The Great Global Warming Swindle

[Mondy]

Decided to start a brand new thread based on The Great Global Warming Swindle, a Channel 4 documentary starting at 9pm this evening.

It would be much appreciated if we could leave this thread empty of replies until the program has finished or if anyone has anything to add during the program...

It promises to be a thought-provoking documentary, for either the sceptic or believer of Global Warming, which should see this thread being a bee-hive of activity!

So, this is an initial "heads-up" for everyone to post their thoughts on the documentary, and I'm sure you all will!

More info on this evenings program can be found here

:huh:

[VillagePlank]

OK. I won't post here 'till later.

[Devonian]

OK. I won't post here 'till later.

neither will I :huh:

[noggin]

Article in the Mail online about it today. Lots of readers have commented and welcomed this airing of an alternative to the usual stuff spouted by the hysterical media. I'm really looking forward to it.

[parmenides3]

It's a testimony to the cleverness of C4's production team that this programme hasn't even come out yet, and the blogosphere is full of references, criticisms and comments, from newspapers, scientists and people like us. I just hope it isn't a disappointment, after all this hype.

I can't see it making any difference to our familiar views on NW, but it should stimulate some discussion, at the very least.

:)P

[Bobby]

Why just because it's on TV is it such a big deal? There are plenty of sceptical AGW arugments on the internet. Much more thorough and detailed ones too. Yet as soon as it's aired on TV, it's given a lot more attention and credibility? for some reason. It's hardly as if the arguments, evidence, theories etc that they will present will be anything new. It's already widely available, so why the big fuss?

[Mondy]

Jeez!! Program hasn't even been aired yet and out come the big hitters on Global Warming. Getting your knickers in a twist already, chaps?!

I can't see it making any difference to our familiar views on NW, but it should stimulate some discussion, at the very least.

P3. Exactly. It should stimulate, hopefully, discussion from members on here who have been less inclined to post on any other of the AGW/GW threads of recent. Same old faces, same old tunes...

so why the big fuss?

Perhaps it people like you, in the GW lobby, who are making the biggest fuss.

As was originally intimated in the opening of thread, why post meaningless remarks until the program is aired. It sounds embittered, especially with you and others being so pro-GW. I trust you won't bother watching said documentary? If so, no further need for you to post on this thread, is there?

Edited March 8, 2007 by Mondy

[Bobby]

Perhaps it people like you, in the GW lobby, who are making the biggest fuss.

As was originally intimated in the opening of thread, why post meaningless remarks until the program is aired. It sounds embittered, especially with you and others being so pro-GW. I trust you won't bother watching said documentary? If so, no further need for you to post on this thread, is there?

I will watch it, anything to do with the weather / climate I will watch. I'm not having a go at the programme, I am just wondering why the hell is there such a big fuss about it? Nothing in the program will be new, does the fact that it's on TV somehow give it more credibility? There's a lot more information and arguments against AGW on the internet to debate. A lot more detailed and straight from the source too. Just don't understand why this is such a big thing.

Edited March 8, 2007 by Magpie

[Mondy]

Just don't understand why this is such a big thing.

Shall i tell you why?

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof; man-made Global Warming is an extraordinary claim. There has not been extraordinary proof. Every single link, item, snippet etc posted by a pro-GW on any of the numerous AGW threads has been countered. There is no definitive proof on the subject.

Right now, it's a matter of believe what you want, on either side, but it's good to see from a sceptics POV that not all Global Warming programmes are aimed to make you feel as if you're the bad guy. Of course there are thousands of sceptic sources on the 'net, the difference this time is that a program maker has the balls to produce something that might, just might, make folks think, "hang on a minute...."

I'm guessing this documentary tonight will explore further into the above, whether it's for political reasons, tax issues or just downright denial of AGW. I think a lot of the emphasis will be on solar sources. That's fine by me - have said that along.

It's the shuffed in your face propaganda that really irks me coming from some pro-GW. I'm glad to say not on this forum though. We've had our disagreements, but generally conducted ourselves well. I think P3 touched on this a few days ago with regards other forums he frequents.

Let's just watch the program and gather round afterwards or tomorrow :huh:

[Admiral_Bobski]

Just a quickie until after the programme, but I think it's considered such a big deal because it has the potential to reach far more people than articles on the web. There's still a large number of people in this country who don't have access to the internet, so may have only rarely (in a few newspaper articles) come across the idea that Global Warming theory may be wrong. And, of course, large numbers of those who do have internet access probably don't look at that kind of stuff on the internet anyway.

This programme has the opportunity to spread an alternative message to a far larger number of people - on the internet you tend to look at articles you are interested in, but on TV you'll watch anything that's made a fuss of (I assume that's the appeal of Big Brother, at any rate). If this programme makes people who otherwise wouldn't take an interest actually bother to look at all the evidence, surely that can only be a good thing?

C-Bob

[AtlanticFlamethrower]

I expect GW skepticism to really kick off after this programme. I believe this programme is part of the final stage of the news gradually filtering down from those who know to those who don't that HGW is a theory, not indisputable science fact.

[Essan]

The programme would be great if a) the only way in which climate changes is with regards temperature and :huh: the only way in which humans might affect climate is by carbon emissions.

But that's not true.

So all it is is a pointless attack on one aspect of climate change with no reference nor regard for anything else.

A waste of time .....

[Mondy]

Is this video a waste of time? http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-4468713209160533271

Just interested on your thoughts, Essan..

[Essan]

Unfortunately I don't have time to watch it, and the sound doesn't work on my computer .....

I want to see a balanced programme showing all aspects of climate change and all possiblilties - both anthropogenic and natural. Any programme which sets out to disprove one possibility in favour of it all being down to another possibility is a waste of time since by ignoring other factors, and refusing the possibility that the factor they which to disprove may be contributory, they are presenting a very narrow minded and illogical approach. A lot of science seems to be like that these days though, just look at the 'what killed the dinosaurs' debate :huh:

[Iceberg]

I am glad the program is on, lets see if I can find anything good to say about it later.

Matt

[Rustynailer]

1 hour 12 minutes and counting.

...............I'll get my coat

[noggin]

I'm not having a go at the programme, I am just wondering why the hell is there such a big fuss about it?

Because it is going to put forward something which might indicate that the world populace has been fed duff information for years regarding the reasons for "global warming".

That's how I understand it, anyway.

It is great that another "side" of the "argument" (words in quotes used loosely!) can at last be put forward via the most far-reaching medium of all.

[VillagePlank]

Look.

All those who 'can't see the point' 'don't see the issues' and all the other complacent hand waving dismissives; remember: the naysayers argument may well be all over the internet, but only those interested will go and find it. Most of the people of the world get fed their information from rags such as The Sun, The Mail, and a whole host of others. To have a reasonable high-profile programme presenting the other side can only ever be a good thing. It might make those who read the afore-mentioned rubbish reason to think, to speculate, and perhaps, just perhaps, search out the truth in other mediums.

That, in my opinion, can only ever be a good thing.

[Hiya]

Devonian is gonna go mad, some intresting claims in the first 5 minutes that I'm not sure can be proved.

[ribster]

Why just because it's on TV is it such a big deal? There are plenty of sceptical AGW arugments on the internet. Much more thorough and detailed ones too. Yet as soon as it's aired on TV, it's given a lot more attention and credibility? for some reason. It's hardly as if the arguments, evidence, theories etc that they will present will be anything new. It's already widely available, so why the big fuss?

Because most people are only aware of the hysteria with regard to global warming, mainly driven by the media, which unfortunately is where the masses get their information. For once, they are going to be presented with the other side of the argument. While I am fully aware of arguments against global warming, many others are not - it's about time something like this was shown, maybe a few of the sheep will stop and pause for thought. Good on them.

[The Eagle]

Very good program. Watching it now.

[Iceberg]

Very disappointed so far, lack of science is very frustration.

At least it's brought out all the good old discredited sceptics like Cristy.

A few untrue's such as the comment about the limiting of the developing world and Africa.

The bit about the MWP was just wrong, the good old argument that climate is always changing.

Anyway it will please people that value talk over science.........

[ribster]

Very disappointed so far, lack of science is very frustration.

At least it's brought out all the good old discredited sceptics like Cristy.

A few untrue's such as the comment about the limiting of the developing world and Africa.

The bit about the MWP was just wrong, the good old argument that climate is always changing.

Anyway it will please people that value talk over science.........

Ah, the first dismissive comment. The comment on the developing world is a matter of opinion, just ask Mr. Geldof. The stuff about MWP and LIA is actually in the IPCC report, so I'm not sure what you take issue with.

But I fully expect some to rubbish the program in it's entirety.

Edited March 8, 2007 by ribster

[Iceberg]

ahhh yes, it's obvious that the developed world is using the AGW theory to limit development for Africa, it's nothing to do with corrupt governments, exploitation, trade barriers in farming etc.

The IPCC report does not say that the MWP was warmer than today.

Also interesting that they think all climate scientists have been brought and corrupted by money.....

As for the sun thoery, they should put there money were there mouth is and release it in a peer reviewed paper, but I forgot the science is flawed so they can't and instead peddle it in books, newspapers and media outlets.

There is room for a program giving the other side's view but this isn't it Yet !.

[The Eagle]

So many things ive been saying they are mentioning. In particular the real problem - financial vested interest.