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noggin

"Climategate" Enquiry

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The alternative to assuming guilt/innocence based upon media reports, is simply to wait for the enquiry to finish. Both sides can speculate all they like but no one knows, we end up with the "my view is fairer than yours" which is purely subjective.

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I think, and we've been through this lots of times now, but work is quiet, that you will find the newspapers (unless you read the gutter trash) generally report the news, not make the news.

The Head of the ICO said the UEA witheld information requested under the FOI therefore by definition they broke the law. We don't need to wait until someone else says so.

That's to accept the case for the prosecution and not listen to the defence.

It's a bit like 100 people seeing someone killing his wife, he is guilty immediately and not after his trial.

Sheeshh. So, we don't need the law, all we need is accusations and a rope...

The alternative to assuming guilt/innocence based upon media reports, is simply to wait for the enquiry to finish. Both sides can speculate all they like but no one knows, we end up with the "my view is fairer than yours" which is purely subjective.

Indeed.

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You're trying to destroy the act, by attacking sceptics/deniers, rather than attack the law itself.

On the contrary, I'm not attacking sceptics at all... :wallbash:

And, as for the Act, just about everything that one would really want to know, isn't even covered by it... :lol:

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That's to accept the case for the prosecution and not the defence.

Sheeshh. So, we don't need the law, all we need is accusations and a rope...

Indeed.

No, we need patience and the willingness to let the enquiry do the job everyone is speculating upon.

It's no more right to stand outside the court saying "innocent until proven guilty" than it is to say "hang em" - both are uninformed, emotional responses to snippets of information.

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The alternative to assuming guilt/innocence based upon media reports, is simply to wait for the enquiry to finish. Both sides can speculate all they like but no one knows, we end up with the "my view is fairer than yours" which is purely subjective.

I quite agree! :wallbash:

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...

Sheeshh. So, we don't need the law, all we need is accusations and a rope...

...

You will note I said 'kill' not 'murder', so he is guilty of killing, but the trial would determine whether it was any number of alternatives that fit into the general heading.

Edit: That link is to a comment on here, with no links or backup to suggest anything. If thats the defence then the fall required is only about 4 foot...

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No, we need patience and the willingness to let the enquiry do the job everyone is speculating upon.

It's no more right to stand outside the court saying "innocent until proven guilty" than it is to say "hang em" - both are uninformed, emotional responses to snippets of information.

One stance is innocence or guilt the other just guilt so I don't think they are the same.

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I am doing my best to follow this complicated affair. However, it seems to me that certain information would make it easier for sceptics to provide a robust challenge to the science, but it is that information which has been with-held. :wallbash:

Really and truly, if it is all so important to mankind, then why won't they just release it as requested?

I am trying to be fair here, but am finding it difficult not to be suspicious of all the secrecy and request refusals.

In principle noggin, absolutely! It's the copyright question, though, that might be a problem? I don't think we'll know until after the inquiry. :lol:

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One stance is innocence or guilt the other just guilt so I don't think they the same.

Dev, you've already said your views are coloured by the motives of some.

That's the problem with opinions on this sort of thing, yes we're all entitled to them but it's nigh on impossible to be certain that we're being impartial. What's felt as impartial to one, is seen as biased by another and it's all entirely subjective.

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Dev, you've already said your views are coloured by the motives of some.

Yes, I have. But, as I said, I'm not accusing any one of breaking a law.

That's the problem with opinions on this sort of thing, yes we're all entitled to them but it's nigh on impossible to be certain that we're being impartial. What's felt as impartial to one, is seen as biased by another and it's all entirely subjective.

To want the law to take it's proper course is the opposite of being subjective isn't it? Some people assume guilt, it's surely a different position to want alleged guilt or not tested by defence and prosecution?

Anyway, enough from me on that :wallbash:

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Personally,I'd stuff the enquiry,save lots of cash and lock the lot up right nowlaugh.gif . Climate will,as ever,look after itself.

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Yes, I have. But, as I said, I'm not accusing any one of breaking a law.

To want the law to take it's proper course is the opposite of being subjective isn't it? Some people assume guilt, it's surely a different position to want guilt or not tested by defence and prosecution?

Anyway, enough from me on that :)

Assuming they haven't broken any laws, is just and fine. Seeing the efforts of some folk to obtain the information as being at best a nuisance, at worse justification for ignoring or blocking the requests as they're from reknowned sceptics; isn't any more fair minded than those making accusations of law breaking.

That's the subjective part and the one which could run and run in ever decreasing circles here. We don't know, we won't know until after the enquiry.

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Assuming they haven't broken any laws, is just and fine. Seeing the efforts of some folk to obtain the information as being at best a nuisance, at worse justification for ignoring or blocking the requests as they're from reknowned sceptics; isn't any more fair minded than those making accusations of law breaking.

That's the subjective part and the one which could run and run in ever decreasing circles here. We don't know, we won't know until after the enquiry.

Totally agree Jethro, I'm staying out of this debate until after the enquiry.

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Totally agree Jethro, I'm staying out of this debate until after the enquiry.

Good thinking, Batman! :lol:

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Totally agree Jethro, I'm staying out of this debate until after the enquiry.

Seems the only sensible route to me, glad I'm not the only one.

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Totally agree Jethro, I'm staying out of this debate until after the enquiry.

I say that to myself on a regular basis here, but I keep coming back! :lol:

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I hope some people here will be thoroughly ashamed of what this affair has nearly done to Dr Jones :(

To think he has received death threats and correspondences urging him to kill himself from some of the scumbags out there :aggressive: .

" “There were death threats,” he says. “People said I should go and kill myself. They said they knew where I lived.” Two more death threats came last week after the deputy information commissioner delivered his verdict, making more work for Norfolk police, who are already investigating the theft of the emails. The effect on Jones was devastating. The worldwide outcry plunged him into the snakepit of international politics. It was, he agrees, “a David Kelly moment”. “I did think about it, yes. About suicide. I thought about it several times, but I think I’ve got past that stage now.”"

Indeed, if you read the comments the terminators out there are still determined to get him. They are the very sewerage of human society those people :(

Why should I be I didn't send any emails and I'm pretty sure nobody on here did. Strange to hint that we did.

Anyway I'll send him some instructions on how to set up email filtering and how to press the delete key. There postmaster needs to get there act together as well.

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...

Anyway I'll send him some instructions on how to set up email filtering and how to press the delete key. ...

Then some scumbag somewhere would accuse him of hiding things again! :aggressive::( :(

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What goes around ,comes around. now the right wing 'Blog sphere' has show us the ground rules I'm pretty sure the same treatment will be doled out to them.

Let's see who still claims allegiance to their threads after that!

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What goes around ,comes around. now the right wing 'Blog sphere' has show us the ground rules I'm pretty sure the same treatment will be doled out to them.

There would be rough, reap what you sow, justice in that, but I'd honestly hope, given the chance, I'd not want Watts and McIntyre to suffer in the same way.

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I hope some people here will be thoroughly ashamed of what this affair has nearly done to Dr Jones :D

How dare you!!!

I cannot believe that you would assume, that some people who have contributed to this thread should in any way feel ashamed.

I have never read such rubbish in all my time on this forum! You should be banned for even suggesting that our discussion of the public announcement of the ICO should in anyway way make anyone in this thread feel guilty is beyond me.

It's people like you that set back the whole debate for years and years...

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Indeed, and I shall not be posting on these forums any more because of it.

I've never read such a ridiculous accusation. Hopefully someone in control here will see sense, but blaming anyone who is sceptical about AGW and saying we all wished someone dead is beyond a joke.

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How dare you!!!

I cannot believe that you would assume, that some people who have contributed to this thread should in any way feel ashamed.

I have never read such rubbish in all my time on this forum! You should be banned for even suggesting that our discussion of the public announcement of the ICO should in anyway way make anyone in this thread feel guilty is beyond me.

It's people like you that set back the whole debate for years and years...

Grrr. Talk about misrepresent me.

Look, I said (read my words!) SOME people here I did't name anyone but I think there are some here who should be ashamed of what they've said.

Because, Dr Jones has had death threats. You think someone like me who's met the man and admires him is in a good mood after knowing that???

I'll also say if my comment caused offence I DO sincerely apologise.

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Grrr. Talk about misrepresent me.

Look, I said (read my words!) SOME people here I did't name anyone but I think there are some here who should be ashamed of what they've said.

Because, Dr Jones has had death threats. You think someone like me who's met the man and admires him is in a good mood after knowing that???

I'll also say if my comment caused offence I DO sincerely apologise.

You really don't get it...

If you need to apologies in advance then you already know you shouldn't be saying it. I've read the thread end to end please enlighten us to who should be ashamed!!!

I'm out of here.

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Indeed, and I shall not be posting on these forums any more because of it.

I've never read such a ridiculous accusation. Hopefully someone in control here will see sense, but blaming anyone who is sceptical about AGW and saying we all wished someone dead is beyond a joke.

Can I refer you to my reply above and can I say I never suggested such a thing of you :whistling:

You really don't get it...

If you need to apologies in advance then you already know you shouldn't be saying it. I've read the thread end to end please enlighten us to who should be ashamed!!!

I'm out of here.

Huh? I haven't apologised in advance I've apologised if my comment caused you offence - it wasn't meant to.

Edit: Ok I can understand how my comment could read to mean what it wasn't meant to. I DO NOT wish to imply anyone wanted to see Dr Jones dead (that's ridiculous of course I don't say that) so, if I could, I'd remove the word 'here' (because it is clear some people elsewhere do wish him ill).

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