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Technology And Extra Officials In Football

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Following on from the Eduardo dive and calls for the introduction of more technology (or use of) and the experient with extra officials in this years Europa competition. I wondered what the view was on here about the introduction of such things?

I am against it!

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I'm all fot it...

We can put a man on the moon - but we can't use technology to decide whether a ball has crossed a line?? :D

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Most people say that, but I have a different view:

Football is the peoples game and is played at all levels from parks to Old Trafford, the laws of the game must be the same for all. I support a non-league team and we face the same issues that Manchester United do but we do not have the resources to employ the technology. The problem is because of our level we meet sides that do have the resources to employ at least some of these technologies and its unfair if you can challenge a decision based on resources that the other team may not have. A refereering decision tomorrow in the Ryman Lge match I shall be attending is every bit as important as the decisions made at Old Trafford tomorrow evening to split the game for the sake of money goes against every principle. Referees, Linesman all make errors which has always been part and parcel of the game and so should it continue from Sunday morning parks to World Cup finals.

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Im for it, most other sports have it why not football? As for Eduardo, Im not suprised by his actions, same ol' Arsenal always cheating (scum bags)nonono.gif

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There should be a system that easily determines if the ball fully crosses the line.

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There are a few issues with that line of argument (which is one of the most popular ones used against video technology):

1. Just because a problem is the norm (in this case various unjust refereeing decisions), it doesn't make it right, nor does it make it unvaoidable.

Referees, Linesman all make errors which has always been part and parcel of the game

On a related note, that's basically saying "that's life" to a problem that we can do something about.

2. Just because some can't have it, why should everyone else be brought down to the lowest common denominator?

As a general rule the highest divisions get the chance to employ referees who are qualified to the maximum while the lowest divisions do not. Since football is the people's game, should we bar the highest divisions from getting the highest-qualified referees to keep the "rules" the same for everybody?

The other point that often gets missed is that video technology would not take the human side out of football, nor prevent bad refereeing decisions from occurring. Rather, it would simply lessen the extent to which the most important calls (e.g. a ball crossing the line, offside decisions etc) were wrong. We would still get referees making incorrect judgements about whether something is a foul or not, and marginal calls where you can argue either way and the referee has to decide one way or the other. I would be more prepared to support that line of argument if we were talking measures that would strip football of its controversial talking points... but it won't.

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Its a tough one to be honest. Mistakes by officials in football have long been part and parcel of the game. The problem is that nowadays there is so much money involved in the game and one mistake by an official that in the past could have cost a team promotion and thousands of pounds, whereas now it could cost a team millions of pounds.

I'm all for goal line technology, but thats about it. For incidents such as the Eduardo diving incident, then that should be dealt with by the FA after the match, the player heavily fined and banned for a long time - that would soon stamp out the diving.

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Its a tough one to be honest. Mistakes by officials in football have long been part and parcel of the game. The problem is that nowadays there is so much money involved in the game and one mistake by an official that in the past could have cost a team promotion and thousands of pounds, whereas now it could cost a team millions of pounds.

Money is relative to a teams level the amounts are irrelevant as they are just as important to any team and has the same relative effect.

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Money is relative to a teams level the amounts are irrelevant as they are just as important to any team and has the same relative effect.

Not sure I'd agree with that to be honest. Promotion to the Premiership from the Championship is worth £60m...now if someone like Peterborough got promoted then that would be a huge windfall for them, whereas for someone like Newcastle it would be different wouldn't it?

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I really don't see what's that hard about deciding whether the ball's crosed the line? :)

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Now lets have honest players and make the refs job easier. No need for extra technology then is there.

Anyway the fourth official can always look at replays and then advice the ref. You don't need to employ any more people really. Apart from telling the managers what to do what does the fourth offical do bar holding up the subs board and showing how much extra time.

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I really don't get this "it shouldn't be addressed because it's always been part and parcel of the game" argument, or why it should apply unless money over-rides it. I see a similar argument applied to much larger issues on the grand scale of things, namely "injustice X shouldn't be addressed, because this is the way things have always been, that's life and it's just the way it is". Surely if injustices can be helped we should help them?

I really don't see wholly unjust and critical refereeing decisions being good for the sport, e.g. a team being unjustly awarded or denied a goal or penalty, or a player getting sent off for no good reason. They are the football equivalent of unjust penalties being given to drivers in Formula One. They serve to infuriate fans and incite hatred of referees, and help to make the "Respect" campaign somewhat one-sided. This is distinct from sources of controversy and talking points, which as mentioned before I generally see as a good thing, and so I would be against the use of video technology to curb those, but curbing the blatant injustices is another matter.

Bad referring decisions do not even out over the course of a season, because the top teams usually get more of the decisions than the lower teams, and it's rather hard on the lower teams turning around and saying "that's life".

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Sometimes, I think we should go back to the times before nets were brought-in...Wasn't the 'onion-bag' the 'goal-line technology' of its day?

TWS makes a valid point: bad decisions may well 'average themselves out' between Chelsea, Man U, Man C, Spurs, Arsenal anbd Everton? (Celtic and Rangers?); but, how many will go the way of Hull City or Burnley at Old Trafford? None!

All it needs is a device that lets the ref know whether the ball's crossed the line 'between the sticks'; a simple green, red, blue or yellow light ought to be enough?

What's the problem?

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Goal line disputes ONLY, I don't want it interfering with the game like in rugby.

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I could of posted this in the Diving thread because its relevant to both, last night my side progreessed to the FA Cup 2q round by beating Margate 3-2 AET. Our equalising goal came on 93mins when the ball was bought under to control by our players hand before he tapped home from 3 yards. The ref and linesman both missed it but those standing behind the goal clearly saw it as did a number of Margate players, before the restart their No4 was sent off for descent about the incident.

Now my side benefited but its typical of what happens to our teams week in week out and all levels, should my side be kicked out the FA Cup and the sending off be rescinded? Maybe the player involved should now be banned for 2 matches for deceiving the referee?

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But this isn't about restrospectively modifying outcomes after the match was played. Indeed, the idea of using technology to help referees is strongly tied in with the line "once a decision is made and an outcome results it should stand, regardless of whether the decision was good or bad". The idea is to help them to reduce the amount of obvious mistakes that they make in the first place, such that the outcome is more commonly a good one, and one by-product of that would be less pressure to subsequently reverse decisions that occurred in the game, including sendings off and lack of punishments for diving.

Regarding the sending off for dissent, I do sometimes detect an air of circular authority, in that if a player argues with a ref's decision it is more likely to result in a sending off if it was a wrong decision than if it was a right one- maybe some refs realise they've made a mistake and use their authority to cover it up.

To take an analogy with Formula One, these arguments against technology are like saying "We shouldn't do anything about unjust and inconsistent rules and officiating in F1 because it's always been that way in recent times and so we should just accept it as part and parcel of F1. Lower-down racing series might not be able to afford the same measures to improve officiating standards as Formula One can, so why should F1 get those measures?"

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Most people say that, but I have a different view:

Football is the peoples game and is played at all levels from parks to Old Trafford, the laws of the game must be the same for all. I support a non-league team and we face the same issues that Manchester United do but we do not have the resources to employ the technology. The problem is because of our level we meet sides that do have the resources to employ at least some of these technologies and its unfair if you can challenge a decision based on resources that the other team may not have.

This arguement does not hold water...you are assuming it would cost a fortune to implement i guarantee the technology exist where i could set up the system with the use of one lap top and 4 point light lasers..job done for about £500.

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This arguement does not hold water...you are assuming it would cost a fortune to implement i guarantee the technology exist where i could set up the system with the use of one lap top and 4 point light lasers..job done for about £500.

I think that goal line technology could be installed at most levels fairly cheaply, but the idea of these multi angle replays is not feasible, in fact my club are struggling to afford to get our matches videoed by someone who is prepared to do it for nothing. Football has to have the same rules from the ground up and premiership teams and their supporters have no more right to a accurate decision to those of us in the Ryman Premier. It is just as painful to watch and accept and financially is of no less importance, if one level of the game has it then we all have it and those at the top with the money can pay for it.

One thing I would say is that its about time that assistant officials took more of a active part in games, I have lost count of how many just turn up to do throw ins and offside's?

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Football has to have the same rules from the ground up and premiership teams and their supporters have no more right to a accurate decision to those of us in the Ryman Premier. It is just as painful to watch and accept and financially is of no less importance, if one level of the game has it then we all have it and those at the top with the money can pay for it.

Trouble is I see a big problem with that line of argument.

Since some of the lower-down motorsports don't have the financial clout to invest in consistent officiating in the way that Formula One does, should Formula One keep itself down at the lowest common denominator to make sure it's the same for all motorsports?

Or in general terms across life, if some can't have it, why should anybody? There can sometimes be a desire to maintain the status quo, and use "some can't address the injustices of the status quo, so nobody should be allowed to" as an argument to justify maintaining it, and that's the underlying philosophy that it reminds me of.

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I think that goal line technology could be installed at most levels fairly cheaply, but the idea of these multi angle replays is not feasible, in fact my club are struggling to afford to get our matches videoed by someone who is prepared to do it for nothing. Football has to have the same rules from the ground up and premiership teams and their supporters have no more right to a accurate decision to those of us in the Ryman Premier. It is just as painful to watch and accept and financially is of no less importance, if one level of the game has it then we all have it and those at the top with the money can pay for it.

i am just talking about goal line technology..my scheme does not require multi angle replay video..one laptop and grid of infa red across the goal line that detects the ball only crossing the line its all very simple.

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This discussion also reminds me of the rules on retaliation. Why is retaliation an automatic sending off even if the retaliation is only one-tenth as bad as the initial offence, which at worst gets a yellow?

I saw one argument (from a high-up official, but can't remember who) which went like this. "In life, the retaliator often gets judged more harshly than the provoker, even if the provoker's action was far worse. That happens all over life. Therefore, it should be the same in football and the rules of football should reflect this." Of course, this double standard sets us up nicely for players provoking others then feigning injury to get them sent off, the football field equivalent of what recurs time and time again on school playgrounds.

Sigh...

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i am just talking about goal line technology..my scheme does not require multi angle replay video..one laptop and grid of infa red across the goal line that detects the ball only crossing the line its all very simple.

Yes we could probably do that, my argument with technology becomes an issue when clubs who cannot afford it meet clubs who can. We have all seen certain clubs use there position in the game to influance decisions.

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If all clubs can afford to have the assortment of referee and assistants that the Premiership clubs have, would a bit of extra technology be enough to break the money bank?

If the lesser clubs can't all afford to have the full set of assistants, should the top clubs denied their assortment of assistants because some of the lower clubs can't afford it?

The argument about clubs with the money going up against clubs that don't sounds like an argument with a stronger case behind it but it still doesn't seem to add up. Another point, surely if that situation did arise, the technology would or wouldn't apply to both sides, not one at the expense of the other.

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Yes we could probably do that, my argument with technology becomes an issue when clubs who cannot afford it meet clubs who can. We have all seen certain clubs use there position in the game to influance decisions.

i see you mentioned the ryman league..now i played in the old beazer homes league..which is the equivilant of the ryman or blue square conference south etc.

Decision were only ever disputed at pitch level..we didnt have tv replays etc as they do in the prem etc..so you moaned and groaned for a few minutes and just got on with it.

The standard of referees and linesmen are far superior in the higher leagues and some decision made in the non league games are laughable but thats an accpeted part of the game.

Lets face it its a diferent game lower down..technology probably wouldnt be necessary in these leagues because big season defining disputes just dont happen.

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Lets face it its a diferent game lower down..technology probably wouldnt be necessary in these leagues because big season defining disputes just dont happen.

I don't know if you are trying to be provocative but of course they do, in some cases those decisions have contributed directly to clubs going out of business. The thing about non-league football is that the sums of money involved are understandable by the guy in the street unlike premiership lunar money. A decent FA Cup run to us would mean reaching the 1st or 2nd round and could be worth @100k which is about half the annual wage bill for a club like us a dodgy decision in a early round can really hurt on a much greater scale than say it happening to Chelsea.

Oh and its not a different game that's the whole point!

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