Mairead Corrigan Maguire, former UN Assistant Secretary-General Denis Halliday, nurses, doctors and some other minor European politicians were aboard the boats.

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Everybody violates international law just when Israel does it everyone jumps up and down a lot more.

I doubt very much those were aid workers as well. Rather it's a put up job and Israel fell for it. Talking of aid didn't our beloved respect leader get stuck in a Arab country when trying to take aid to Gaza. Nobody made a fuss about that.

If people stopped sticking weapons in with the aid there wouldn't be a problem would there.

Maybe some truth to it. But laws are laws aren't they?

Innocents got killed because Israel chose to board that boat illegally. There is zero evidence that there were guns onboard (although there is evidence that baseball bats, metal bars, etc were used).

You just dont go against soldiers unless you have guns. The soldiers were there illegally, but your first duty is to stay alive and ensure you do nothing to endanger the lives of others. They should of cooperated with the IDF fully whilst stating that they were doing so under duress in international waters contrary to international law. Camera men should of been busy trying to capture the faces of the soldiers on tape for possible legal proceedings.

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Maybe some truth to it. But laws are laws aren't they?

Should we stop Iran getting a nuclear weapon, with force if necessary? Laws are laws.

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Should we stop Iran getting a nuclear weapon, with force if necessary? Laws are laws.

There is no evidence that Iran intends to get nuclear weapons. As much as I hate the Iranian regime, I think some facts are in order: -

http://www.afterdown....org/node/50276

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_TLGAsCm2ek

Again, there is a double-standard here because Israel has long been in violation of several international laws and it has nuclear weapons. Our countries sell arms and do deals with tyrannical places and terrorism-sponsorers like Saudi Arabia, Libya, etc. We sent people to be tortured in Uzbekistan and used information acquired from torture. We are subsidising drug lords in Afghanistan after invading that country (and Iraq) illegally.

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I have come to the conclusion that Israel does not want peace.

Peace for Israel means no more building in illegal occupied areas, handing back The Golan to Syria, West Bank to Jordan etc...

They constently provoke responses by this kind of action to justify my points above.

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Israel IDF boarded a Turkish vessel in international waters. This is a violation of international law. It's a crime. Israel then say a few people attacked the IDF with metal bars and threw things. While this may be true, it is quite clear that Israel responded with cold-blooded murder of innocents. Israel could've done the right thing and left the boat without killing anybody.

A word on the legal position, which is very plain. To attack a foreign flagged vessel in international waters is illegal. It is not piracy, as the Israeli vessels carried a military commission. It is rather an act of illegal warfare.

Because the incident took place on the high seas does not mean however that international law is the only applicable law. The Law of the Sea is quite plain that, when an incident takes place on a ship on the high seas (outside anybody's territorial waters) the applicable law is that of the flag state of the ship on which the incident occurred. In legal terms, the Turkish ship was Turkish territory.

http://www.craigmurray.org.uk/

Technically then, an act of war against Turkey by Israel. This is really bad.

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None of you live in Israel.

This is the poison they are fighting against.

157opas.png

The flotilla knew what they were sailing into. They were attempting an illegal act, to break the embargo on Gaza. They asked for confrontation, and it seems they started it.

It's easy to blame Israel.

Sure, the Israeli response could have been different. If I was in charge I'd have sunk the flotilla with explosive charges without boarding and, because I'm nice, would have provided the occupants with life-rafts.

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