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Posted
  • Location: Sheffield South Yorkshire 160M Powering the Sheffield Shield
  • Weather Preferences: Any Extreme
  • Location: Sheffield South Yorkshire 160M Powering the Sheffield Shield

    Markets booming madly on the news lets hope the EU deal doesn't unrival in the next few weeks. If it does expect a huge crash again. Interesting EU is approaching china for help so perhaps China will take over Europe without a need for a tank.

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    As harve has touched on, re inflation and interest rates, its a hell of complicated set up to understand correctly (nobody does imho), the news always presents it very clean, simplistically and wrong.

    Go Greek strikes Go.... It's not often I support strikes, but in this I do. They are absolutely right that Greece does not need more lending. It can't afford what it owes full stop, they still need t

    Afraid not, old bean; China has been a Communist People's Republic since, when, 1947? Just because it's a Tory government that's doing all the kow-towing makes not a jot of difference...But I bet that

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    Posted
  • Location: Rochester, Kent
  • Location: Rochester, Kent

    Thus speaks the voice of experience I gather, or as they say in the USA, been there, done that, got the tee-shirt. I do not dispute the legal requirements upon executives, but otherwise that really is disingenious Sparticle, and reads like some bean-counter's waffle. If I were the MD of a company, and you worked for me in a position of responsibility, I would hoof you out at the first possible opportunity for that sentiment, or perhaps put you where you could do me no harm. If you want a friend, buy a dog. By and large, executives are there to make profit for the shareholders, and preferably lots of it.

    I have personally held executive positions in the shipbuilding industry, and I can tell you for nothing that Directors and managers must make profit forecasts, and I mean profit, not just treading water. It is part and parcel of what is called Strategic Planning. The Board want to know where the company will be in 5 years hence, and how it will get there. The whole point of the exercise is for the Board to estimate how much cash the company might generate in the next few years. A person who does not feel able to make a profit will probably never get an executive position in the first place - unless of course his task is to close the company down - and those who fail to meet their own profit forecasts are hoofed out quickly and without ceremony.

    If this isn't enough, people are hoofed out despite making a very decent profit. I was hoofed out in the USA for handing the Chairman USD 14.5 million pre-tax profit on a turnover of USD 55 million. Not good enough apparently, he wanted still more, and could see I was burned out. There are even worse cases, such as Lee Icocca, who Henry Ford II hoofed out just after Iacocca delivered the first 1 billion profit in Ford's history.

    I can just imagine someone applying for an executive's position, and over lunch telling the Board that he feels able to help the company break even over five years. Ha! "Don't call us, we'll call you".

    Thanks for that :)

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    Posted
  • Location: Whitkirk, Leeds 86m asl
  • Weather Preferences: Anything but mild south-westeries in winter
  • Location: Whitkirk, Leeds 86m asl

    Markets booming madly on the news lets hope the EU deal doesn't unrival in the next few weeks. If it does expect a huge crash again. Interesting EU is approaching china for help so perhaps China will take over Europe without a need for a tank.

    Sure, we can join the US in becoming a Chinese colony for government debt. Won't be long until China's false economy crashes.. sooner or later. Edited by Aaron
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    Posted
  • Location: Sth Staffs/Shrops 105m/345' & NW Snowdonia 219m/719'
  • Location: Sth Staffs/Shrops 105m/345' & NW Snowdonia 219m/719'

    Already some signs of evaporation of the optimism of the “latest solution” to the Eurozone crisis.

    LONDON | Fri Oct 28, 2011 11:33am BST

    LONDON Oct 28 (Reuters) - European shares turned negative on Friday morning, giving up a little of the strong gains of the previous session, and with Italian stocks lower after a bond auction.

    At 1031 GMT, the FTSEurofirst 300 index of top European shares was down 0.2 percent at 1,017.70 points, after earlier being as high as 1,028.48.

    The Italian benchmark was down 2 percent after demand at a bond auction was weak.

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    Posted
  • Location: Leeds/Bradford border, 185 metres above sea level, around 600 feet
  • Location: Leeds/Bradford border, 185 metres above sea level, around 600 feet

    Sure, we can join the US in becoming a Chinese colony for government debt. Won't be long until China's false economy crashes.. sooner or later.

    While China taking on all the debt is risky, both the US and Europe do as a whole do not have public debt exceeding 100% GDP, thus it is unlikely to damage China anytime soon (more worried about their asset bubble).

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    Posted
  • Location: Near Lauder, SE Scotland, 175 m asl
  • Location: Near Lauder, SE Scotland, 175 m asl

    While China taking on all the debt is risky, both the US and Europe do as a whole do not have public debt exceeding 100% GDP, thus it is unlikely to damage China anytime soon (more worried about their asset bubble).

    Michael Moore recently released treasury figures for Scottish national debt. According to him, each Scot owes £7,884; less than the price of a year at Oxbridge. Where can I pay? Is a cheque ok?

    This was nice, as after going through all the figures of tax revenues in detail over the last 30 years, he cut 19 billion off what Scotland would owe on a simple proportional share. I'm starting to like him. Posted Image

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    Posted
  • Location: Sheffield South Yorkshire 160M Powering the Sheffield Shield
  • Weather Preferences: Any Extreme
  • Location: Sheffield South Yorkshire 160M Powering the Sheffield Shield

    Get yer debts paid off you tight scots. :)

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    Posted
  • Location: Tunbridge Wells, Kent
  • Location: Tunbridge Wells, Kent

    as expected, the can has been kicked down the road a little further

    sooner or later the road is going to lead to a brick wall

    the political elite are now too entwined with the banking fraternity for any other outcome

    RIP democracy

    Edited by Stu_London
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    Posted
  • Location: Taasinge, Denmark
  • Location: Taasinge, Denmark

    Sarkozy to the Chinese

    "S'il vous plaît monsieur, pouvoir j'ai encore de?"

    Posted Image

    Merci can mean yes or no depending on the associated body language and tone of voice.
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    Posted
  • Location: Sheffield South Yorkshire 160M Powering the Sheffield Shield
  • Weather Preferences: Any Extreme
  • Location: Sheffield South Yorkshire 160M Powering the Sheffield Shield

    Greeks are going to have a referendum on the bailout. Only one result there. Up yours Europe. Time for plan B version 3

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    Posted
  • Location: Taasinge, Denmark
  • Location: Taasinge, Denmark

    Greeks are going to have a referendum on the bailout. Only one result there. Up yours Europe. Time for plan B version 3

    I wonder if Pasok's intention to put the latest Eurozone rescue plans to a referendum was discussed with Merkel and Sarkozy?

    What Papandreou in fact has pulled off is this; you have shown willing to cancel half our debt, and I am sure you are willing to cancel even more of it, say, all of it! As things stand, the Greeks have little to lose. No matter what course they take, they face years of comparitive hardship because of the proposed austerity, so why not have the hardship without paying back any of their debts? This is realpolitik.

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    Posted
  • Location: Dorset
  • Location: Dorset

    Plan B version 3 is hide under the bed I think.....If greece leaves under this developing scenario the CDS's are triggered 100% default, panic on the markets, liquidity freezes for France and pretty much the end of the Euro.

    I can't say I blame Greece though all of their bailouts have been about saving France and Germany and have not been in the best interest of Greece, why oh why didn't the Franco-Germans, 18 months ago when it was obvious that Greece needed to default, just agree to a 70% writedown on debt with 40% bourn and paid for by the ECB and the 30% a hit on the holding banks.

    Greece would be growing again by now and the cost would have been less than the cost of saving Dexia bank alone.

    The greeks will get the blame but the failure to find the right solution lies with Germany.

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    Posted
  • Location: Carryduff, County Down 420ft ASL
  • Location: Carryduff, County Down 420ft ASL

    The Greeks to offer a vote on the next bailout = the beginning of the end for the Euro.

    If the Greeks default you can bet the likes of Italy and Spain won't be far behind.

    This is major stuff.

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    Posted
  • Location: Leeds/Bradford border, 185 metres above sea level, around 600 feet
  • Location: Leeds/Bradford border, 185 metres above sea level, around 600 feet

    It's official then, if Greece holds a referendum then they will almost certainly be kicked out of the Euro (and i can't say that i would blame France or Germany for telling them where to go).

    In regards to the effects, France and Germany can cope with the losses of a full Greek default (about 2% GDP) and Spain actually holds little Greek debt. If they can plough money into Portugal and Ireland to keep them afloat when the recession hits then the Euro will be okay so long as Italy can survive the blow.

    The Greeks to offer a vote on the next bailout = the beginning of the end for the Euro.

    If the Greeks default you can bet the likes of Italy and Spain won't be far behind.

    This is major stuff.

    First off, Spain does not need any debt wiping off as its national debt is still around 60% as opposed to the Greek 140%. It is Spain's fiscal deficit that is the problem and they are getting rid just as quickly as the UK. The threat to Spain comes either from doing nothing or Portugal/Italy/France or Germany going under.

    Italy and Portugal are the problems here. Italy is probably mature enough to know that it could never get away with demanding it's debt be written off however Portugal has already resisted austerity before.

    I'm afraid that some of you let your Euro-sceptisicm shine through, as long as France and Germany support the Euro, it will survive even if they actually take a hard line and kick countries out. I cannot see the Euro failing before the elections next year.

    In summary, Greece to be kicked out, Portugal probably the same, Ireland to probably survive as part of the Euro but may need more money to cover losses from the other countries. Italy is the problem here.

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    Posted
  • Location: Dorset
  • Location: Dorset

    I think the problem is that German isn't prepared to protect the Euro, they have declined to increase their contributions to the rescue fund and have told the rest of Europe to go cap in hand to China to rescue it instead.

    France really can't afford to step up. Your right that Italy is the problem SB, at least IMO, the problems come though that combined with the other PIGS there is over 1tr of debt to refinance in the next 12 months and nobody really wants to buy it, if Greece does decide to default the insurance and yields required to get anybody to buy the refinancing will be between 8-10% which is totally unsustainable, added in that nobody expects any of the PIIGS to grow next year, high unemployment and social costs etc budgets will be squeezed further. You then have more austerity and the Greek cycle repeats just with a different country.

    Greece reminds me of the following story.

    " A middle man is in bar, he overhears a discussion with a number of rich bankers about how they are going to create a new club and that everybody will get rich in the club. The middle aged man (who's a goat herder) goes upto the group and asks if he can join. Yes they all shout the more the merrier.

    A few years down the line the man has seen his pay increase by 200%, he keeps getting offers of interest free credit for new cars and kitchens and takes out a new mortgage that his new pay can cope with.

    Suddenly the club starts to hit problems and make a small loss, the middle aged man is then told that because he doesn't add enough to the group he must see his pay cut by 70%. Now he can no longer afford the new mortgage or the kitchen, car etc. He finds he has to go back to his life style before he joined the club, why on earth would the man want to stay in the club ?

    I think an awful lot of people have acted like this man in this country, just like Greece has acted, Greece are not alone in living beyond their needs but trying to convince them that they can still afford the car, mortgage etc if only they reduce their food money is disgusting and Greece should default, they should have defaulted, they will require a lower standard of living but at least they break the cycle. It's about time Greece stood up for itself told France and Germany to bugger off and deal with their banking issues.

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    Posted
  • Location: Orleton, 6 miles south of Ludlow
  • Location: Orleton, 6 miles south of Ludlow

    FTSE (and all other leading share indices) heading south as a reaction to the Greek referendum — no surprises there.

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    Posted
  • Location: Taasinge, Denmark
  • Location: Taasinge, Denmark

    I think the problem is that German isn't prepared to protect the Euro

    May I twist that about and put if Germany isn't prepared to protect the Euro then it is a problem.

    We face an uncertain future due to peak oil, Mickey Mouse economies everywhere, growing world population and everyone wanting our affluence. It cannot be done.

    Since 1945, the Germans have funded a large part of the European project, and they did that because there existed a kind of German national guilt complex over nazism, and because they wanted to be viewed as normal Europeans like everyone else, not pariahs. That is now behind Germany, and many people are now daring to use expressions that a few years ago were taboo, such as spaghettifresser. There has always been a stigma in Germany about countries south of The Alps being somehow inadequate. If these ideas are to be refreshed in Germany, then together with the uncertain future it is a problem we need to nip in the bud.

    Edited by Alan Robinson
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    Posted
  • Location: Rochester, Kent
  • Location: Rochester, Kent

    Thus speaks the voice of experience I gather, or as they say in the USA, been there, done that, got the tee-shirt. I do not dispute the legal requirements upon executives, but otherwise that really is disingenious Sparticle, and reads like some bean-counter's waffle. If I were the MD of a company, and you worked for me in a position of responsibility, I would hoof you out at the first possible opportunity for that sentiment, or perhaps put you where you could do me no harm. If you want a friend, buy a dog. By and large, executives are there to make profit for the shareholders, and preferably lots of it.

    I have personally held executive positions in the shipbuilding industry, and I can tell you for nothing that Directors and managers must make profit forecasts, and I mean profit, not just treading water. It is part and parcel of what is called Strategic Planning. The Board want to know where the company will be in 5 years hence, and how it will get there. The whole point of the exercise is for the Board to estimate how much cash the company might generate in the next few years. A person who does not feel able to make a profit will probably never get an executive position in the first place - unless of course his task is to close the company down - and those who fail to meet their own profit forecasts are hoofed out quickly and without ceremony.

    If this isn't enough, people are hoofed out despite making a very decent profit. I was hoofed out in the USA for handing the Chairman USD 14.5 million pre-tax profit on a turnover of USD 55 million. Not good enough apparently, he wanted still more, and could see I was burned out. There are even worse cases, such as Lee Iacocca, who Henry Ford II hoofed out just after Iacocca delivered the first 1 billion profit in Ford's history.

    I can just imagine someone applying for an executive's position, and over lunch telling the Board that he feels able to help the company break even over five years. Ha! "Don't call us, we'll call you".

    Out of interest how does a purchasing director make a profit, and for that matter, a CIO, a human resources director etc etc etc? Just interested why you'd boot them out of the door because they are, effectively, sink jobs.

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    Posted
  • Location: Rochester, Kent
  • Location: Rochester, Kent

    Greece to hold referendum on rescue package! Greece to leave the Euro by christmas? And, hey, that's one helluva way to upset the Germans.

    Edited by Sparticle
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    Posted
  • Location: Taasinge, Denmark
  • Location: Taasinge, Denmark

    Out of interest how does a purchasing director make a profit, and for that matter, a CIO, a human resources director etc etc etc? Just interested why you'd boot them out of the door because they are, effectively, sink jobs.

    You have the better of me regarding a CIO, for I am not sure what one is.

    Regarding Human Resources, I am very much against having such departments. It is part and parcel of all management to keep closely informed about the working affairs of those for whom one is responsible. All managers should know sufficient employment law so they know their obligations as managers, and to make prudent decisions in people affairs. The people for whom I was responsible should approach me with any work related problem they have, and it is my managerial duty to resolve the matter as well as I can. If I have a problem I go to my boss, not some office assistant. It is also my responsibility as a manager to help people progress by attending to job rotation and further training. The pay clerk can attend to matters of sick pay, and if I happen to have so many people working with me that keeping a tally of their holidays becomes a problem for me, then I'd let an office assistant do it for me. If the business is so big we need several office assistants to keep tally of holidays, then okay, let's have several assistants...............but whatever we do, keep them well apart, otherwise they'll form a Human Resources department.

    One of the worst aspects of human resources departments is recruitment. They compile application forms - the devil's invention - and good applicants are turned off by the company before they even are offered a job. Recruitment must be carried out by the manager who needs helpers. Why on earth a Human Resources manager should ever be appointed to the Board of Directors is quite beyond my comprehension.

    Human resources rant over.

    PURCHASING MANAGER

    Certainly in my line of business - shipbuilding - this character is one of the biggest profit makers in the company. In the more developed countries, the cost of building an average cargo vessel is approximately split 50% in wages, and 50% for purchased materials, machinery, equipment and specialist sub-contractor services. Whenever I ran the show, I stipulated that engineers designing the vessel should on no account discuss commercial matters with potential suppliers, and the design complete, they compile a technical specification of the materials or equipment required. It then becomes the Purchasing Manager's task - with his trusted assistants - to locate suppliers and agree terms for the delivery of whatever the engineers have specified. Suppliers are asked to attend a meeting with the Purchasing Manager and the Engineer in question to thrash out final details, and an order is placed. A good Purchasing Manager will make sure suppliers know their competitors are being considered.

    The Purchasing Manager is a person I always kept under very close scrutiny, so that he wasn't tempted to accept favours, gifts, or other inducement in return for being lax when selecting suppliers. When you consider for example that our Purchasing Manager spent on the company's behalf in excess of GBP 50 million concerning 4 warships for the Danish Navy, I think you get my drift.

    By the way........sorry you felt the need to brood on this.

    Edited by Alan Robinson
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    Posted
  • Location: Rochester, Kent
  • Location: Rochester, Kent

    A CIO is effectively a board level IT manager responsible for the legal implications of data and data processing: thank the Americans for this one particularly the Sorbanes-Oxley stuff.

    Agree re: human resources, however, my view is that purchasing and sales are opposite sides of the balance sheet. Perhaps, my limited accounting skills has got me into trouble yet again. ie buying stuff means spending money, and selling stuff means generating income the difference being profit ???

    You can't hoof someone out of the door whose job it is to spend money because they don't (and cannot) produce a P&L. I work in IT in a relatively senior position: I am telling you now - there is no way in heaven or earth I can generate a profit: my job - my fiduciary duty - is to ensure that the spend is a little as possible to support the company. I do not produce P&L; I produce an estimated spend so that the FD can keep his cashflow forecasts current, relevant, and, most of all, accurate.

    Edited by Sparticle
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