Don't idle your car!

[PersianPaladin]

This is a good read and I hope all of you who drive appreciate these facts: -

http://www.thehcf.org/antiidlingprimer.html

[Pennine Ten Foot Drifts]

Absolutely. It always astonishes me in so many situations when I see cars sat with the engine running. I think it's the usual culprit - individual thoughtless lazy ignorance, but then that's nothing new !

In traffic jams, (and my daily commute includes the M62 around Leeds), it is more difficult, because invariably just when you decide you haven't moved for long enough and turn the engine off the traffic starts to move !

[Thundery wintry showers]

I agree 100% with this. Sitting idling when not on a journey is a waste of petrol etc, and it has no economic, social or recreational value whatsoever, it's something that we can and should cut out as a means of reducing emissions and saving money.

I think what PTFD is referring to might be categorised under that article as "involuntary idling" which in some cases is unavoidable, or at least difficult to do anything about without risking holding up traffic. I wouldn't lump that together with the voluntary idling which is nearly always avoidable.

In my experience buses and coaches (especially coaches) are also bad for this, sitting idling for up to half an hour while passengers are just starting to get on. It used to annoy me when I'd see the school buses at school idling for a good 20 minutes starting at 3:50pm, when they never left before 4:10pm.

[Pennine Ten Foot Drifts]

TWS, I think it's just another symptom of the mindless consumption seen all around every day, (vehicles idling, lights left on, central heating on permanently, everything left on standby, TVs on in the background with no-one actually watching, computers left on all day etc etc etc). People have become used to unrealistically cheap and plentiful energy/fuel supplies, which has allowed them to become totally cavalier about usage. I for one am glad that this is now coming to an end because the one way to focus people's minds on the ideas of conservation and reduced usage is when it starts getting painful (i.e. expensive). Roll on £2 a litre petrol and doubled energy bills I say, maybe then people will start to think about the TRUE costs of their thoughtless energy gluttony.

[full_frontal_occlusion]

Many years ago (at least 15) when on business in Germany, a pedestrian became very irate with me because I let my car engine idle for more than 30 seconds whilst stopped at a set of traffic lights. I later found out that (unkowingly) it was a traffic offence. Indeed in some German cities, the traffic lights at important intersections have an additional light called umweltampel (environment lamp) to tell drivers when to turn their engines off.

ffO.

[pottyprof]

In my experience buses and coaches (especially coaches) are also bad for this, sitting idling for up to half an hour while passengers are just starting to get on. It used to annoy me when I'd see the school buses at school idling for a good 20 minutes starting at 3:50pm, when they never left before 4:10pm.

Hi Ian.. I know that both First and Stagecoach have a "switch off" policy within the companies and also the various transport executives have things in place within interchanges to implement this.

The problem lies with a lack of heating when the engine is off. Buses are as good at retaining heat as a sieve is at holding water. Do you like sitting on a freezing cold bus for say 20 mins? I know I don't and you can imagine having 8 hours of it. If the engine is turned off for 5 mins, it can take as long as an hour to get some sort of reasonable temperature back. Bus drivers are exempt from office temperature laws for obvious reasons but is it fair for them to sit in temperatures as low as it is outside? It is part and parcel of the job but having had the experience of loosing sensation on the fingers due to the cold (while driving deckers mainly), I'd say it was more a case of health and safety that the engines do run while idle.

What you are saying is just a standard comment from anyone who works in an office environment but not one that can be easily addressed in practice.

[Greyowl]

Roll on £2 a litre petrol and doubled energy bills I say, maybe then people will start to think about the TRUE costs of their thoughtless energy gluttony.

I agree with you about peoples lack of energy sense usage. As for £2 a litre they would not only cause a pain to our income but also severe hardship not just to me but a lot of others in the same situation. Our heating is oil so its affected by the the price. We don't have buses so have to use a car. I am disabled so need a car. My wife is also Ill and only able to work part time, to get there she needs a car.

[Spongebob]

MMmm interesting debate however, it takes around 10minutes to put back into a battery what you take out at startup, plus at this time of year with lights, heated front and rear screens, heaters fans it is a significant drain on battery power and repeated stop starts have a significant effect on battery levels. But that said a good trip of say 30 minutes or more in a modern car does recharge most batteries to a near normal capacity.

The starting from cold and driving off depends how you view maintenance costs, even with modern synthetic oils a turbocharged car will benefit greatly from a short idle period before pulling off and you can significantly extend the life of the turbo by idling for some 2 or so minutes before shutting off the engine as this allows the oil to cool the bearings around the turbo.

KjF

[Bobby]

Let them do it I say, the quicker we run down the fossil fuels the shorter the pain will be over with. No need to drag it on. Someone else will use the petrol they save anyway.

[PersianPaladin]

Let them do it I say, the quicker we run down the fossil fuels the shorter the pain will be over with. No need to drag it on. Someone else will use the petrol they save anyway.

Lol don't be absurd.

[davehsug]

But I'd freeze when I sit in the car at work eating me dinner!

[multi cellular thunderstorm]

Lorries do it a lot at work.

They come for deliveries and collections where I work and when they're done they pull up and sit for around an hour with the engine running. I've noticed this twice in the last week. I guess they do it for the warmth but an extra layer of clothing would do the trick.

But I'd freeze when I sit in the car at work eating me dinner!

I eat my dinner in my car and it's usually about 5°C or less inside. Theres a warm canteen but I just like to get out into my own space for a bit

I just wear my coat, I would never think of having the engine running, not just for the environment but for my pocket. Bit of a waste of petrol.

[PersianPaladin]

But I'd freeze when I sit in the car at work eating me dinner!

Don't eat dinner in your car then (or bring a sheep-skin coat with you or something).

[Chris Knight]

As an aside, when did we last have a power-cut (electricity), apart from transmission lines being down?

In order for this excellent record, there must have been an excess of electricity production over consumption.

Where did the excess production go? Into pumping water back to reservoirs for hydroelectric power plants, maybe? Into hydrogen production by electrolysis perhaps, to power fuel cells and hydrogen powered engines? Or was it just lost as heat and useless emissions?