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noggin

Politics And AGW/GW

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Especially considering that we'll be in the midst of massive cooling by then. Besides,government interest and policies in response to 'AGW' has nothing whatsoever to do with climate,funnily enough. Hasn't everyone twigged that,yet?

How many degrees is 'massive'?

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Especially considering that we'll be in the midst of massive cooling by then. Besides,government interest and policies in response to 'AGW' has nothing whatsoever to do with climate,funnily enough. Hasn't everyone twigged that,yet?

Apparently not, my friend.... :)

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Pick a number.... whatever it is will have far more dire consequences than any equivalent warming.

Pick a number? Is that what AGW scepticism has come to? Well, no, read on...

Pete T.... give it time and you will too my friend,you will too :) .

Hey folks,here's a good one!

http://www.kusi.com/weather/colemanscorner/38574742.html

Don't you think he overplays his hand a teeny weeny bit when he brings every climate scientist since the fifties into his 'hoax and scam'? The fifties? It's conspiracy theory gone truly, utterly bonkers, it's a joke :)

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Pick a number? Is that what AGW scepticism has come to? Well, no, read on...

Don't you think he overplays his hand a teeny weeny bit when he brings every climate scientist since the fifties into his 'hoax and scam'? The fifties? It's conspiracy theory gone truly, utterly bonkers, it's a joke :D

Dev you continue to stifle debate, by continuing to imply that all skeptics believe there is a conspiracy. Climate Science only has itself to blame, when the likes of Mann and Hansen continue to embroider graphs, and make sweeping statements based upon computer models which have to be adjusted 2-3 years down the line, due to the flawed data which was fed into them. Maybe if they where to hold there hands up, and just say " we got it wrong ", then perhaps more people would be prepared to listen to what they have to say. After all that's what science use to be like!

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Dev you continue to stifle debate, by continuing to imply that all skeptics believe there is a conspiracy.

Oh no you don't. It's quite clear I'm talking about the link supplied by LG. It is, IMO the conspiracy theory to end them all. I am no stifling anything, I'm putting my view.

Climate Science only has itself to blame, when the likes of Mann and Hansen continue to embroider graphs, and make sweeping statements based upon computer models which have to be adjusted 2-3 years down the line, due to the flawed data which was fed into them.

This does seem to be favourite line of yours. It's all both ad hom directed at the two scientists and untrue.

Maybe if they where to hold there hands up, and just say " we got it wrong ", then perhaps more people would be prepared to listen to what they have to say. After all that's what science use to be like!

They didn't get it wrong, they got it wrong IYO...

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Dev you continue to stifle debate, by continuing to imply that all skeptics believe there is a conspiracy. Climate Science only has itself to blame, when the likes of Mann and Hansen continue to embroider graphs, and make sweeping statements based upon computer models which have to be adjusted 2-3 years down the line, due to the flawed data which was fed into them. Maybe if they where to hold there hands up, and just say " we got it wrong ", then perhaps more people would be prepared to listen to what they have to say. After all that's what science use to be like!

I guess it's not only 'Mann and Hansen' that 'make sweeping statements' is it...At least theirs are based on something??

How's the hand, mate? :D

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There was an interesting debate on R4 yesterday about the Victorian schools knocked down to be replaced by schools made of wood and dripping with "eco-bling" in the form of self opening windows, bio mass boilers, grass roofs, etc.

They have to have the security lights on all night to get insured.

The bio mass boilers go wrong and simply don't do their job. They have to be backed up by gas boilers. My first school had town gas, manufactured 400 yards away. It wasn't pumped from Siberia via Ukraine.

The roof has slipped off its frame.

The caretaker hasn't got a masters degree in advanced electronics - and so can't fix anything.

When an independant energy consultant was brought in to compare the energy efficiency of an existing Victorian school to a new Eco school - there was little difference.

Except there is a difference. The hidden national debt masquerading as the PFI initiative means that my children will be paying through the nose to rent back the new schools from the private contractors at the cost of billions per annum.

Politicians have conned voters concerned about the environment into paying for pre-election propaganda in the form of pointless new, over complicated public buildings and other environmental fashion statements such as wind turbines.

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There was an interesting debate on R4 yesterday about the Victorian schools knocked down to be replaced by schools made of wood and dripping with "eco-bling" in the form of self opening windows, bio mass boilers, grass roofs, etc.

They have to have the security lights on all night to get insured.

The bio mass boilers go wrong and simply don't do their job. They have to be backed up by gas boilers. My first school had town gas, manufactured 400 yards away. It wasn't pumped from Siberia via Ukraine.

The roof has slipped off its frame.

The caretaker hasn't got a masters degree in advanced electronics - and so can't fix anything.

When an independant energy consultant was brought in to compare the energy efficiency of an existing Victorian school to a new Eco school - there was little difference.

Except there is a difference. The hidden national debt masquerading as the PFI initiative means that my children will be paying through the nose to rent back the new schools from the private contractors at the cost of billions per annum.

Politicians have conned voters concerned about the environment into paying for pre-election propaganda in the form of pointless new, over complicated public buildings and other environmental fashion statements such as wind turbines.

Several different points in your post.

Victorian schools. My primary school was Victoria. it was rock solid, with single pane windows. With double glazing it would be warm. It's still there, as a school.

Is it only biomass boilers that go wrong? Nope, the boiler in our house went wrong and it took the engineer several attempts to get it right. And it's only a basic model!

Gas from Russia. is that what fires a biomass boiler? Seems unlikely to me.

PFI. It's the pits - imo.

Politicians. I don't share the almost visceral mistrust most people seem to have of politicians.

Windmills. Ditto.

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I guess it's not only 'Mann and Hansen' that 'make sweeping statements' is it...At least theirs are based on something??

How's the hand, mate? :)

Based on something :D It's the shoulder Pete, not much better on Morphine so at least I'm chilled! :D

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http://conservativehome.blogs.com/centreri...limate-cha.html

We cannot afford anti-"AGW" policies.

Currently, 21% of a business electricity bill and 14% of a domestic electricity bill is in respect of anti-AGW policies.

By 2020, those percentages will rise to 55% and 18% respectively.

It is unaffordable.

Noggin, this is something I know a little about since I wrote a 120 page thesis on it at University and I can say that this is complete rubbish.

"According to official figures, climate change policies already account for 21% of the average business electricity bill – this is especially damaging for heavy energy users including chemicals, cement and steel. But by 2020, the burden of green policies is expected to rise to 55% of the average business electricity bill"

Did you know that Norway produces/extracts it's Oil and generates power from it whilst producing 47% less CO2..?

do you know how much the extra cost is ?

Let me enlighten you, it would add about 2p to the cost of a litre of fuel to your car. Would you notice this ?, probably not since Mr Brown has put up taxes by a country mile and supply and demand is flucuating rapidly.

Would you notice a 20% increase in your Holiday flight ? because if we paid that it would reduce CO2 per an airflight mile by around 30%.

Did you know that producer prices increased by 25% last year ? and that surprisingly enough it wasn't this that killed our economy, we were actually quite able to live with it.

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It's all both ad hom directed at the two scientists and untrue.

..

So, what do you thnk about what Dr John Theon said about James Hanson?

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So, what do you thnk about what Dr John Theon said about James Hanson?

Firstly I note it's, rightly, Dr John Theon but you call Dr James Hansen plain James. Oh well...

What do I think? I think Dr Theon retired years ago. I think he wrote something picked up on by Marc Morano who works, tirelessly, for and to promote the views of Senator James Inhofe. So, it's politics. It has nowt to do with science and everything about Senator Inhofe's political agenda.

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he retired in 1994?

so why does he claim to know Hansen wasn't muzzled in 2006 (or whatever the year was)?

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http://women.timesonline.co.uk/tol/life_an...icle5627634.ece

Oh, this is evil and wicked. To use abortion as a way to fight global warming. This is about as evil as it gets. Contraception...yes, I agree wholeheartedly with contraception. But abortion.........the killing of defenceless and innocent unborn babies, no, I feel sick.

The extremes of policy have been reached. It reminds me of a time about 65/70 years ago.

Where is the humanity?

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I don't think he is suggesting a 'two child' policy to be law, but relying on people to make more informed decisions over becoming parents etc. Which can't be a bad thing regardless of the environment...

It would be just as evil to introduce an infertility drug into the water supply as a way to curb population, at least the former gives people the option.

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Noggin,

(1) Though an advisor (amongst many), Porritt is not the government

(2) I think he is talking as much about general environment issues as he is about climate change (though that is certainly part of it)

(3) Even Porritt is not suggesting anything like compulsory terminations. I think he is just saying that within the framework that is currently widely accepted - i.e. that abortion is (depressingly) considered by many as a form of post-facto contraception - then people should be strongly encouraged to limit their family size. So it is really a discussion about family size in the environment context, not some new suggestion as to how to achieve it.

(4) I, too, find - have always found - abortion an extremely difficult issue, morally-speaking. However, as a man I am not allowed to suggest such a thing without being howled down: "a woman's right to choose" is the wholly accepted mantra. I am, to be honest, very confused about it (abortion in general, I mean), I am pulled in both directions. But normally it is impossible for a male to suggest that the morality of it is even an issue worth discussing without being labelled a misogynist reactionary. I am glad to hear a woman prepared to express her misgivings about it.

Ossie

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http://women.timesonline.co.uk/tol/life_an...icle5627634.ece

Oh, this is evil and wicked. To use abortion as a way to fight global warming. This is about as evil as it gets. Contraception...yes, I agree wholeheartedly with contraception. But abortion.........the killing of defenceless and innocent unborn babies, no, I feel sick.

The extremes of policy have been reached. It reminds me of a time about 65/70 years ago.

Where is the humanity?

Noggin, I'm sorry, but I think to call your post (especially the '65/70 years ago' bit) an over reaction would be an under reaction...

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Noggin, I'm sorry, but I think to call your post (especially the '65/70 years ago' bit) an over reaction would be an under reaction...

An over reaction? So, you approve of Porritt's suggestion, do you?

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An over reaction? So, you approve of Porritt's suggestion, do you?

I do. I've read what he said. I'm sorry, imo it's as far removed from what you alluded it was with your '65/70 years ago' not so subtle hint as it's possible to get.

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An over reaction? So, you approve of Porritt's suggestion, do you?

The guy is only spouting off - they'll do anything to draw attention to their defunct 'cause'. Don't take it seriously, Nog.

Ossie,how you doing,my friend? OT but I do hope you're enjoying the snow down your neck of the woods. Y'know,that strange fluffy white stuff that the AGW types assured us we'd never see the likes of again as a manifestation of the 'even larger teapot' which is as a result of you-know-what,and which a lot of soft-headed folk got drawn into presumably as a reaction to the brain-numbing sodium flouride which is tipped into the water supply. LG said it would be back this year and,y'know what,I was dead right - just like I am about the whole AGW scam. Just wait until next winter...

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http://women.timesonline.co.uk/tol/life_an...icle5627634.ece

Oh, this is evil and wicked. To use abortion as a way to fight global warming. This is about as evil as it gets. Contraception...yes, I agree wholeheartedly with contraception. But abortion.........the killing of defenceless and innocent unborn babies, no, I feel sick.

The extremes of policy have been reached. It reminds me of a time about 65/70 years ago.

Where is the humanity?

Abortion, what abortion?? And where's the humanity in bringing millions of little children into the world, only to watch them die due to lack of food, water and sanitation :( !

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Abortion, what abortion??

Um,this one.

"Jonathon Porritt, who chairs the government's Sustainable Development Commission, says curbing population growth through contraception and abortion must be at the heart of policies to fight global warming. He says political leaders and green campaigners should stop dodging the issue of environmental harm caused by an expanding population".

And the reason is to fight 'global warming',not to spare them a life of disease and misery due to lack of food,water and sanitation.

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Um,this one.

"Jonathon Porritt, who chairs the government's Sustainable Development Commission, says curbing population growth through contraception and abortion must be at the heart of policies to fight global warming. He says political leaders and green campaigners should stop dodging the issue of environmental harm caused by an expanding population".

And the reason is to fight 'global warming',not to spare them a life of disease and misery due to lack of food,water and sanitation.

Is he not conflating two different things here; AGW and overpopulation? They may be linked, but they are not the same thing.

Abortion vs Climate Change seems a pretty sick notion to me...A political faux pas? :)

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