Have we actually Forgotten what cold is

[CRACKPOT]

A simple way of describing them was brutal.

The 1981 winter also sticks in my mind because at that time my family didn't have central heating and I remember going to bed wearing my coat with a hot water bottle. I also remember myself and my brothers building an igloo and because the snow was so deep and compacted using a spade we cut out cubes of snow and made an igloo which must of been around 5ft high!.

Hi TEiTs,

I remember these winters with more clarity - I was a bit older - 12 at that time - so am of the same opinion about their severity. I used to go to bed in my upstairs flat - not able to look out of the window because of a 1/4 inch of ice on the INSIDE of the window. I used to also build these huge igloos from our schoolboys templates - lol - until one day a boy in a local village 3 miles away died when one collapsed on him and it suffocated him. I do remember going back out and even though I promised my mum - I built another with my sister - who was your age - 8!

Those were the days.

JK

[moogyboobles]

Yeah I didn't get the fuss about it being cold last week, I didn't even get my scarf and gloves on and I don't drive so have to walk everywhere.

Last time I remember being cold and having decent snow was when I was 12 so 91 I think.

78-79 were very severe in there cold ,snow and how long they lasted.80-81 were bad and 87 was severe but not a long spell altho day time records were broke and snow depths were good.For me 78-79 were the best. :lol:

Year I was born, my Mum often tells me how I was carried to the car from hospital and the snow was knee deep.

Edited January 6, 2008 by moogyboobles

[Upgrade]

i used to build igloos with my sister in the 80s winters too! also the point made about strange snow formations is spot on, we used to get weird shaped drifts as well and even morphed some of them into snowmen, or mined them for snowman/igloo material! at school we made ice "skid tracks" many winters running , in the playground (i'm sure some health and safety killjoy would have put salt down if this happened today ) and ice on the lake opposite the school was frozen to depths of aeound 6 inches in some years. we were forbidden from walking on it but of course we did, testing it by throwing large bricks on as hard as we could first - they would bounce off with a weird noise and we knew it was safe to walk.................happy days. :lol: there was a whole evil sport of hard packed snowball throwing too - lethal stingers, some of them!

Edited January 6, 2008 by jimmyay

[jemtom]

Yes I very much think we have PIT. Having grown up down here in the sub-tropics, living in the Yeovil area in the early 80's taught me just how cold things can get in this country.

We'd bought a new 2 up 2 down house, with the 3 bar electric fire in the living room being the only heating the property had. Despite leaving the doors open all evening upstair to allow the bedroom and bathroom to warm, we would regularly wake up with thick ice inside the window (which faced north).

Also on one occasion I remember waking at around 6am, lifting my glass of water to my mouth and nothing happened. Then all of a sudden in the dark frigid room the ice that had formed on the surface gave way and I ended up soaking myself and half the bed in freezing water - you can imagine that went down well with the new wife!

Nowadays we wouldn't entertain living like that. It was just the done thing back then and I remember at the time my inlaws had no heating whatsoever, making us rather soft with our 3 bar electric fire and me the butt of a few Cornish softie jokes.

One thing of note regarding living this way, we all seemed to suffer from far fewer colds and viral infections during the winter months - did anyone else notice that?

[Lettucing Gutted]

Noticed the cold spell thread was going rather well when I got back this morning and I thought well it's ended. Yet people think it's cold. Got to admit myself I thought today was cold certainly compared to some days last Jan. Mainly the reason why I thought was cold was the strong breeze but I then realised I was being rather soft "nesh" as we would say round here. Got home and Max temp was 1C to 1.5C above what we normally get for Jasn and the evening temp going to likewise unless we lose the wind. I spent part of the walk looking for the first signs of spring and they were there. Tree buds well swollen up and green but further back than last year no doubt due to mid December.

Overall I think we've forgotten what cold is. Dec inversion was impressive but comp;aired to some DEcs in the past it was a heatwave.

One of the problems is that people have got used to having temps in the house between 70F and 80F when you used to be lucky to get much above 60. So when they step outside into a mild Jan morning at 7C they do a Carol Kirkwood and say it's freezing.

Talking the in the Pub news year day about 79 when we had the Windows frozen up outside and in and Snow Blowing through the secondary glazing. Every House had tons of Icicles hanging of them as did street lights drainpipes now you're lucky if you see one. Last time there was a good display probably was 87. Sadly it looks like we're all getting soft and doubt possibly keep getting softer until the fuel runs out.

Excellent post this is PIT. Sorry I am late replying. I also find it worrying that people like Carol Kirkwood say temperatures of 7C in winter are freezing. If the warming trend continues people in Britain will be calling temperatures below 15C in winter cold and people in Britain will be calling temperatures below 30C in summer cold. People were calling August 2006's 16.1C C.E.T cold and yet compared to the cold augusts of the 1920s it was a heatwave.

Edited January 6, 2008 by Craig Evans

[Cymru]

Yes I very much think we have PIT. Having grown up down here in the sub-tropics, living in the Yeovil area in the early 80's taught me just how cold things can get in this country.

We'd bought a new 2 up 2 down house, with the 3 bar electric fire in the living room being the only heating the property had. Despite leaving the doors open all evening upstair to allow the bedroom and bathroom to warm, we would regularly wake up with thick ice inside the window (which faced north).

Also on one occasion I remember waking at around 6am, lifting my glass of water to my mouth and nothing happened. Then all of a sudden in the dark frigid room the ice that had formed on the surface gave way and I ended up soaking myself and half the bed in freezing water - you can imagine that went down well with the new wife!

Nowadays we wouldn't entertain living like that. It was just the done thing back then and I remember at the time my inlaws had no heating whatsoever, making us rather soft with our 3 bar electric fire and me the butt of a few Cornish softie jokes.

One thing of note regarding living this way, we all seemed to suffer from far fewer colds and viral infections during the winter months - did anyone else notice that?

You're house sounds like mine (well, my parents' house) used to be. We had two bar electric fires, no central heating then, the oven was left on in the kitchen in order to warm it up and we would pile coats on the beds to keep warm. This is not going back to Victorian days but is in the 60s. No, we didn't get so many colds or viral infections in those days either. I think people have become so used to central heating that when they go out now they really feel cold. When I was a kid it was sometimes warmer outside than inside!

[Thundery wintry showers]

I personally think some of this subjectivity on cold stems from the dumbing down of the BBC national forecasts and the requirement for forecasters to make a forecast sound 'positive' to keep the masses happy, where 'positive' is defined as "mild, dry and sunny" in winter, and "dry, warm and sunny" in summer (phrased in order of relative importance). Hence "at least it will be mild", for example. So it will be cold at 7C but at least benign factors X, Y and Z exist.

I know sometimes I make myself look very foolish on here going on about E,lys and even though I take my forecasting seriously I have made myself a laughing stock and lost any credibility I may of had. However living in Peterborough all my life I have seen what an E,ly can bring to my location and even as a child I quickly learn't that snowfall always seemed to come from the same direction and it was actually looking at the direction that the clouds were moving as a guide if snow was on its way.

It's ironic that on the Tyne & Wear coast, northerlies are generally more reliable than easterlies, but the snowiest winter I've lived through there (1993/94) and the severest spell (February 1991) both featured snowfalls mainly from an easterly source. Of course, down south it's no contest, with high exposure to continental air and high shelter from arctic airmasses. 3 January 2008 was extremely unusual in its distribution of snow from an easterly source, bringing nothing to many traditionally favoured areas, and a dumping to areas that normally rely exclusively on northerlies and north-westerlies.

I recall the Met Office summary for October 1998 being 'cold' despite the temperature being close to average, and I have to admit to finding myself doing the same thing, sometimes calling slightly below average 'cold'- and Trevor Harley does it as well. It's an unfortunate consequence of the baseline moving over a period of time.

[jemtom]

Thursday is the coldest day I can ever remember in Devon. Period.

It is quite amazing how people's memories play tricks, especially old ladies I notice. I was behind one in a queue and she was saying how Christmas came suddenly upon her because the autumn had been so mild. Actually it wasn't. That's just a few weeks. Imagine therefore how much fun there is to be had when you get the odd person on here going on about pools panels and deep snowdrifts. Yes I remember them. But that's because they were remarkable. There were also many many mild zonal days in winters past that we forget because they were mundane. Indeed the first half of the 1970's was dreadful for winter cold.

I'm sure you were more than happy to put the old dear right though LN....

A "live real time arguement" must have made a welcome change from all your virtual ones on NW. Morover of course you were safe in the knowledge that if she'd gotten a bit lairy (like Ian Brown can do on here) you could have taken her down one on one - probably....

Only a bit of fun I might add.

Edited January 6, 2008 by jemtom

[Snowly does it]

From my memory of Jan 1987 and walking to school because the buses were out (to find it was closed and then walking home) and from childhood memories of the late 70s and early 80s, I will say this to anyone of the late 80s era onwards who wonder about 'real' cold....

Its the sort of cold where you'll never get comfortable if you are out in it - for all the fun of making snowmen and hiding from the boys and their snowballs, your cheeks hurt, thats the first thing you notice - not the pinch of the cheeks I use now as a rough snow-o-meter, but painful cheeks from biting icy cold. The wet British air makes the cold soak into every fibre of your body, makes your young joints ache like you'd skipped childhood and jumped straight to rheumatic old age. The fluid in your eyes feels like it will freeze and the wind blowing at you stings like a swarm of bees, you have to close your eyes and your nose won't stop running. Everything hurts, everything is chapped and sore, but its -5 in the daytime, there's an Easterly gale howling and your snowman is huge and will be there in 2 weeks time. Life is wonderful, winter is cold and fires and hugs from your family are warm and cosy, you don't just shut out the night when the curtains are drawn, you shut out Jack Frost, he can get no closer than the insides of your single-glazed panes. Bed is a good place to be, surrounded by Teddy Bears and a hot water bottle with sheet, 2 blankets and a candlewick bedspread still your ears are cold but you can snuggle in to your dream castle with all the Bears of the Round Table to protect you and keep you safe and warm.

That life might never be that way again makes me sadder than I could possibly say.

[West is Best]

That life might never be that way again makes me sadder than I could possibly say.

It'll come back. It's all cyclical.They had ludicrously warm winters in Henry VIII's reign. It's only a matter of time before serious cold returns. Indeed, the US is currently in the grip of a very severe winter.

Memories playing tricks. Over to Mr data he'll find a lot more colder ones.

Wind chill. It was shockingly cold on Thursday. Never been so damned cold in this country for years.

[Thundery wintry showers]

I agree in a sense, in that it's practically certain that the Earth will get colder at some point in the future. The question is, though, will it happen in any of our lifetimes? With warming of anthropogenic origin almost certainly adding increasing amounts to the baseline, it's looking unlikely. It will probably take thousands of years for the anthropogenic influences to be extracted from the climate system.

At a crude level, if anthropogenic influences cause a warming of 3C, it will require natural factors to combine to produce at least a 3C cooling to counter the effects of anthropogenically driven global warming.

Wind chill is not real temperature- e.g. in coastal north-east England, it's often the case that after a cold bright frosty interlude with a temperature of -1C, it feels colder when the wind picks up off the North Sea, yet the air temperature rises to 4C.

Edited January 6, 2008 by Thundery wintry showers

[Snowly does it]

It'll come back. It's all cyclical.They had ludicrously warm winters in Henry VIII's reign. It's only a matter of time before serious cold returns. Indeed, the US is currently in the grip of a very severe winter.

Maybe it will, but the chance it won't is enough to fill me with regret.

[Paul Sherman]

I have been doing the Glove tests as well. They have only been on once this Winter and that was about the 21st December, when the temps were quite cold.

In the late 70's I remember building a fantastic Igloo when we lived in Chelmsford, and again in the 87 January week of Blizzards. But then I was more into sledging as I was 15 then. Some of the winters in the 80's were tough on being at School, Sooooo many times I could not do my buttons up on my school shirt after being out in "Double Games" in thick Snow and Ice, they made us go out without Gloves on. We were harder in those days, the schools were hardly ever closed, only when the Snow got above about 5 feet in drifts were we not able to get out of the front door. Yes this was the way the Uk used to be The younger members must be reading on with shock!!

Paul Sherman

[Snowyowl9]

People were calling August 2006's 16.1C C.E.T cold and yet compared to the cold augusts of the 1920s it was a heatwave.

August this year was cooler though at 15.4c, 2006`s was average after the record breaking hot July.

And what about July this year at 15.2c the same as 1993.

Since 1966 say there has only been 3 July`s colder 1978 at 14.8c, 1980 and 1988 both at 14.7c

That actually makes it the 4th coolest July I`ve lived through after last years hottest.

[❄️❄️❄️❄️❄️❄️❄️❄️❄️]

Wow. And i dont think i remeber a day when the snow was properly on the ground for more than a day.

[The PIT]

Well sadly these days you're lucky if lasts the night without melting mostly away. Thast another annoying trend thats popped up in the last few years. Air temps below zero it Snows and then melts on the ground. Only reasons I can think of are pollution lowering the freezing point and relative warm ground temps.

[SP1986]

To be fair cold is noticeable to me, but daisies growing in January, and surviving right now is slightly odd.

[SnowBear]

....We were harder in those days, the schools were hardly ever closed, only when the Snow got above about 5 feet in drifts were we not able to get out of the front door. Yes this was the way the Uk used to be :wacko: The younger members must be reading on with shock!!

Paul Sherman

lol and we would wish and wish and pray and pray for that darn school boiler to pack up. Or so much snow hardly any of the teachers could get into school, and it just seemed despite us having those 5' snow drifts, icicles from gutter to floor, solid ice down the roads that you could slid along for a good 30-40'..those teachers still somehow made it to school so there was just enough not to close the school! I am sure they knew other ways to travel that us mortals dont know about lol

Edited January 6, 2008 by SnowBear

[PersianPaladin]

I have been doing the Glove tests as well. They have only been on once this Winter and that was about the 21st December, when the temps were quite cold.

In the late 70's I remember building a fantastic Igloo when we lived in Chelmsford, and again in the 87 January week of Blizzards. But then I was more into sledging as I was 15 then. Some of the winters in the 80's were tough on being at School, Sooooo many times I could not do my buttons up on my school shirt after being out in "Double Games" in thick Snow and Ice, they made us go out without Gloves on. We were harder in those days, the schools were hardly ever closed, only when the Snow got above about 5 feet in drifts were we not able to get out of the front door. Yes this was the way the Uk used to be :wacko: The younger members must be reading on with shock!!

Paul Sherman

The furtherst back I can remember was Feb 1991....although we had 50cm of level snow where I lived at the time...I don't remember not being able to get out of the front door.

I do remember sledging down the main road though...hardly any cars could get up it so it was just full of kids.

Edited January 6, 2008 by PersianPaladin

[SnowBear]

I will also add, it always seemed to be the worst teachers that made it through too which made it doubly worse! lol

[Rollo]

I can go back to 1947- just and living in Sunderland close to the coast when I think back to that winter there was snow right down to the beach on several occasions. I recall after 1 blizzard which stopped around midday the total lack of cars on the road ourside our house-only one as I remember and we made a slide in one of rhe tracks and had a whale of a time seeing how far we could slide and by evening let me tell you it was quite a distance.

[sconetone]

Feb 91 coldspell was a cracker PP, proper cold & snow

Forecasts from the time

ahh memories :wacko:

Love the windchill

Edited January 6, 2008 by sconetone

[nkaol2001]

Noticed the cold spell thread was going rather well when I got back this morning and I thought well it's ended. Yet people think it's cold. Got to admit myself I thought today was cold certainly compared to some days last Jan. Mainly the reason why I thought was cold was the strong breeze but I then realised I was being rather soft "nesh" as we would say round here. Got home and Max temp was 1C to 1.5C above what we normally get for Jasn and the evening temp going to likewise unless we lose the wind. I spent part of the walk looking for the first signs of spring and they were there. Tree buds well swollen up and green but further back than last year no doubt due to mid December.

Overall I think we've forgotten what cold is. Dec inversion was impressive but comp;aired to some DEcs in the past it was a heatwave.

One of the problems is that people have got used to having temps in the house between 70F and 80F when you used to be lucky to get much above 60. So when they step outside into a mild Jan morning at 7C they do a Carol Kirkwood and say it's freezing.

Talking the in the Pub news year day about 79 when we had the Windows frozen up outside and in and Snow Blowing through the secondary glazing. Every House had tons of Icicles hanging of them as did street lights drainpipes now you're lucky if you see one. Last time there was a good display probably was 87. Sadly it looks like we're all getting soft and doubt possibly keep getting softer until the fuel runs out.

Sorry, but I have to disagree with you! Last Dec( just gone), was the coldest over most of England & Wales since 1981. Here in Manchester, there were 12 days of constantly below normal temps, up to the 22nd. Hardly normal, & by the way, the muppet on here said Dec. would be dry, sunny & mild on his monthly f/cast, Chris, somebody or other....... It wasnt dry, 5" + of rain in Manchester, sunshine was at a premium only about 50 hours, & only 1 day reached double figures & that was only a miserable 10C. If our climate was really getting milder than every day would see temps of 7C+, with at least 10 days into double figures. It's my opinion that our wretched climate is getting worse & worse.....ie. more rain, wind & dullness every year.

What would be wrong with a decent high over Biscay, English Channel & N.France of 1050+ millibars lasting for 3 months or so. Some people might not like it, but the death rate for hypothermia would be neglible, & I bet the NHS would be in heaven. As it is, we have so many viruses in winter, cos it NEVER stops raining, which makes our atmosphere extremely unhealthy. |As for our summers, forget it. 2007 was a travesty, & this year will be even worse. It will only be a matter of time before we have years where it rains every day :wacko: Nowhere else in the world has to put up with this.....

[SnowBear]

Disagreeing is one thing, but...muppet?...Name calling and ridiculing is another. Where is the link to your forecast which fares better please?

Forecasting isn't always 100% spot on accurate. All forecasts fail at times, the overall accuracy over time is what counts. Even MetO do not get it correct all the time, they have a percentage they get correct. Forecasters do the best they can with the data available at the time, with so many factors to compute into a forecast it is impossible to get it 100% right every single time and the further out you look, the less accurate it will be.

I personally do not think our weather has changed that much apart from less cold spells in winter. The rain? People always moan about the rain in Britain, its been a favourite pastime here forever.

"Nowhere else in the world has to put up with this....."

There are places on this Earth far worse off than the UK for weather thats for sure.

[ukmoose]

From my memory of Jan 1987 and walking to school because the buses were out (to find it was closed and then walking home) and from childhood memories of the late 70s and early 80s, I will say this to anyone of the late 80s era onwards who wonder about 'real' cold....

That life might never be that way again makes me sadder than I could possibly say.

Better not read this SM - it'll make you cry. www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/article3085085.ece I agree with you, it is very sad.

Moose