Cold Spell Discussion

[lfcdude]

Dear me, some of us have waited decades for this to happen, someone needs to lighten up a touch!

2bh ian is a very good weather forecaster, yes we love this weather, but think of the old folks were all going to be told one day

Edited January 7, 2010 by lfcdude

[Potent Gust]

But spare a thought for those profoundly (and potentially very dangerously) affected by this prolonged cold snap - not solely elderly and otherwise vulnerable people, but average 'folks' trying to earn a living / run a business / travel. Can we lower the 'yahoo' volume about this - and remember (and respect) that for many people, it's anything but 'fun' and potentially lethal.

Fair point but the same can be said of really warm spells and very windy weather. Each type of weather has its dangers but it doesnt't mean it is wrong to enjoy it.

[NorthernRab]

But spare a thought for those profoundly (and potentially very dangerously) affected by this prolonged cold snap - not solely elderly and otherwise vulnerable people, but average 'folks' trying to earn a living / run a business / travel. Can we lower the 'yahoo' volume about this - and remember (and respect) that for many people, it's anything but 'fun' and potentially lethal.

For goodness sake, if people look out for the elderly there is nothing to worry about at all! Cold weather doesn't kill old people, neglect does.

[Richard Lake]

Working for the BBC Ian has a duty to the public and the taxpayer and I am quite surprised he is 'allowed' on here - but tbh I think its great that even in 'so-called' democratic Britain this can happen.

Now on a lighter note.. I dare Ian to clenches his fists on his next broadcast and exclaim 'YES, YES, MORE SNOW!'

PS: I have no idea of your broadcasting style as I don't leave anywhere near the South West, but all the weather forecasters I ever see are mild-lovers. :) No one wants to hear them immortal words 'But at least its mild.' ~.~

Edited January 7, 2010 by rikki

[Ian Fergusson]

Dear me, some of us have waited decades for this to happen, someone needs to lighten up a touch!

OK: You tell that to the emergency services cutting people out of car accidents on the ice, in all hours and all weather. I spent enough time in the police way back in the early 1980's to attest to it being anything but a 'lighten up a touch' factor. As a certain police station / constabulary (and family) affected by the recent Cumbria flooding can well attest. This sort of weather takes lives, period, and that's hardly anything to 'lighten up a touch' about.

Severe weather is of course fascinating; that's why people are posting here. Fair play.

I'm merely suggesting that an unbalanced yahoo attitude takes things too far the other way. So, in the spirit of altruism, spare a thought for those who find these conditions anything but worth 'waiting a decade to happen'.

[disco-barry]

I don't know if anybody has said this but i do realise it causes problems for people and people do fall and get hurt by the ice but the key thing for me and the younger lot on here is we are actually living through one of these very cold prolonged snowy spells for the first time, alright i've had a week here and there but i've had snow laying for weeks now and more keeps coming and temps keep dropping....So i find it more of a privilege worth enjoying and battling through sometimes because it is going to be memorable....Skiing in the Pennines in West Yorkshire this weekend, can't wait.

[Mark Bayley]

Working for the BBC Ian has a duty to the public and the taxpayer and I am quite surprised he is 'allowed' on here - but tbh I think its great that even in 'so-called' democratic Britain this can happen.

Now on a lighter note.. I dare Ian to clenches his fists on his next broadcast and exclaim 'YES, YES, MORE SNOW!'

PS: I have no idea of your broadcasting style as I don't leave anywhere near the South West, but all the weather forecasters I ever see are mild-lovers. No one wants to hear them immortal words 'But at least its mild.' ~.~

So Rob M is mild lover

(He certainly loves the snow!)

Got 14cm on the ground here, with perhaps more snow on the way, looking good :lol:

[Airedalejoe]

OK: You tell that to the emergency services cutting people out of car accidents on the ice, in all hours and all weather. I spent enough time in the police way back in the early 1980's to attest to it being anything but a 'lighten up a touch' factor. As a certain police station / constabulary (and family) affected by the recent Cumbria flooding can well attest. This sort of weather takes lives, period, and that's hardly anything to 'lighten up a touch' about.

Severe weather is of course fascinating; that's why people are posting here. Fair play.

I'm merely suggesting that an unbalanced yahoo attitude takes things too far the other way. So, in the spirit of altruism, spare a thought for those who find these conditions anything but worth 'waiting a decade to happen'.

I see it from all sides, I am part of the emergency services currently and have spent several recent night shifts working very hard helping folk in this extreme(UK) winter weather, today was the fun side, sledging /walking with my kids.

[Thundery wintry showers]

It's a tricky, emotive and touchy one this- I'm not surprised it's generating so much heated response.

I can see where Ian is coming from- after all I get my back up at the media preaching to us that "cold and snow is bad, mild and drizzly is wonderful", and argue that it would be better if media forecasts, in particular, used just a minimum of subjectivity and left it up to viewers to make judgements on what is good and bad, out of respect for the fact that different people have alternative views. The boot is emphatically on the other foot in the model output discussion threads but a similar argument could equally apply, especially when some of these "people with alternative views" are really suffering.

While I often make judgements on what I think is good and bad in the general chat and moods threads, I try to keep it to a minimum in the model output discussion threads and in my forecasts- it's all about being consistent and practicing what I preach.

At the same time, I stand firmly by my earlier position that nobody should be made to feel guilty for enjoying this weather or wishing for more of it, regardless of what misery it may be causing to others- making ourselves miserable over something we can't control doesn't achieve anything, some may say it's respectful, I think it's more like martyrdom. But when it comes to where and when we express it, there are, perhaps, limits beyond which it does become unreasonable.

Edited January 7, 2010 by Thundery wintry showers

[Osbourne One-Nil]

I can see where Ian is coming from- after all I get my back up at the media preaching to us that "cold and snow is bad, mild and drizzly is wonderful", and argue that it would be better if media forecasts, in particular, used just a minimum of subjectivity and left it up to viewers to make judgements on what is good and bad, out of respect for the fact that different people have alternative views. The boot is emphatically on the other foot in the model output discussion threads but a similar argument could equally apply, especially when some of these "people with alternative views" are really suffering.

While I often make judgements on what I think is good and bad in the general chat and moods threads, I try to keep it to a minimum in the model output discussion threads and in my forecasts- it's all about being consistent and practicing what I preach.

At the same time, I stand firmly by my earlier position that nobody should be made to feel guilty for enjoying this weather or wishing for more of it, regardless of what misery it may be causing to others- making ourselves miserable over something we can't control doesn't achieve anything, some may say it's respectful, I think it's more like martyrdom. But when it comes to where and when we express it, there are, perhaps, limits beyond which it does become unreasonable.

I've always been in awe of your ability to see most things from both side's points of view!

I wonder if I peaked too soon? It dropped to -13.8C a short while ago, but now back 'up' to -13.1C. I pity the dog having to wee in this.

[Mondy]

nice Sat Picture on BBC Site

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/in_depth/8447023.stm

Yep, it's a cracker.

The one in IF's BBC blog cuts off Scotland - any idea why? (LINKY)

Hate to think as a country we were just blatantly omitted, especially from the BBC which should, ideally, cover the UK as a whole

[❄️❄️❄️❄️❄️❄️❄️❄️❄️]

I pity the dog having to wee in this.

I think you've taken comments about your wife a bit too far.

[MAF]

But spare a thought for those profoundly (and potentially very dangerously) affected by this prolonged cold snap - not solely elderly and otherwise vulnerable people, but average 'folks' trying to earn a living / run a business / travel. Can we lower the 'yahoo' volume about this - and remember (and respect) that for many people, it's anything but 'fun' and potentially lethal.

yes, a valid thought and worth remembering that it takes a tiny amount of time to just call on an eldery/frail/infirm neighbour/relative/friend and check they are ok. i know for a fact that there are eldery people sat in the cold indoors because they are scared stiff to build a huge gas/electric bill.

so yes. by all means enjoy the weather if its your type, but lets remember there are some who might be struggling

and as someone has mentioned, any type of weather might put vunerable people at risk, but right now its winter so its the cold thats what we are talking about :)

[Nick L]

Right, at the moment half the people are loving it, half the people aren't liking it and are pretty miserable right now. How is everyone being miserable about it going to help anyone? No matter what we THINK, nothing is going to change. We can still look out for those in need, while still enjoying it ourselves.

We have waited so long for this, I am not going to be told to stop enjoying this!

[Thundery wintry showers]

I agree, but as per my above post, I think (or at least hope) that this isn't quite what Ian was getting at.

[kar999]

interesting weather discussion on Newsnight bbc2 right now

Edit... just finished... one for i-player

Edited January 7, 2010 by kar999

[chapmanslade]

after all I get my back up at the media preaching to us that "cold and snow is bad, mild and drizzly is wonderful",

You know what - mild and drizzly never hurt anyone and allows us to go to work and come home again without noticing the weather which is wonderful if you work outside. Cold and snow is fun if you don't have to work and can go sledging with the kids as I will do on my half day on Friday - just got to endure Friday morning outside working first.

Edited January 7, 2010 by chapmanslade

[Thundery wintry showers]

Yes, that's a perfectly valid opinion to have. I get the impression that most of the media assume that the vast majority of people couldn't care less about the weather except when it causes inconvenience and disruption, which matches up perfectly with its stance on what is good and bad (though I think this assumption is well wide of the mark, from experience, most people do have at least a passing interest in the weather). And of course many jobs working outside are best if there is as little weather as possible, which would amount to much the same set of views.

Just as long as it isn't portrayed as if it's the only "correct" way to think- which these days it all too often is within the media.

Edited January 7, 2010 by Thundery wintry showers

[James M]

Sorry if this has been posted before, but what an amazing Sat image from NASA!!!

http://rapidfire.sci...7.1150.500m.jpg

Nearly the whole country is white! not very often you see that.

Edited January 7, 2010 by James M

[Osbourne One-Nil]

Beyond that, who knows...

Francis Wilson. The man who does for weather forecasting what Christopher Biggins did for the Die Hard series of films.

[Thundery wintry showers]

Yes, when was the last time snow cover was this widespread? I'm not even sure if the easterly outbreak of February 1991 managed it- after all when you get an easterly like that, some sheltered western parts will tend to stay dry even when most of the country is submerged under deep snow.

To my mind, in terms of distribution and severity the 5th/6th January snow event, including the front moving down from Scotland, the disturbance moving across the south and the snow showers towards the northeast, qualified as the most significant across the UK as a whole since the aforementioned one in Feb '91.

[tumbleweed]

The weather we are experiencing now is something we have seen before in previous years and indeed has been well documented.

There are lessons to be learned from this:

1. The complacency that we will have mild, grey winters with a couple of brief days of snow during February and March every year has to stop

2. Allowing accountants to run the country using the averages formula for stock piles of grit and reserves of gas, oil and petrol reserves has to be reviewed

3. I have read that Local Authorities were only advised by governing bodies to only store six days worth of grit/salt , this has to be reviewed and maybe the average increased to 30 to 40 days stockpiled every year regardless

4. We need to review how people used to survive and get on with things back in 1946/1947, 1963, 1978/1979 and learn from that

Overall I would say the people of Britain have adopted the Dunkirk spirit, people are actually helping each other and talking to each other and this skill has been hidden for years

[echobase]

4. We need to review how people used to survive and get on with things back in 1978/1979 and learn from that

Overall I would say the people of Britain have adopted the Dunkirk spirit, people are actually helping each other and talking to each other and this skill has been hidden for years

[chapmanslade]

The weather we are experiencing now is something we have seen before in previous years and indeed has been well documented.

There are lessons to be learned from this:

1. The complacency that we will have mild, grey winters with a couple of brief days of snow during February and March every year has to stop

2. Allowing accountants to run the country using the averages formula for stock piles of grit and reserves of gas, oil and petrol reserves has to be reviewed

3. I have read that Local Authorities were only advised by governing bodies to only store six days worth of grit/salt , this has to be reviewed and maybe the average increased to 30 to 40 days stockpiled every year regardless

4. We need to review how people used to survive and get on with things back in 1946/1947, 1963, 1978/1979 and learn from that

Overall I would say the people of Britain have adopted the Dunkirk spirit, people are actually helping each other and talking to each other and this skill has been hidden for years

Really ? And who exactly is going to pay for it when it happens once every 25 years ? You quote 3 winters in the last 60 years - we need to be prepared for the other 57 winters and hang in there for the 3 or 4 weeks of cold every now and then.

There is no point having 40 days grit without the lorries that will simply rust away unused for 20 years

They survived in the previous events by getting on with it - clearing their own roads, helping each other out and not blaming others when things get a bit difficult

[echobase]

Really ? And who exactly is going to pay for it when it happens once every 25 years ? You quote 3 winters in the last 60 years - we need to be prepared for the other 57 winters and hang in there for the 3 or 4 weeks of cold every now and then.

There is no point having 40 days grit without the lorries that will simply rust away unused for 20 years

They survived in the previous events by getting on with it - clearing their own roads, helping each other out and not blaming others when things get a bit difficult

And in that statement lies the point... You, by gritting an area outside of your property become liable for any injury to a fellow human. The law states this and makes the thought of `getting on with it` more risky.

Clearing your own road makes you liable, helping another makes you liable, so therefore blaming others becomes the normal and a darn sight safer.

Whatever happened to that spirit?? Or did it die in an age of legallities?

Edited January 7, 2010 by ECHOBASE1975MK6