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noggin

Recent and ongoing cold and snow records

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My old Gran used to say ''it's too cold for snow'' and sure enough (back then) as another Atlantic system bearing moisture arrived we'd get a mountain of frontal snow.....and the temps went up accordingly. This was when we used to have winters where a foot of snow was not a freak event. Novel displacement of air masses leading to novel weather extremes will always lay at the door of AGW.....naturally.

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Too cold for snow then..........

It's unusually cold in my fridge this year. Just thought you should all know.

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Too cold for snow then..........

Must be different in England. In Canada it will snow when it is extremely cold.

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It's unusually cold in my fridge this year. Just thought you should all know.

so is it snow free?

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With regard to your question.....no. :whistling:

Nor is it for you to dictate what can and cannot be posted. If a moderator wants the thread closed then so be it, but as far as I am concerned, it is a useful record of such events. :mellow:

If you find it tiresome, then don't read it. :D

You know as well as I do that you created this thread during the eternal AGW debate. You were saying "why have there been so many cold records broken this year" to try (to absolutely no avail) to give evidence against AGW.

Snow is no indication of temperature. Therefore posting snow records gives no indication of GW either way. Although the title does not say that you are trying to do this, we all know the circumstances of its creation and so please don't say later on "look at my snow and cold database" to the AGW pros as only the cold supports your argument in the AGW discussion.

If you have changed your gambit to posting snow and cold records for the sheer fun then that is fine by me. Only if so, it shouldn't be in the "Climate change analysis" section, should it?

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Seems like a general weather section topic for sure Yeti.

Increased snowfall for many shows a change in the local climate. Rapid fluctuations in local climate are not a 'normal' thing and would need some explaining. The general AGW blurb seems to cover these instances well and so I'd stay with it for my reasoning as to why we are a planet full of extreme local climate variations (from the continued droughts in areas to excessive rains in others to increased snowfall [like the Antarctic peninsula] to increased temps).

We are even seeing regional variations in the seasons [record early start to the cherry blossoming in Japan] ,surely this isn't an indication of cold setting in?

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You know as well as I do that you created this thread during the eternal AGW debate. You were saying "why have there been so many cold records broken this year" to try (to absolutely no avail) to give evidence against AGW.

Snow is no indication of temperature. Therefore posting snow records gives no indication of GW either way. Although the title does not say that you are trying to do this, we all know the circumstances of its creation and so please don't say later on "look at my snow and cold database" to the AGW pros as only the cold supports your argument in the AGW discussion.

If you have changed your gambit to posting snow and cold records for the sheer fun then that is fine by me. Only if so, it shouldn't be in the "Climate change analysis" section, should it?

Yes, Yeti, I did create this thread during one of the many AGW debates.

If you have an issue with it being in this section, then please refer the matter to the moderator who moved it here.

....and please do not dictate to me what I can or cannot say in the future.

Seems like a general weather section topic for sure Yeti.

As I said to Yeti.....take it up with the moderator who moved it here.

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We are even seeing regional variations in the seasons [record early start to the cherry blossoming in Japan] ,surely this isn't an indication of cold setting in?

Oh of course, there are at least as many examples of warmth but we don't look at those on here :doh:

OK will ask a mod to move this thread Noggin, it's in the wrong place.

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Blimey - why can't everyone just get on? I mean look at me...everyone's friend.

Moving this to general weather to save it from a fate worse than death.

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Blimey - why can't everyone just get on? I mean look at me...everyone's friend.

Moving this to general weather to save it from a fate worse than death.

Thank you... and sorry for being rude :doh:

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Seems like a general weather section topic for sure Yeti.

Increased snowfall for many shows a change in the local climate. Rapid fluctuations in local climate are not a 'normal' thing and would need some explaining. The general AGW blurb seems to cover these instances well and so I'd stay with it for my reasoning as to why we are a planet full of extreme local climate variations (from the continued droughts in areas to excessive rains in others to increased snowfall [like the Antarctic peninsula] to increased temps).

We are even seeing regional variations in the seasons [record early start to the cherry blossoming in Japan] ,surely this isn't an indication of cold setting in?

Are these reporsts really all unusual events though?Is it not just possible that records and reports are just more accurate thesedays and the fact they are dating back further as the years pass by is not just starting to represent an average?

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I just wanted to clarify something that seems to have become a sub-theme of this debate.

Snowfall records in parts of eastern Canada have certainly taken a tumble this winter. Bathurst NB (in the northern part of New Brunswick) has seen its heaviest seasonal total on record, going back to 1872, and this amounts to almost 5 metres (about twice normal). Much of this is still on the ground. Other parts of southern Quebec, eastern and central Ontario, and some adjacent parts of upstate NY and northern VT-NH-ME have shared in this snowfall bonanza.

It does not really provide strong evidence for either side of this debate, in my opinion.

The notion that it is some offshoot of warming, a more energized storm track, is not really very sound because the storm track has remained locked into one location, and that's the unusual factor that has led to this heavy snowfall. Usually in eastern North America, there are spells of mild and cold weather, storm tracks alternating from offshore to well north of the US-Canada border, and everywhere in between. This is why the region is famous for its highly variable climate, especially in winter.

This year, the pattern has remained very static, with the lows coming across the Ohio valley and lower Great Lakes into central New Brunswick. The pattern is in fact so static, that these record snowfall amounts have piled up. Very mild or very cold winters in the past failed to produce snowfall totals like these. Most of the heavy snowfall winters have been near or just below normal in temperature.

I attribute this rather unusual pattern to the global la Nina event, combined with a stronger than average arctic high over Greenland and the central Canadian arctic. There was a similar pattern in the winter of 1970-71, and similar results, although those records have now been broken in some locations (others are hanging on by a thread with a few more weeks left in the potential snowfall season).

The amount of snow still sitting on the ground from around Quebec City east to northern New Brunswick is quite staggering and I imagine there will be some very serious flooding in some areas. The Saint John River which rises in northern Maine and flows through northwest NB before turning south, is likely to go well over its banks in two or three weeks from now, when the current slow melt accelerates. The heavy snow that was on the ground north and northwest of Toronto has largely melted now and this led to some severe flooding on the Nottawasaga River which flows north into Georgian Bay, about a week ago now.

The unusually cold air over the central arctic shows no signs of relenting and keeps on sending pulses south into Manitoba and northern Ontario, but overall the pattern seems to be lifting slowly towards a more normal spring situation.

I don't see any great evidence of some massive breakdown in the warming episode here, in fact, the cold arctic winter may be some kind of feedback from the unusual melt and subsequent snowfall anomalies in the western arctic. But since I have always thought of the warming as a largely natural variation, this change does not surprise me greatly. I imagine there will be warming episodes to come, but the main interest for many of us will be to monitor solar activity. Personally, I don't think the much vaunted solar minimum is already upon us, I expect a fairly average solar cycle to start up soon and peak around 2015-2018, so a much longer interval than normal, but this may be the last of the recent long period of active cycles, and that expected solar minimum could be in the works for years beyond 2020. It would be ironic if we were then celebrating a clean atmosphere, because that would just accelerate the cooling effects of such a period.

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Snow this morning in north Devon: a beautiful sight and littly settled on the ground giving a beatiful wintry scene.

Why oh why didn't this happen in winter when so much of the rest of the northern Hemisphere had such cold conditions?!

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Guest mycroft

Good Afternoon

Just to add another record broken. Parts of the south west of England had their coldest April night on record down to -4 in some places

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TWS, apparently Penzance had its coldest April night ever: do you know the minimum recorded and the date records were first kept please?

Stop Press! Having returned from holiday in Luxor my mother, on the authority of a tour guide, advises that Luxor had its hottest March in 30 years! [not sure what that proves but then that goes for most of the posts in this thread...]

regards

ACB

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