Titanic Sinking

[Lincs Observation]

hi all

im not sure if this snippet of trivia is in the right area, but ill post it here and maybe the mods could move it to a more sutible forum.

I watched a seconds from Distaster programme last night on Geographic Channel about the sinking of the titanic.

did you know that at the time Titanic sunk that the past winter had suffered its warmest period for some thirty years, This is why there was so much ice floating so far south in the atlantic. The obsevations at the time was that ice has broken away from the artic ice shelf to the north of Canada in the winter and by the April all this ice was floating into the safer waters south of Newfoundland, the shipping lanes in this area were supposed to be the safer routes to america for liners at the time due to the fact there should not normally be any ice that far south.

This has reinforced my belief that we are currently in a cycle of warming climate, on another forum the point was made about the shrinking ice shelf and the danger of ice invading the atlantic due to global warming, i think this is just one of a long stream of warming cycles that have been the backbone of the planets growing up over thousands of years. Unfortunatly the titanic was at the wrong place at the wrong time, and if you look at weather events after this disaster i think that there was some of the coldest winters on record too.

In conclusion and using this fact as a loose example global warming is not now or never been a new thing, Global warming and global cooling are IMO a natural evolution of this planets life and if you look back in History all the evidence is there to say this is a cycle.

Hope that makes sense as this is such a vast and complicated subject.

LO

[Paul R]

Thanks for supplying this. I'm fascinated by Titanic and her sister ships, this has been interesting to read.

[sconetone]

I, too am fascinated by anything Titanic related

My Granny was a youngster in Belfast when the ship was built - I remember her telling me all about it, and since then I've been hooked on the history.

Shame they made that bleedin awful film a few years ago - 'A Night To Remember' beats it hands down !

[West is Best]

did you know that at the time Titanic sunk that the past winter had suffered its warmest period for some thirty years,

True. However, you need to be careful before launching from that into a facile comment about cycles. If we take the CET (the only measurement I have on the temps, and not unreasonable as it's a fair enough gauge of Atlantic patterns) then the CET for Oct 1911 through to March 1912 ran 9.3, 6.1, 6.2, 3.6, 5.4 and 7.2. The annual CET for 1911 was indeed very high at 10.05.

However, warm those these may have seemed at the time they are nothing compared to today's rises. We've just has an annual CET 0.8C higher than that of 1911 at 10.82C: an enormous margin in metereological terms. Even more shocking the Autumn CET for 1911 was 9.76, whilst for 2006 it was 12.6: nearly 3C higher. Sorry, cycles there may be but this is a whole new ball game. Please feel free to respond with facts, but I fear they won't support your attempt. Time for a re-think?

Edited January 4, 2007 by West is Best

[Lincs Observation]

Thanks for supplying this. I'm fascinated by Titanic and her sister ships, this has been interesting to read.

Thankyou emerson i too have an interest in titanic if you have satalite you can catch this programme on the 17th January but here is a link to a snippit of the programme http://channel.nationalgeographic.com/chan...lgeographic.com

LO

True. However, you need to be careful before launching from that into a facile comment about cycles. If we take the CET (the only measurement I have on the temps, and not unreasonable as it's a fair enough gauge of Atlantic patterns) then the CET for Oct 1911 through to March 1912 ran 9.3, 6.1, 6.2, 3.6, 5.4 and 7.2. The annual CET for 1911 was indeed very high at 10.05.

However, warm those these may have seemed at the time they are nothing compared to today's rises. We've just has an annual CET 0.8C higher than that of 1911 at 10.82C: an enormous margin in metereological terms. Even more shocking the Autumn CET for 1911 was 9.76, whilst for 2006 it was 12.6: nearly 3C higher. Sorry, cycles there may be but this is a whole new ball game. Please feel free to respond with facts, but I fear they won't support your attempt. Time for a re-think?

These facts are taken on board and i do realise that we were in another time regarding climate, but as i said in my last line it is a vast subject, However regarding my comment about cycles two such local events are relevant the first been that this country has not only been in an ice age but also a tropical island both in what historians class as recent times i bet if you look at your so called CET information going back to the beginning of time (if such information was avalible) you would see a global cycle, however there are also many other things to take into account ie, geology, oceanography amongst a few.

so i agree to a point with your comments but you too must look at the even bigger picture, i just used this particular subject as i felt it was interesting to have an insight into the climate at the time and the loose simularities to the modern world.

LO

[SP1986]

Thankyou emerson i too have an interest in titanic if you have satalite you can catch this programme on the 17th January but here is a link to a snippit of the programme http://channel.nationalgeographic.com/chan...lgeographic.com

LO

These facts are taken on board and i do realise that we were in another time regarding climate, but as i said in my last line it is a vast subject, However regarding my comment about cycles two such local events are relevant the first been that this country has not only been in an ice age but also a tropical island both in what historians class as recent times i bet if you look at your so called CET information going back to the beginning of time (if such information was avalible) you would see a global cycle, however there are also many other things to take into account ie, geology, oceanography amongst a few.

so i agree to a point with your comments but you too must look at the even bigger picture, i just used this particular subject as i felt it was interesting to have an insight into the climate at the time and the loose simularities to the modern world.

LO

I agree with both sides of the argument really. There is enough evidence through recent time to suggest GW/climate change is taking place and there is a gradual long term warming, however at the same time there isn't enough amassed data for thousands of years, as records only began in 1700 timeframe to prove whether large cycles existed or not.

That's why I don't comment much on climate change because while on the outset yes climate change is evident on the surface - ie were having these very warm periods which do suggest that GW is happening, how do we know it hasnt been this warm before, and CO2 has been higher in the past say 6000 years (as we havent taken specific records)

It's certainly something that both 'sides' of the argument need to take into consideration and be very careful when throwing stats around. This isnt just a weather phenomenon this could depend on the future of the earth and life on earth.

[Dazza]

LO does have a point, the information we have only goes back so far and the data available for this period only covers a miniscule amount of time compared to the life of our planet. Who knows, in the future there could be a massive turn of events which would turn everything on its head and it will be back to the drawing board for a rethink, not that we would necessarily be around to see it!

So in hundreds of years: data collection comparisons = yes,

now though:data collection comparisons = accurate? or risky in an attempt to be accurate? (if that makes sense?)

[Weather-history]

Back to the winter of 1971-72, sea ice extended further south than normal from Labrador and as a consequence there were higher than normal number of icebergs off Newfoundland. There was an extensive cold pool of water across the north Atlantic and probably contributed to the very cool June for the UK.

[Paul R]

Thankyou emerson i too have an interest in titanic if you have satalite you can catch this programme on the 17th January but here is a link to a snippit of the programme http://channel.nationalgeographic.com/chan...lgeographic.com

Unfortunately I don't have Satellite, but it's nice to know the programme will be aired on my birthday. Heh!

[cheeky_monkey]

wouldnt the stats about the warmest winter in 30yrs be about north america..as our winter temps would have no bearing on ice formation in the western atlantic.