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Posted
  • Location: Near Lauder, SE Scotland, 175 m asl
  • Location: Near Lauder, SE Scotland, 175 m asl

    Lord....maybe I'm becoming a leftie??

    LOL. Heaven forbid. Don't worry, it's acutally quite refreshing. Go on, just relax and let go of the Tory demon inside.http://nwstatic.co.uk/forum/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/laugh.gif

    There's a difference between being moderately conservative and just being a selfish barstool. I just can't believe that, even though the US is acutally facing a possible credit rating downgrade/default, the republicans wish the poorest to take the full hit with the wealthy to remain very comfortably so. Jeez, we're talking major economic f-up for the US and elsewhere unless they cut the deficit. Obama is being reasonable, but the republicans won't even discuss closing loopholes for the super-rich, even if it brings the whole thing crashing down. Like they have their head in the sand and can't believe the US could possibly be in financial difficulties. Nuts.

    I'm not by default for high nor low taxes - just as fair as possible and appropriate for the economic climate.

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    As harve has touched on, re inflation and interest rates, its a hell of complicated set up to understand correctly (nobody does imho), the news always presents it very clean, simplistically and wrong.

    Go Greek strikes Go.... It's not often I support strikes, but in this I do. They are absolutely right that Greece does not need more lending. It can't afford what it owes full stop, they still need t

    Afraid not, old bean; China has been a Communist People's Republic since, when, 1947? Just because it's a Tory government that's doing all the kow-towing makes not a jot of difference...But I bet that

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    Posted
  • Location: Chevening Kent
  • Location: Chevening Kent

    Rumours from yesterday that that the FED were looking at QE3 were quashed today when the FED's chairman said this was not the time for more easing.

    Its only really China keeping the US out of the crap that has stopped the dollar from free falling.

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    Posted
  • Location: Rochester, Kent
  • Location: Rochester, Kent

    Rumours from yesterday that that the FED were looking at QE3 were quashed today when the FED's chairman said this was not the time for more easing.

    Its only really China keeping the US out of the crap that has stopped the dollar from free falling.

    It's so serious, now, that the gold standard looks to be coming back by default (pun intended!) Futures on gold look to hit $5k, and capital transactions look to be backed by gold reserve not dollar leverages. Some real problems, and heartache look to be just around the corner. Seriously.

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    Posted
  • Location: ANYWHERE BUT HERE
  • Weather Preferences: ALL WEATHER, NOT THE PETTY POLITICS OF MODS IN THIS SITE
  • Location: ANYWHERE BUT HERE

    World ecconomy.....the future.....its a simple equation.

    Remuneration is a function of work done.

    The new world ecconomies will prosper as the amount of work they do increases.

    The western ecconomies are feeling the pinch because we are working less.

    The answer? easy.....we must work more for less. Thats why we now work ten years longer per lifetime.

    Simples ;)

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    Posted
  • Location: Near Lauder, SE Scotland, 175 m asl
  • Location: Near Lauder, SE Scotland, 175 m asl

    Remuneration is a function of work done.

    For most of us anyway. For many in the city, renumeration far exceeds useful work done.:whistling:

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    Posted
  • Location: Leeds/Bradford border, 185 metres above sea level, around 600 feet
  • Location: Leeds/Bradford border, 185 metres above sea level, around 600 feet

    The simple answer to all this is not to run fiscal deficits in the first place. If you run a surpluss and do not increase spending during the recession then there is a good chance that afterward you can go back to a 'boom' rather than austerity.

    Take the UK for example, 5.8% of GDP is what we lost during the recession and yet had we ran a 6% surpluss from 2007-2009, we would have no austerity and have recorded growth of 2%+ in 2010 (assuming consumer confidence was a large reason for Q4 contraction).

    This is the policy of some of the Scandinavian countries and something we need to adopt.

    Obvious downsides however are lower spending and a stronger pound enhancing the trade deficit.

    Edited by summer blizzard
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    Posted
  • Location: Chevening Kent
  • Location: Chevening Kent

    The simple answer to all this is not to run fiscal deficits in the first place. If you run a surpluss and do not increase spending during the recession then there is a good chance that afterward you can go back to a 'boom' rather than austerity.

    Take the UK for example, 5.8% of GDP is what we lost during the recession and yet had we ran a 6% surpluss from 2007-2009, we would have no austerity and have recorded growth of 2%+ in 2010 (assuming consumer confidence was a large reason for Q4 contraction).

    This is the policy of some of the Scandinavian countries and something we need to adopt.

    Obvious downsides however are lower spending and a stronger pound enhancing the trade deficit.

    That would put the Labour party out of business completely then! :drinks:
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    Posted
  • Location: Rochester, Kent
  • Location: Rochester, Kent

    For most of us anyway. For many in the city, renumeration far exceeds useful work done.:whistling:

    The premise is faulty. Renumeration is a function of the scarcity of the labour needed to complete the work.

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    Posted
  • Location: Near Lauder, SE Scotland, 175 m asl
  • Location: Near Lauder, SE Scotland, 175 m asl

    The premise is faulty. Renumeration is a function of the scarcity of the labour needed to complete the work.

    Aye, that would be the basic theory, but you will note I added the word 'useful' prior to work. I can think of a long list of professions which contribute much more to society yet renumeration for them is much less.

    Renumeration should also be a function of responsibilty; i.e. how accountable you are if you mess up what you are doing. A brain surgeon or a pilot are in that position. Even myself to an extent (if I recommend the wrong course of action to a client, it could be very costly and potentially dangerous, hence my co are massively insured). I don't recall lots of investment bankers being held to account when they lost huge amounts of other peoples money gambling with it on derivatives and the like. All we had were a few at the top mumbling a reluctant 'sorry' before settling into their new, similarly well-paid role somewhere else.

    EDIT. Tonight I have the honor of speaking alongside Sir John Meurig Thomas to welcome 600 conference delegates to Edinburgh. Now that is a man who has made a worthy contribution to society.:good:

    And yes, cr*ppin myself somewhat http://nwstatic.co.uk/forum/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/laugh.gif

    Edited by scottish skier
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    Posted
  • Location: Chevening Kent
  • Location: Chevening Kent

    Gold breaks through the £1000 barrier in New York trading this afternoon, a all time record! Just under 30% rise in 1 year giving it a total increase in the 5yrs from 2006 of 176%. There some very rich people out there on the back of it.

    I first told people to buy on here in 2009 @£600 per ounce!

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    Posted
  • Location: Near Lauder, SE Scotland, 175 m asl
  • Location: Near Lauder, SE Scotland, 175 m asl

    Gold breaks through the £1000 barrier in New York trading this afternoon, a all time record! Just under 30% rise in 1 year giving it a total increase in the 5yrs from 2006 of 176%. There some very rich people out there on the back of it.

    I first told people to buy on here in 2009 @£600 per ounce!

    Time to sell the wedding ring then!http://nwstatic.co.uk/forum/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/laugh.gif

    Pity Labour sold off UK gold reserves at rock bottom prices. Could have come in handy.

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    Posted
  • Location: Chevening Kent
  • Location: Chevening Kent

    Pity Labour sold off UK gold reserves at rock bottom prices. Could have come in handy.

    At @£200 per ounce, it was the bottom of the market because it was that sale that bottomed it, and its been on the up ever since. Good old Labour 'the finacial experts' :nonono: Edited by HighPressure
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    Posted
  • Location: Back in Edmonton Alberta(via Chelmsford, Exeter & Calgary)
  • Location: Back in Edmonton Alberta(via Chelmsford, Exeter & Calgary)

    The simple answer to all this is not to run fiscal deficits in the first place. If you run a surpluss and do not increase spending during the recession then there is a good chance that afterward you can go back to a 'boom' rather than austerity.

    Take the UK for example, 5.8% of GDP is what we lost during the recession and yet had we ran a 6% surpluss from 2007-2009, we would have no austerity and have recorded growth of 2%+ in 2010 (assuming consumer confidence was a large reason for Q4 contraction).

    This is the policy of some of the Scandinavian countries and something we need to adopt.

    Obvious downsides however are lower spending and a stronger pound enhancing the trade deficit.

    this is very similar to what has happened in Western Canada..big surplus prior to the crash..no easing during the recession..now growth is begining to boom again instead of austerity..In fact Canada as a whole is outperforming the States and most of Europe hence the reason the Canadian dollar is sooo strong right now. Edited by cheeky_monkey
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    Posted
  • Location: ANYWHERE BUT HERE
  • Weather Preferences: ALL WEATHER, NOT THE PETTY POLITICS OF MODS IN THIS SITE
  • Location: ANYWHERE BUT HERE

    For most of us anyway. For many in the city, renumeration far exceeds useful work done.:whistling:

    I understand why you are whisteling and rolling your eyes, But as you know very well.....in a free market ecconomy one doesnt get paid for nothing. There is a very good reason why some people in the city get paid a lot of money on occasions. If one understands market forces then one will understand why this is. Further, unless one has been in that very particular environment one will never be able to really understand why some will get paid very well.

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    Posted
  • Location: Sheffield South Yorkshire 160M Powering the Sheffield Shield
  • Weather Preferences: Any Extreme
  • Location: Sheffield South Yorkshire 160M Powering the Sheffield Shield

    ..in a free market ecconomy one doesnt get paid for nothing.

    I know a few people that get paid and actually do nothing...... Well little as possible.

    Edited by The PIT
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    Posted
  • Location: Near Lauder, SE Scotland, 175 m asl
  • Location: Near Lauder, SE Scotland, 175 m asl

    I understand why you are whisteling and rolling your eyes, But as you know very well.....in a free market ecconomy one doesnt get paid for nothing. There is a very good reason why some people in the city get paid a lot of money on occasions. If one understands market forces then one will understand why this is. Further, unless one has been in that very particular environment one will never be able to really understand why some will get paid very well.

    Yes, of course I understand the free market economy; I work in it (oil, gas and energy). I also have no problem with people investing in companies in the hope they grow. However, I have concerns over those that make money by means such as betting that a company fails etc, then trying to induce a run on said company in the hope that is exactly what happens. These people make no meaningful contribution to society, even causing financial problems globally, yet are rewarded massively for it in terms of money.

    That is all I was eluding too....:good:

    Money can make money, but only if it is used to create something of value. If it does not, it is merely moving it from from one place to another, creating nothing. Kinda like what happended recently, but in this case the money was largely fictional....

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    Posted
  • Location: Stoke Gifford, Bristol
  • Location: Stoke Gifford, Bristol

    Yes, of course I understand the free market economy; I work in it (oil, gas and energy). I also have no problem with people investing in companies in the hope they grow. However, I have concerns over those that make money by means such as betting that a company fails etc, then trying to induce a run on said company in the hope that is exactly what happens. These people make no meaningful contribution to society, even causing financial problems globally, yet are rewarded massively for it in terms of money.

    That is all I was eluding too....:good:

    Money can make money, but only if it is used to create something of value. If it does not, it is merely moving it from from one place to another, creating nothing. Kinda like what happended recently, but in this case the money was largely fictional....

    The thing is though SS, if the City packed up and went abroad we'd be right in sh#t street!

    Those 'bad' people support whole swathes of the British economy and public services, benefits, etc through the vast amounts of taxation raised through their employment.

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    Posted
  • Location: Near Lauder, SE Scotland, 175 m asl
  • Location: Near Lauder, SE Scotland, 175 m asl

    The thing is though SS, if the City packed up and went abroad we'd be right in sh#t street!

    Those 'bad' people support whole swathes of the British economy and public services, benefits, etc through the vast amounts of taxation raised through their employment.

    BB. I do not dispute that; as I noted, 'investing' can be for good purposes. I am a shareholder in a company myself. However, betting on and hoping for a company to fail, even trying to force a run on said company for profit is hardly a worthy cause. It is not investing wisely that I have problem with, rather some of the more unsavory practices.

    Forgive me if I'm wrong, but was it not the heads of various banks that were brought in front of governments all too recently to explain how their unscrupulous practices had brought the global economy to where it is now?

    Edit. I guess you know this chap?

    http://en.wikipedia..../Warren_Buffett

    Investing can be carried out well and for good purposes.

    "A market economy creates some lopsided payoffs to participants. The right endowment of vocal chords, anatomical structure, physical strength, or mental powers can produce enormous piles of claim checks (stocks, bonds, and other forms of capital) on future national output. Proper selection of ancestors similarly can result in lifetime supplies of such tickets upon birth. If zero real investment returns diverted a bit greater portion of the national output from such stockholders to equally worthy and hardworking citizens lacking jackpot-producing talents, it would seem unlikely to pose such an insult to an equitable world as to risk Divine Intervention."

    Edited by scottish skier
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    Posted
  • Location: 4 miles north of Durham City
  • Location: 4 miles north of Durham City

    The thing is though SS, if the City packed up and went abroad we'd be right in sh#t street!

    Those 'bad' people support whole swathes of the British economy and public services, benefits, etc through the vast amounts of taxation raised through their employment.

    They can burn in hell for all I care. They create nothing. They produce nothing. They are parasites, money-lenders and usurers who create credit out of thin air, and then demand interest on top. That's it - that's all they "produce" = GIVE ME MORE INTEREST...DEBT DEBT DEBT.

    We can create money debt-free and localize and democratize the process without the focus on debt and profit.

    They have got to go. They WILL create another crisis if we let them retain their power to create money - and that power has gotten particularly dangerous as money became more virtual and computerized and inflicted with ever greater complex and deceptive derivatives.

    Edited by PersianPaladin
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    Posted
  • Location: Sth Staffs/Shrops 105m/345' & NW Snowdonia 219m/719'
  • Location: Sth Staffs/Shrops 105m/345' & NW Snowdonia 219m/719'

    They can burn in hell for all I care. They create nothing. They produce nothing.

    I'm no fan of the taxpayer bail-out of the casino bankers and some of them can indeed burn in hell, but the banking sector is estimated to contribute at least 14% of the Country's GDP. That's a very big hole to fill in this current very fragile economy.

    Edited by kar999
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    Posted
  • Location: 4 miles north of Durham City
  • Location: 4 miles north of Durham City

    I'm no fan of the taxpayer bail-out of the casino bankers and some of them can indeed burn in hell, but the banking sector is estimated to contribute at least 14% of the Country's GDP. That's a very big hole to fill in this current very fragile economy.

    With what exactly...? What do they make? Are they entreprenuers with detailed business plans...or are they really just debt-mongers who fly from place to place - sucking the blood out of the economy and creating false-bubbles of credit and easy "money"?

    They don't deserve to get paid back.

    Edited by PersianPaladin
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    Posted
  • Location: 4 miles north of Durham City
  • Location: 4 miles north of Durham City

    Right now...in the USA, Senators and Congressmen are gruelling over a deal to resolve the debt crisis. In this current world-system - a default would have strong repurcussions.

    Economist Michael Hudson was spot-on about the whole reality of the financial sector in this interview.....excerpt:-

    HUDSON: Because they have the illusion that if you pay labor less, somehow you’re going to make the economy more competitive, and the economy can earn its way out of debts–meaning their employers, the banks and the companies–and make more profits and pay more bonuses and stock options, and somehow their constituency, Wall Street and the corporate economy, will become richer if they can only impoverish the economy.

    So essentially you can think of it as between a parasite and the host economy. A smart parasite in nature actually is in a symbiosis with the host and tries to steer to new food. It wants the host to find new food, doesn’t want it to get bigger; the parasite wants itself to get bigger. But to do that, it has to take over the host’s brain and make the brain think that the parasite, in this case the host, is the industrial economy, the real economy, production and consumption.

    The parasite is basically the financial sector. That’s the deficit commission. That’s the largest financier of the Obama administration. Obama appointed Wall Street lobbyists for the deficit commission, and basically their mind is a one-track mind: reduce labor’s wages. So what we have here is a dumb parasite, not a parasite. That’s the problem that’s facing the American economy today. The problem is that the parasite’s not only taken over the brain of the economy, which was supposed to be the government, but it’s taken over its own brain in the process. And it actually imagines that corporations can make larger profits and the industrial–the financial system can survive if they just bring on a depression. In fact, it’ll be the exact opposite.

    http://michael-hudson.com/2010/12/deficit-hawks-one-two-punch/

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    Posted
  • Location: Sth Staffs/Shrops 105m/345' & NW Snowdonia 219m/719'
  • Location: Sth Staffs/Shrops 105m/345' & NW Snowdonia 219m/719'

    With what exactly...?What do they make? Are they entreprenuers with detailed business plans...or are they really just debt-mongers who fly from place to place - sucking the blood out of the economy and creating false-bubbles of credit and easy "money"?

    They don't deserve to get paid back.

    "What do they make?" Not a lot.... but did you not see the programme Made in Britain with Evan Davis? (episode 3 is about the service sector.)

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b0125v5k

    What we make... Manufacturing now only accounts for 18% of GDP.

    I still hate them but I think you'll find bankers put money into the economoy as well as suck blood.

    A necessary evil??

    Edited by kar999
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    Posted
  • Location: Beccles, Suffolk.
  • Weather Preferences: Thunder, snow, heat, sunshine...
  • Location: Beccles, Suffolk.

    With what exactly...? What do they make? Are they entreprenuers with detailed business plans...or are they really just debt-mongers who fly from place to place - sucking the blood out of the economy and creating false-bubbles of credit and easy "money"?

    They don't deserve to get paid back.

    I agree, PP...The bankers are just like those Lloyd's 'names'. When the going's good they rake in the gains; but when it's bad they run cap-in-hand to the taxpayer. And, unlike with the 'names', there's always a public-service pension fund lying around awaiting a raid...

    What do they make? God knows! I thought that they merely moved other people's money (real or imaginary) from one place to another, for hugely inflated profits and bonuses (Never mind. We all make mistakes! :wallbash:) ...What car, hospital, prison, nurse or doctor was ever 'made' by a banker?? Scrapped, closed or sacked - because of a banker? - now that I can believe!

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    Posted
  • Location: 4 miles north of Durham City
  • Location: 4 miles north of Durham City

    "What do they make?" Not a lot.... but did you not see the programme Made in Britain with Evan Davis? (episode 3 is about the service sector.)

    http://www.bbc.co.uk...rammes/b0125v5k

    What we make... Manufacturing now only accounts for 18% of GDP.

    I still hate them but I think you'll find bankers put money into the economoy as well as suck blood.

    A necessary evil??

    Banks should be allowed to loan money (created debt-free by the government) within certain regulated limits, but not CREATE new money out of thin air as debt (digits on a computer screen) within an overly complex and unregulated fractional reserve system.

    Pete Tattum is correct. A lot of these people just earn their living by moving money around the world, and it's often done in a way that erodes the public interest of the respective societies affected.

    I'll check out that documentary in a bit.

    Edited by PersianPaladin
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