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Posted
  • Location: Sth Staffs/Shrops 105m/345' & NW Snowdonia 219m/719'
  • Location: Sth Staffs/Shrops 105m/345' & NW Snowdonia 219m/719'

    Banks should be allowed to loan money (created debt-free by the government) within certain regulated limits, but not CREATE new money out of thin air as debt (digits on a computer screen) within an overly complex and unregulated fractional reserve system.

    I totally agree with that and that documentary does discuss that issue that they have just got too big and complicated and risk based.

    Pete I do hate them too... honest!... but they make making things and building things, like hospitals, possible by lending money ..... and then they do all the casino bulldung stuff as well. They need to go back to basics.... lending money to companies and individuals wisely not recklessly.

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    As harve has touched on, re inflation and interest rates, its a hell of complicated set up to understand correctly (nobody does imho), the news always presents it very clean, simplistically and wrong.

    Go Greek strikes Go.... It's not often I support strikes, but in this I do. They are absolutely right that Greece does not need more lending. It can't afford what it owes full stop, they still need t

    Afraid not, old bean; China has been a Communist People's Republic since, when, 1947? Just because it's a Tory government that's doing all the kow-towing makes not a jot of difference...But I bet that

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    Posted
  • Location: 4 miles north of Durham City
  • Location: 4 miles north of Durham City

    While people starve in places like Somalia....

    Jayati Ghosh: Speculation, concentration of ownership and hoarding creates food price bubbles, with more to come

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    Posted
  • Location: ANYWHERE BUT HERE
  • Weather Preferences: ALL WEATHER, NOT THE PETTY POLITICS OF MODS IN THIS SITE
  • Location: ANYWHERE BUT HERE

    Yes, of course I understand the free market economy; I work in it (oil, gas and energy). I also have no problem with people investing in companies in the hope they grow. However, I have concerns over those that make money by means such as betting that a company fails etc, then trying to induce a run on said company in the hope that is exactly what happens. These people make no meaningful contribution to society, even causing financial problems globally, yet are rewarded massively for it in terms of money.

    That is all I was eluding too....:good:

    Money can make money, but only if it is used to create something of value. If it does not, it is merely moving it from from one place to another, creating nothing. Kinda like what happended recently, but in this case the money was largely fictional....

    That is an imaginary world that you are portraying.......if you think that that is the way a free market works then go and try it....try selling stocks over and over again for no reason other than to push it down.

    I will predict you will come up against buyers who will simply hoover up your cheap stock and you will end up loosing money. Give me an example of where traders have sold short simply to smash up an industry for financial gain and everyone else in the global markets has stood idly by and watched it happen ?

    They can burn in hell for all I care. They create nothing. They produce nothing. They are parasites, money-lenders and usurers who create credit out of thin air, and then demand interest on top. That's it - that's all they "produce" = GIVE ME MORE INTEREST...DEBT DEBT DEBT.

    We can create money debt-free and localize and democratize the process without the focus on debt and profit.

    They have got to go. They WILL create another crisis if we let them retain their power to create money - and that power has gotten particularly dangerous as money became more virtual and computerized and inflicted with ever greater complex and deceptive derivatives.

    Of course you dont benefit from all the revenue raised in financial services one little bit do you. You must be the only person in this country who has no benefits whatsoever.

    Its a free country and if one doesnt like it one can always emigrate!

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    Posted
  • Location: 4 miles north of Durham City
  • Location: 4 miles north of Durham City

    Greece is tightening its belt -- and the number of people living in poverty is surging as a result. Thousands line up in front of food banks and resort to rifling through rubbish bins. The country's financial crisis is rapidly turning into a social one -- while wealthy tax evaders manage to get off scot-free.

    This time, the fight for survival last exactly 29 minutes. At precisely 3 p.m., Father Andreas, a 37-year-old Greek Orthodox priest, opens the doors of the food bank in downtown Athens. At this hour, the line of hungry people stretches all the way across the large square outside and into the street. Needy people of all ages are waiting patiently -- pensioners, unemployed people, mothers with children, immigrants, asylum seekers. "We can't let these people starve," the priest says. "They are already suffering so much. They should at least not go without food."

    It is a charitable deed. But in just under half an hour, all of the kitchen's 1,200 servings have been taken, causing several dozen people to leave with empty hands and growling stomachs. They can only hope to be among the lucky ones next time. Katarina was one of the lucky ones. The 44-year-old got her hands on eight servings of a salad made of carrots, potatoes and peas, several yoghurts and a bag of bread -- the only food her family will have today. Katarina is ashamed and prefers not to give her full name. She and her 7-year-old daughter have to take a bus in from a suburb and travel all the way across the sprawling city just to get a warm meal.

    Katarina was laid off from her job at a biscuit factory roughly a year ago. Since then, she's been forced to rely on the handouts paid for by what Father Andreas calls "holy money." Katarina says there are no more jobs to be had. "No one will even pay you to stuff mailboxes with advertisements anymore," she says. "Greece is finished."

    Article continues here:-

    http://www.spiegel.d...,775301,00.html

    Edited by PersianPaladin
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    Posted
  • Location: Sheffield South Yorkshire 160M Powering the Sheffield Shield
  • Weather Preferences: Any Extreme
  • Location: Sheffield South Yorkshire 160M Powering the Sheffield Shield

    Sticking plasters out for Greece in the vain hope that it safe the eurozone. Give it a few months and we'll back to square one except with an even bigger debt problem.

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    Posted
  • Location: Chevening Kent
  • Location: Chevening Kent

    Sticking plasters out for Greece in the vain hope that it safe the eurozone. Give it a few months and we'll back to square one except with an even bigger debt problem.

    I understand that a number of Eurozone countries are producing their old currencies including Ireland.

    The fat lady is clearing her throat, it seems !

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    Posted
  • Location: Near Lauder, SE Scotland, 175 m asl
  • Location: Near Lauder, SE Scotland, 175 m asl

    That is an imaginary world that you are portraying.......

    To be honest, I'm not an expert. So, can someone tell me why 'short selling' was banned during the early days of the banking crisis? I understood it was related to this...

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naked_short_selling

    "Abusive naked short selling has been illegal in the United States since 2008, as well as some other jurisdictions, as a method of driving down share prices"

    So I guess I am correct in that traders can and do try to make money out of bringing down companies?

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    Posted
  • Location: Dorset
  • Location: Dorset

    The EU still obviously doesn't get it going from the latest announcements by Mr Sarkozy......

    What total idiots sorry not time to write more about the announcement in depth but it's the usual european fudge and compromise that won't achieve very much.

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    Posted
  • Location: Stoke Gifford, Bristol
  • Location: Stoke Gifford, Bristol

    The EU still obviously doesn't get it going from the latest announcements by Mr Sarkozy......

    What total idiots sorry not time to write more about the announcement in depth but it's the usual european fudge and compromise that won't achieve very much.

    The whole Euro project has been a fudge from the very start. N European eurocrats embarking on a political mission to satisfy their ever fattening pompous egos!

    And to 'bribe' the S European nations & Ireland, handing out huge fat subsidies to 'improve' their infrastuctures like the roads and airports.

    in the meantime they promoted this Euro superstate on the world stage - it was never going to be a successful financial union - the economies of Euroland have never had fiscal commonality - doomed from the start.

    Now, these economies are constrained by the Euro straightjacket - no devaluation possible because they no longer have a sovereign currency.

    This is the biggest crisis facing the Western world - it's implications will be felt for many years to come - the crisis of 2 to 3 years ago will seem like a kiddie's tea party once the cyclonic 'financial crisis 2' winds blow in!

    Batten down the hatches - the Euro politicians have sold the people down the proverbial river! The dominos are starting to fall.

    And to think the UK media are still prattling on about some news paper scandal involving the Left's and Neo-Liberals pet hate - the Murdochs - small beer compared to this mega financial storm!

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    Posted
  • Location: 4 miles north of Durham City
  • Location: 4 miles north of Durham City

    To use a simple analogy: if someone pours gasoline all over your house and then goes and gets a blowtorch, you can pretty easily guess what’s going to happen next. This is essentially what is happening to us right now. When trillions of dollars are looted from the world economy, and the people who did the looting are not held accountable and are allowed to remain in positions of power, only a fool would think that the economy would improve.

    They arrested Bernie Madoff for his ponzi schemes and fraud.....but he was an amateur.

    Edited by PersianPaladin
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    Posted
  • Location: Dorset
  • Location: Dorset

    The EU still obviously doesn't get it going from the latest announcements by Mr Sarkozy......

    What total idiots sorry not time to write more about the announcement in depth but it's the usual european fudge and compromise that won't achieve very much.

    In a bit more detail and Ms Flanders(BBC) puts it better than I can below.

    "We need to see more details, but on the face of it, the deal has simply taken the Greek programme back into the realms of "just about plausible if everything goes right".

    President Sarkozy said yesterday that the deal would lower the Greek debt stock by about 24% of GDP. By extending maturities, it will also make that debt easier to service.

    Big 'if'

    That sounds impressive. Until you hear that the IMF has revised up its forecast for Greek debt in 2012 by 23 percentage points in the past 12 months alone. In July 2010, it forecast that Greek debt would be 149% of GDP in 2012. In its latest report, a few weeks ago, that number had gone up to 172%."

    i.e all the limited default has done it put the clock back 12 months, in 12 months time we will be talking about more haircuts etc. The general thoughts of the international markets is that a haircut of 40-50% is needed to save Greece. What we are looking at here is simply more lending (albeit at a lower rate) mainly to finance the banks in Greece since they have been frozen out of the international markets. The losses that the banks are set to take look large on the face of 20-22% is being talked about, however this is only 12-18 months profit that they have been making from Greek Bonds, since the start of the Crisis any holders of Greek bonds will still be in profit.

    So as 12 months ago the fate of the Euro is going to depend on the Greeks, Irish, Portugese, Spanish and Italians all doing everything they say they will do......Not likely really.

    In the mean time the European Union has become the largest investor in Sovereign debt in the world in recent months, the headache from this will pull Europe back even more over the next decade or so.

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    Posted
  • Location: Near Lauder, SE Scotland, 175 m asl
  • Location: Near Lauder, SE Scotland, 175 m asl

    Republican House Speaker John Boehner quits debt talksRepublican House Speaker John Boehner has walked away from crunch debt ceiling talks at the White House with US President Barack Obama.

    Mr Obama said Mr Boehner had rejected an "extraordinarily fair deal" that would have included $650bn (£400bn) of cuts to entitlement programmes.

    The president said he had been willing to take "a lot of heat" from his party.

    Mr Boehner told a news conference afterwards that Mr Obama had "moved the goal posts" by demanding a tax hike.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-14258888

    Jesus wept. US could well default, throwing the global economy into further chaos but the wealthy of the US still refusing to do their bit and pay a little more tax.

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    Posted
  • Location: Near Lauder, SE Scotland, 175 m asl
  • Location: Near Lauder, SE Scotland, 175 m asl

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-14267091

    Cable in attack on US 'right wing nutters'

    Vince Cable has attacked leading US Republican politicians for holding up a deal to reduce US government debt.

    Speaking on the BBC's Andrew Marr Show, the business secretary called them "a few right-wing nutters in the American Congress".

    Hear hear!

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    Posted
  • Location: Sunderland
  • Weather Preferences: cold
  • Location: Sunderland

    Euro markets taking a small fall today after successive gains last week: worries about Moody's Greece rating and imminent US default are on the investors' minds.

    DAX +0.1%

    FTSE -0.3%

    CAC -0.9%

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    Posted
  • Location: 4 miles north of Durham City
  • Location: 4 miles north of Durham City

    Put QE-56, a high-contango crude oil curve, $20 TLN in USA government debt, the banking-cartel, the Federal Reserve it owns, 8 shooting wars, the EVIL EMPIRE being on the totalitarian side of 50 civil wars, and occupying 125 nations into a blender, add a gallon of MAXIMUM OTC LEVERAGE FRAUD, put it on "stir intermittently" and drink often. You won't be disappointed. Assuming, most of the world on fire or in a multi-way therno-nuclear war, is your kind of thing.

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    Posted
  • Location: ANYWHERE BUT HERE
  • Weather Preferences: ALL WEATHER, NOT THE PETTY POLITICS OF MODS IN THIS SITE
  • Location: ANYWHERE BUT HERE

    To be honest, I'm not an expert. So, can someone tell me why 'short selling' was banned during the early days of the banking crisis? I understood it was related to this...

    http://en.wikipedia....d_short_selling

    "Abusive naked short selling has been illegal in the United States since 2008, as well as some other jurisdictions, as a method of driving down share prices"

    So I guess I am correct in that traders can and do try to make money out of bringing down companies?

    I know you are not correct in your thinking. This is how politicians who are not economists or financial experts make the mistake of interfering and cause havoc in markets by artificially creating a false market. If one takes Greece as an example; traders sold Greece

    because the Greek government had lied about the level of tax income it was receiving and this meant that the asset value was marked down by investors. Banks sold the Greek bonds ahead of the sell off and all this did was to bring about the correct level of the asset much quicker than if the news has been drip fed to the markets by politicians with an interest. Now Greece is trading at the correct level which is junk status because they will probably never repay the debts and investors will loose billions.

    If you were an investor.... ask yourself a simple question; would you give your life savings to Greece or would you invest in a safer alternative? If you believe in what you are preaching then you will give it to the Greek government because thats what they are telling you! so what will you do?

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    Posted
  • Location: 4 miles north of Durham City
  • Location: 4 miles north of Durham City

    Do not expect the BRICs to put up with this forever. It is not going to take them long to work out they can do their own banking, trade in their own currency, finance their own rasearch and marketing, and insure themselves. Then what will we do? Staff call centres for them?

    http://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2011/07/economic-dead-end/

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    Posted
  • Location: 4 miles north of Durham City
  • Location: 4 miles north of Durham City

    Interesting comment from the thread of the Craig Murray article:-

    some simple arithmetic to demonstrate the insanity of continued expectation of exponential growth. Quotes:

    .

    ‘No matter what the technology, a sustained 2.3% energy growth rate would require us to produce as much energy as the entire sun within 1400 years…..continued growth in energy use becomes physically impossible within conceivable timeframes….once we appreciate that physical growth must one day cease (or reverse), we can come to realize that all economic growth must similarly end.’

    .

    http://physics.ucsd.edu/do-the-math/2011/07/galactic-scale-energy/

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    Posted
  • Location: Huddersfield, 145m ASL
  • Weather Preferences: Lots of snow, lots of hot sun
  • Location: Huddersfield, 145m ASL

    Interesting comment from the thread of the Craig Murray article:-

    It's human nature though PP, the medium to long term questions which remain unanswered about where current economic ideologies are taking us are far too unpalatable and intractable to deal with, so therefore let's only consider the immediate future, and assume that some miracle of 'human ingenuity' will miraculously come along and save us all. Everyone knows there is no long term future in current global economic policies, and there is no future in some of the fundamentals that those same economic policies are based, (chief amongst them being cheap movement of goods and relatively cheap and plentiful supplies of raw materials), but as there is no 'Plan B' it is perfectly understandable that no-one is prepared to look beyond the next quarter's profit results...............

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    Posted
  • Location: 4 miles north of Durham City
  • Location: 4 miles north of Durham City

    It's human nature though PP, the medium to long term questions which remain unanswered about where current economic ideologies are taking us are far too unpalatable and intractable to deal with, so therefore let's only consider the immediate future, and assume that some miracle of 'human ingenuity' will miraculously come along and save us all. Everyone knows there is no long term future in current global economic policies, and there is no future in some of the fundamentals that those same economic policies are based, (chief amongst them being cheap movement of goods and relatively cheap and plentiful supplies of raw materials), but as there is no 'Plan B' it is perfectly understandable that no-one is prepared to look beyond the next quarter's profit results...............

    True.

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    Posted
  • Location: Near Lauder, SE Scotland, 175 m asl
  • Location: Near Lauder, SE Scotland, 175 m asl

    An interesting article from the BBC here on socio-economic problems in the SW U.S.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-14296682

    In Steinbeck's footsteps: America's middle-class underclass

    We're used to seeing homeless people here on the streets, but they are generally single, and commonly, although of course not exclusively, with abuse problems.

    In the US, you have whole families with Kids living on the floor of disused buildings; ex-restaurant managers, care salesman and he like. Once your unemployment benefit ends, that's it, you and the kids can end up on your own.

    What really gets me is the T party / republicans. These people are unreal. Thing is, they all sit around back slapping each other when they're rolling in it, but I imagine friends would vanish in an instant should you come upon hard times.

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    Posted
  • Location: Carryduff, County Down 420ft ASL
  • Location: Carryduff, County Down 420ft ASL

    Interesting comment from the thread of the Craig Murray article:-

    This is where war will eventually come in again. The competition for resources, energy and food will reach a tipping point, only a matter of when not if. Fundamentally millions will have to die so that others might live.

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    Posted
  • Location: 4 miles north of Durham City
  • Location: 4 miles north of Durham City

    This is where war will eventually come in again. The competition for resources, energy and food will reach a tipping point, only a matter of when not if. Fundamentally millions will have to die so that others might live.

    Can you picture Henry Kissinger, sitting back and saying "Right, the problem is not that there is too little oil...the problem is just that there are too many people" - Mike Ruppert

    Highly recommended:-

    http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-4884753318463778980

    Edited by PersianPaladin
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