50 Days To Save The World

[Gray-Wolf]

Though I've always thought my Tog 13.5 was enough for winter (trapping enough warmth to keep me snug) I can see that my past experience is in error and I'll probably need a couple of them (at least) this time around to have the same effect........

[jethro]

More about Copenhagen and why it's unlikely to yield anything of substance: http://www.nature.com/news/2009/091021/full/4611034a.html?s=news_rss

Details of a new agreement between China and India who are planning to go it, alone outside of any UN treaty's and away from pressure from Europe and the USA: http://www.americanthinker.com/2009/10/chinaindia_accord_to_scuttle_u.html

Though I've always thought my Tog 13.5 was enough for winter (trapping enough warmth to keep me snug) I can see that my past experience is in error and I'll probably need a couple of them (at least) this time around to have the same effect........

Wouldn't your choice be dependant upon many variables such as the weather outside, whether or not the heating worked or was on, whether or not you were wearing your thick Winceyette pyjamas or the thin cotton ones, or maybe none at all, windows open or shut, hot water bottle or not, someone else to cuddle up to, or not; so many things contributing to such a simple decision

[laserguy]

Wouldn't your choice be dependant upon many variables such as the weather outside, whether or not the heating worked or was on, whether or not you were wearing your thick Winceyette pyjamas or the thin cotton ones, or maybe none at all, windows open or shut, hot water bottle or not, someone else to cuddle up to, or not; so many things contributing to such a simple decision

When in doubt,get the electric blanket out,that's what I always say.... a solar lunar powered one,naturally!

[jethro]

You see, there's another variable I hadn't even thought of; the simplest of things are so complicated, the devil's in the detail eh...

How do we compare modern day, centrally heated, double glazed, duvet clad sleeping with coal fires, single glazing and blankets with an eiderdown if you were lucky? I thought I was toasty years ago, but maybe I wasn't as toasty as I thought and of course, older bones feel the cold more....

[Methuselah]

Why not cover the whole world in a duvet? Been there, done that!!!

Over to you LG!

[laserguy]

Why not cover the whole world in a duvet? Been there, done that!!!

Over to you LG!

But it already is,Pete! A carbon dioxide one,and though I'm reliably(?) informed that it keeps getting thicker and thicker,they can't keep up with repairing all the holes which keep appearing in it.

[Methuselah]

But it already is,Pete! A carbon dioxide one,and though I'm reliably(?) informed that it keeps getting thicker and thicker,they can't keep up with repairing all the holes which keep appearing in it.

They said the same thing about the ozone layer?

[Kained]

The gap on that poll has widened a bit further with 5448 counted in and 6882 counted out at the time of typing this.

It's now:

768 counted in so far

5240 counted out so far

The variation in poll numbers has been interesting. Perhaps they've been spammed by invalid submissions, or perhaps had trouble with the code.

[Gray-Wolf]

How do we compare modern day, centrally heated, double glazed, duvet clad sleeping with coal fires, single glazing and blankets with an eiderdown if you were lucky? I thought I was toasty years ago, but maybe I wasn't as toasty as I thought and of course, older bones feel the cold more....

Well I'm still in the same old house as it ever was, things have been moved around but all the other variables are still the same.

I've never had the luxury, in this old place ,of doubling my heating potential, so my only way of getting snugglier is to thicken up the medium that traps in my heat and bathes me in it.

It may take a while to get snuggly but I know ,from past experience, that it will (in time) and once it is ,so long as I don't kick it off ,it'll remain that way.

[LomondSnowstorm]

I gave mine, together with a fairly comprehensive explanation of why. If they come to get me and I disappear from these boards, please rescue me.....

Just had a quick peek at the results so far.

Count me in: 5400

Count me out: 6297

At the moment, the nays have it.

great, so that means the climate change act is repealed and ed milliband and gordon brown won't attend Copenhagen?

[jethro]

Well I'm still in the same old house as it ever was, things have been moved around but all the other variables are still the same.

I've never had the luxury, in this old place ,of doubling my heating potential, so my only way of getting snugglier is to thicken up the medium that traps in my heat and bathes me in it.

It may take a while to get snuggly but I know ,from past experience, that it will (in time) and once it is ,so long as I don't kick it off ,it'll remain that way.

I envy you and your constancy. No matter how hard I try I can't achieve it, the thermostats on the radiators are supposed to keep things constant without the need to turn the boiler up and down, but still the temperature goes up and down like a yoyo. I suppose if I averaged everything out over a year or three, I'd recognise a basic level of evenness but it would mask the times I've found yet another draft I've had to stop up, or a blanket added and then removed.

[noggin]

http://uk.news.yahoo.com/21/20091028/tuk-climate-change-to-hit-food-prices-6323e80.html

39 days to go. Something will have to be done or we will be paying £6.50 for a loaf of bread and the beer drinkers will be paying £18 for a pint.

[laserguy]

http://uk.news.yahoo...es-6323e80.html

39 days to go. Something will have to be done or we will be paying £6.50 for a loaf of bread and the beer drinkers will be paying £18 for a pint.

Not me Nog - knocking up 10 gallons today,works out at,ooh,30p a pint maybe !

Before I go 'mashin' and spargin',here's something else you might like to read

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/comment/ambroseevans_pritchard/6432538/Food-will-never-be-so-cheap-again.html

Edited October 29, 2009 by laserguy

[Gray-Wolf]

http://uk.news.yahoo...es-6323e80.html

39 days to go. Something will have to be done or we will be paying £6.50 for a loaf of bread and the beer drinkers will be paying £18 for a pint.

Let them eat cake.........

[Mr Maunder]

Before I go 'mashin' and spargin',here's something else you might like to read

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/comment/ambroseevans_pritchard/6432538/Food-will-never-be-so-cheap-again.html

Ah Ambrose Pritchard....the resident Telegraph voice of doom!

I suppose it is just possible he could post here under a pseudonym.....he might even be posting on this thread!

MM

[laserguy]

Ah Ambrose Pritchard....the resident Telegraph voice of doom!

I suppose it is just possible he could post here under a pseudonym.....he might even be posting on this thread!

MM

Um,go on then,enlighten me Mr.M! I'm clearly missing something unless you're referring to,er,no I won't!

[jethro]

The Science Museum poll continues to run, as does the confusion over the numbers. It would appear that they were hit by duplicate votes, they've done their best to sort it out and currently the situation is 907 count me in, against 5996 count me out - the nays have it by a staggering majority.

This seems to be causing a bit of a stir in some quarters; http://climaterealists.com/index.php?id=4240&linkbox=true&position=2

Their headline, in bold, red typeface (just in case you might miss it) states

"A poll by the Science Museum designed to convince the nation of the perils posed by climate change has backfired after being hijacked by sceptics."

Which is kind of odd given that a statement by the Science Museum, on their website says:

"Between Friday 23 and Wednesday 28 October the poll associated with Prove It! was manipulated through repeat voting. This was undertaken by those who wanted to be “counted in” and those who wanted to be “counted out”

Surely they would know better than other folk which side had been playing dirty? According to them, it was both sides.

http://www.sciencemuseum.org.uk/about_us/press_and_media/press_releases/2009/10/Prove%20It%20Results.aspx

Why let a silly little thing like truth get in the way of a good headline eh?

[Gray-Wolf]

http://www.oceanlead...-pacific-ocean/

One of the platforms we use to reconstruct paleo-climates (and May's press release). J.O.I.D.E.S. has recently pulled a core that shows 450ppm CO2 has not been a figure we've seen for 20 million years.....a time when temps were 3 to 6c higher and sea levels were 25m higher (we've picked 450ppm as our 'halt point'...currently 390ppm and rising from the 280ppm that existed for the 10,000yrs of human 'civilisation')

Edited November 1, 2009 by Gray-Wolf

[Methuselah]

Whatever the poll shows, however much it's been hijacked by idiots (from both sides!) 6000-or-so votes out of a possible 60 million (IMO) indicates that the populace as a whole, couldn't give a toss!

[Gray-Wolf]

I'm just thinking, by the time I'm 65 CO2 will be twice the average it has been for the past glacial period (or longer by at least 24 million years, if you trust long columns of 'goo' and the evidence that they hold within).

For the folk who hold GHG's as just that and hold heat on the planet, yet cannot accept we are 'forcing our climate' just now (at our elevated levels), how's about when we've just plain doubled them in our atmosphere?

Can you see any potential dangers at that point?

[laserguy]

So,how many days left now 'til the hammer comes down? I can't be in the least bit bothered to go back and work it out. But here we are on the 3rd of November and in a little while London will be lit up for Xmas,a scene to be repeated thousands of times across the land in due course. While all those happy-faced youngsters bathe in the seasonal glow,they can look forward to going home to see the adverts which tell them that what their government and councils have just treated them to is in fact,going to bring about the end of the world. Whatever you do with any electrical gifts you receive for Xmas,don't plug them in. I'm utterly,absolutely,completely and totally sick to death of the CO2 scam.

[Devonian]

So,how many days left now 'til the hammer comes down? I can't be in the least bit bothered to go back and work it out. But here we are on the 3rd of November and in a little while London will be lit up for Xmas,a scene to be repeated thousands of times across the land in due course. While all those happy-faced youngsters bathe in the seasonal glow,they can look forward to going home to see the adverts which tell them that what their government and councils have just treated them to is in fact,going to bring about the end of the world. Whatever you do with any electrical gifts you receive for Xmas,don't plug them in. I'm utterly,absolutely,completely and totally sick to death of the CO2 scam.

It's not a scam and no amount of such false allegations will change that.

But, yes, it looks like we, humans, will continue to use up finite fossil fuels as fast as we possibly can. I think that's a silly thing to do, but, yes, atm, most people clearly think it's the way to go. Time will tell who is right.

Edited November 4, 2009 by Devonian

[noggin]

I'm utterly,absolutely,completely and totally sick to death of the CO2 scam.

Me too, Laserguy, me too.

What I do is keep my own part of the world as unpolluted as I can and try not to throw stuff at the telly when there is more c57p about CO2 on.

33 days to go, btw.

[laserguy]

What I do is keep my own part of the world as unpolluted as I can and try not to throw stuff at the telly when there is more c57p about CO2 on.

Oh I try my best,on both counts. Really I do. Not being the rampant consumerist that us 'deniers' are often portrayed as being,our telly is about 14 years old - one of those with the huge cathode ray tube that takes up a corner of the room. No signs of it's imminent demise yet,but when there is it'll go out in a blaze of glory when more CO2 crap catches me at the wrong moment. Boy I've been waiting long enough. Don't think I'll replace it either - it can turn minds,y'know.

[Gray-Wolf]

So it is as I have suspected?

There are a proportion of AGW 'deniers' who do not see CO2 as an issue because they cannot see any 'instant impact' from todays elevated levels?

I know C-Bob has me as a broken record and V.P. is awaiting evidence of CO2's past impact on temps (hope I'm right there though I'd thought that I'd covered that ground as far as anyone can with the data available?) but I cannot move on from my 'sticking point' of past climates that illustrate that where CO2 was high, temp was also elevated.

Once again I'd have to say (personally) that I can find no 'drivers', including those we have recognised/isolated thus far, that would appear to have the potential to have raised the planets temps (over those extended periods) to the levels that we see (from our paleo climatic evidence) without greenhouse gasses being present (in the elevated amounts they were) to both trap and accumulate any 'extras' that became available over time.

V.P. and C-Bob may find it easier to convince me as to why the relationship between temp/CO2 (that we see from ice core records plotting the Milankovich cycles) cannot be extended to into geological time if they brought forward drivers that are imposing enough (in both duration and impact) to explain the climates that we see (in the most recent epochs we have discussed) without relying GHG's, and their properties, to maintain them.