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mike Meehan

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Everything posted by mike Meehan

  1. He has as much right to his opinions and the right to express them as you do - leavers often take one facet of an argument and use it to try and demolish all, instead of recognising good and bad points, which most arguments have, and when they cannot defeat the argument they attack the writer, which happens often on here. The dream part comes from the leavers with their unicorns and a vision of Shangi La, which was oft repeated during the campaign by the leavers - I notice they are trying to back pedal on this now, since it is becoming obvious that it is not going to happen, so the only thing I can see which is keeping Brexit afloat now is the hate they display for the EU - they never have a good word to say for it - now come now, nothing is never that bad on such a subject, it must have some redeeming features which you are too afraid to admit. Yes, it was Berliotz 'March to the Scaffold' written during a period of depression from having an unrequited love. Very apt for brexit, I thought, because I expect it will cause depression in most of us no matter which way we voted because it certainly does not show any way of working out, except for some who may be recipients of large brown envelops for services rendered. Then the actual march to scaffold signifies the downfall of our country as a result of that brexit.
  2. So it appears that you prefer to gain cheap brownie points rather than to comment on the substance of the article.
  3. https://news.sky.com/story/european-businesses-advised-to-avoid-using-british-parts-ahead-of-brexit-11395908 Do you know, it rather reminds me of this: Or perhaps this:
  4. Did you actually read what he said, or is that post merely a reaction to my comments? I have paid overwhelming attention to the brexit views, considered them but quite honestly have come to the view that they are making it up as they go along - they still have no plans, other than it will work out ok on the night - now that is blind faith following its uninformed archangel, 'The voice of the people'. Do you honestly believe that the UK should gamble its future on such as this. Chuckle time for me, methinks.
  5. https://www.churchtimes.co.uk/articles/2018/8-june/news/uk/eu-is-one-of-the-greatest-human-achievements-says-welby-and-that-s-the-truth I am not a religious man in the accepted sense and the only times you will find me at a church service will be for weddings and funerals, yet I am quite pleasurably surprised at the words of Marcus Welby, a man to whom I have paid little attention previously. However, unlike the brexiteers who consider themselves right in everything, I am willing to accept and consider ideas wherever they come from provided they have merit and from what I have seen that is also the EU way. He describes the EU, warts 'n all, as one of the greatest human achievements since the fall of the Western Roman Empire, which it is. It is the first time in history that half a billion people have come together voluntarily where the object of the system is to work for the common good of all. He is right and where there are faults in the system and we should be working from within, not without, to rectify these. The point I would add which he did not mention is that by doing this, Great Britain would be truly fulfilling its role as a great nation rather than running away, destined to fall into an ever deepening obscurity.
  6. https://evolvepolitics.com/an-exasperated-caroline-lucas-just-blasted-theresa-may-for-taking-the-pss-with-crucial-brexit-votes/ I think Caroline Lucas is right - Theresa May, driven by her right wing of the party appears to be willing to try every shoddy trick in the book in her efforts to ingratiate herself with her right wing masters and populace opinion in order to keep herself in power and by doing so has shown herself to be devoid of any real respect and understanding for and of the people - her description of the remainers as citizens of nowhere exemplifies that. The policy of the end justifying the means should never be acceptable in a modern free democratic society because in the end that will destroy democracy.
  7. Or is this a ploy to keep the information it contains under wraps whilst so many brexit matters are before parliament this month? I smell a rat and wonder whether the figures may weaken the government's case in respect of brexit. It would not surprise me and it would be in keeping with their MO.
  8. You said it Kent! Just because you don't personally know of any Kent it does not mean that they do not exist in the NHS - my consultant is Portuguese - there are many from different parts of the world including the EU, though many from the latter are leaving and that is probably part of the reason why the NHS is in such a mess at the moment. It's a bit of an exaggeration to suggest that 510 people from the EU would be coming to the UK, though it was something Nigel Farage tried to suggest with 70 million Turks and a million Syrians who had sought refuge in Germany. And why shouldn't there be proper security checks on EU citizens coming into our country? We have already have border controls where EU citizens could be checked on entry and at those border posts they should have access to the Europol database which effectively means that each and every one could be checked on entry. Then if by reason of the previous on any particular EU citizen his entry could be denied on the grounds that his entry would be prejudicial to our country. The loss of access to this data base after brexit will in fact mean that our people will be less protected. Also we have border controls and are not a member of Schengen yet it is estimated that on average 150,000 enter our country illegally, then continue to live here under the radar. It is a misnomer to say that Schengen is the cause of violence, crime and rioting per se. Those intent on it either creep in under the radar, or make sure they have the appropriate document, genuine or forged. What it does need to combat this is an increase in police officers properly trained towards this end and equipment, together with active co-operation and liaison between the different national police forces. As the UK has shown with its borders it is not possible, certainly with the meagre resources the government are prepare to invest, to make the borders secure. So the alternative to this is intelligence led investigations, which in my view would be more successful but the bottom line is that if the governments wish to protect their people they have to be prepared to invest. What would help would be a designed Euro Force operating towards this end, then on an economy of scale sufficient resources could be put in to enable it to work efficiently but unfortunately political ideals come before the saving of human life.
  9. Unfortunately WP, a lot of them thought it also meant getting rid of our colonial cousins, the ones with the brown faces and the leave campaigners, if anything encouraged that belief because they knew it would be a big vote spinner.
  10. Was that really necessary MIA? We leavers are exercising our democratic rights in opposing brexit, which we are fully entitled to do, as the Euro Sceptics did for nigh on 40 years and apart from John Major referring to them as 'bastards', for which I have little doubt he had good reason there has not been any like the current attempts to marginalise them as there is now to marginalise the remainers; we are not moaners, snowflakes, traitors or anything else you care to call us - no wonder the country is remaining so divided with attitudes like that. If you really wish our country to continue to be successful in the future, don't you think you should start extending the olive branch - you know magnanimity in victory - it works wonders.
  11. MIA, I did try sending you a PM at the time to inform you of this but I believed I just addressed as 'MIA' and the system did not let it though. However I had nothing to hide and was not worried about you knowing the source - had Paul asked me if I was willing for him to disclose it I would have agreed to that action - anyway, it is all water under the bridge now, except that I did not read it as a general comment but a personal comment directed at me in such a manner that appeared to be a slur on my integrity. This is a matter, where, though I say it myself, I try to maintain high standards and really have been sickened by the tactics of the leave campaign and subsequently by our government who don't appear to hold the same high standards; this was something I never expected to see this extent in my lifetime, despite being well used to dealing with other such people in other walks of life and I genuinely believe that this is not doing the reputation of our country any good whatsoever. There are no doubt some who will think it clever but any benefit will only be short term. In general the people who employ these tactics get their comeuppance sooner or later; believe me, I have seen it happen time and time again. My view of the other remain posts on here is that I do have respect for the views they put forward as genuine points of view, hence the likes but you have to admit that you are somewhat selective in what you chose to post to the extent it does not always portray an unvarnished truth as can be supported by facts. To be honest, I don't think that the facetious comments in rest of your post are necessary and do not really help the debate so we can either figuratively kiss and make up by letting bygones be bygones and discuss our differences in a more adult manner or continue in a state of hostility - it is up to you.
  12. In that case we may as well stick with the EU as full members and play our part in drafting the rules. Once we have decided that we can then start to address the many problems we have, for which, whilst brexit is still taking priority, there is neither the funds, the time nor the political inclination to address those matters which so urgently require the government's attention.
  13. "Additionally I would like to point out that no complaint has gone to Paul. Unlike when I questioned whether Mike was in contact with Brussels officials. I got banned for that, basically as it was considered to be 'personal' and I was told that I ignored 'reason'." Master of attempted spin again I see but the reason I made a complaint was not you questioning whether I heard personal contact with Brussels but because you made a personal remark which attacked my integrity - I feel that this should be corrected but otherwise leave it at that - I have no wish to raise old stories such as this. I will agree that the level of taxation has to be finely balanced because if it is too high people are likely to try and find ways of avoiding it and as a result it becomes counter productive as far as raising revenue is concerned. I'm afraid I did not get that bit about. 'Outside - all love and compassion, but inwardly are seething that they have not had their way and full of hate, for anyone who dares to challenge/question their views.' I think I can guess what you are getting at but it is not altogether clear. If you are saying what I think you are saying, in general the remain side try to put up well constructed views, supported by facts and also ask questions of the leave side but invariably they are ignored and it is quite rare, speaking for myself that when I put forward a point of view and ask a question of a leaver, that I get a coherent reply - often if there is a reply it is one which avoids the question posed altogether. You see, we are all goodness and light and only want which is best for our country which is not brexit. However, you can't deny that on the part of the leavers there is evasiveness at times, something I generally don't like because it often means that people have something to hide. Nothing more to say on this guv.
  14. In this case the word patriotism is a cover for a multitude of sins, for a start is being used as a cover for xenophobia and bigotry. The true patriots are those who recognise that we belong to something much greater than ourselves and working towards making that work and that is Europe. Even the leavers are Europeans whether they like it or not but they just close their minds to it and in their arrogance believe that they are always right.
  15. Kent the fact that you put the word Democratic in upper case does not make it any more so. The fact that it was a manipulative mendacious referendum cannot be undone - it happened - you would gain far more credibility if you accepted that but continuing to deny the facts which stare you in face does no good to your argument. At times you have to give a little to win a little. That and the narrow majority should have been good grounds for a rerun but the majority of MPs did not have the courage to upset the sensitive sensibilities of the leavers - they did not wish to risk their seats. In fact the whole shebang came about through the frailties of human nature which is a strange thing at times in the way it goes against perceived logic.
  16. Kent imagine a circle - at the top of the circle there are the middle of the road policies and ideals, then take both the left and the right path which goes towards the extremism of both left and right, then continue that circle round until they reach the bottom where they both meet again, showing that in effect there is little difference between them. In effect there was little difference between the authoritarianism of Adolf Hitler and Joseph Stalin, they both had their secret police, Gestapo and NKVD, respectively, they both had concentration camps and gulags, in both cases having views contrary to the official view were political offences which could be and were punishable by death. That is why we get very concerned by extreme right and left wing views. As somebody who has seen a lot of life, both from the seamy side and exemplary side but being a relatively ordinary bloke, I have developed into the middle of the road version. That also involves having respect for and looking at both sides, discerning the truth of what they say (you wouldn't believe how many people tell porkies) and deciding my position accordingly, without fear or favour, honestly according to my personal principles, as has been my life's work. Whether or not there is doom awaiting our country, I do not know because that is still in the future and I do not have a crystal ball - all I can say from straightforward common sense is that there is the path of brexit, where we have already seen some downturn and the path of the EU, which is more structured with democracy built in to its rules and regulations for the benefit of all. The path of brexit appears to be, without any rules or plans laid out, to be the most risky of the two paths and in addition it deprives the people of the UK their EU citizenship and is also unsettling for the 5 million or so people who are EU nationals who have settled in the UK, or the Brits settled in the EU with very little regard being given to their plights by our government. Invariably the people such as Trump and Farage are self opinionated people intent on stoking up the fires of discontent, even going to the extent of pouring petrol on the flames in order to bolster their own fragile egos and for the advancement of the self interest of themselves and their chums. The word 'altruism' does not exist in their dictionaries.
  17. It's what is called vicarious liability Dave - As the person in charge, you are expected to take responsibility for your department, or in other words 'the buck stops here', a notice which President Truman had on his desk. It is not a defence to plead that you did not know, or that you did know of whatever wrongdoing it was but it was the fault of some underling because as the person in charge, you are expected to know and/or ensure that the staff for whom you are responsible are properly trained and briefed. Many used to accept this without question and if a serious matter arose, they did the honourable thing and fell on their sword. Nowadays it appears to be anything but - the fashion appears to be having a ready made supply of scapegoats - Theresa appears to be a master of this - when she made a wrong decision as a result of what her advisers told her, she sacked them. She did not consider that they were there as advisors and that the final decision was hers, no, it was their fault. Obviously others see this, so it is little wonder that they use this same tactic of mismanagement, so as a result we end up with idiots hanging on to their ministerial posts when they should have been sacked ages ago. Perhaps the theory of debtor/creditor relationship may also come into play - if the debt of the debtor is sufficiently large then that gives the debtor control over the creditor.
  18. I'll wait until further news is in about this but any such attacks are terrible but if they are known to each other it makes me wonder if this is a domestic matter which would likely rule out terrorism but it is all too early to say.
  19. https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/young-may-head-for-exit-after-brexit-gssv3fmsk?shareToken=e64927e9a95a7e9625f0ac3cdc9c2508 Nothing ever really happens in isolation and invariably one thing introduced will have a side effect somewhere else. This would appear to be an unintended consequence of Brexit - it adds weight to the adage of , 'Be careful what you wish for'. We will have to wait and see what happens of course but there is a likelihood that a number of our talented young will go off to seek their fortunes elsewhere and who can blame them.
  20. That figures doesn't it - wasn't it 'like minded right wings in Europe' which seeded nationalism leading to two world wars? I expect Donald and his corporations will make a bomb out of suppling the different factions of the new European right wing with armaments - he has already shown he is in full favour of this through his support of the NRA. I'm afraid that that type of attitude will be shown to be short lived as the people start to realise the real motives.
  21. I could ask you exactly the same question Kent - so far from your posts I have gathered that you have some sort of totalitarian type of democracy which only applies to your side. 1) A result obtained by misleading the public is not democracy, it is manipulation. For people to make a decision in such a referendum the issues must be explained clearly and honestly to give them a fair chance to make up their minds. 2) Our system is a parliamentary democracy - that means our elected representatives sitting in parliament in order to debate, examine and finally make a decision on proposals for law. It seem that Mrs May thought that she had an executive power to by pass parliament and make decisions on her own account. Sadly for her the supreme court ruled against her. But not to be outdone, she turned to manipulating parliament by various means, including whips, bullying and various other means of coercion. She wasn't happy with the majority she had and wanted to increase that majority to make certain of her policies being passed, so she called for the General Election of 2017 - not a good move on her part, she lost her overall majority but not to be beaten she entered into an unholy alliance with the DUP, using our taxpayers money to the tune of a £billion, without any authorisation or say from the British public. Strangely enough, living at Watford I did not vote for any DUP members. 3) On the 12th of this month the withdrawal bill is coming before parliament with 15 amendments put forward by the lords which should be discussed, debated and finally voted on. The Lords discussed this for quite some time, I think 15 days but Mrs May has decided that the whole lot, including the voting should be completed in just one day - is that democracy in action or is it just plain straightforward steamrollering? https://www.channel4.com/news/mps-given-a-day-to-consider-brexit-amendments 4) The leavers try every way and which ever way they can to stifle the voice of the remainers, they refer to them in derogatory terms, they call them traitors, they don't even take any views the remainers have seriously - of course according to Mrs May we are citizens of nowhere which intimates that as far as she is concerned we have not rights. To me it looks like the leaver have not grasped what democracy is - they think it is one sided but it isn't. You talk about the government committing political suicide, they started the process of that when Mrs May stood outside the door of number 10, saying brexit means brexit on what was enacted as an advisory poll, which ended up with a narrow majority - you know something for parliament to examine, discuss, debate and finally come out with a decision 'Will we or won't we?'. Our compatriots in Europe were fully expecting us to go back to them to say, 'Look this is the result of the referendum, is there any more you can give us to satisfy the British public?' That would have been the sensible action but no she did not do that, instead her eyes started to roll with signs of 17.2 million potential votes for her and the tory party, not what was best for the country but for their own political preservation. No account was taken of the many in the deprived areas using the referendum to give the government a kick in the teeth and voted leave fully expecting remain to win. Now they realise the mistake and would love the opportunity to put that right, especially when countless millions in money and resources which could have been used for the regeneration of their areas, with a bit more come from the EU to make their lives better but instead they are likely to deteriorate further since Mrs May says money does not grow on trees, yet she throws it about with gay abandon to try and curry favour with what she still believes, surprisingly, with the brexit populace movement. Now what was that question about democracy again, ah yes a bent referendum where 37% of the electorate voted to leave the EU, which means that 63% did not vote for that. But of course that is the democracy according to the leavers which bears little relationship to real life and real democracy. For goodness sake Kent, take off your blinkers, stand back and look at the situation in its whole perspective as it is without falling back on urban myth and other fairly stories.
  22. It's full title is the Conservative and Unionist Party, so it looks like that in one foul swoop David Cameron and Theresa May re on the way towards destroying the whole raison d'etre of that party.
  23. We, on our side never asked for this referendum anyway Kent - it was called by Cameron simply as an ill judged manoeuvre to try and placate your lot - it was advisory but it ended up as a good proportion of the electorate getting hoodwinked by leave lies and leave urban myth. But now you come to mention it, it is now our turn and we will have another one, stricter controlled so the leave will not be able to get away with the same lies.
  24. With such an important matter as this a free vote should be allowed for all MPs. The whips wish to bully their members into following the party line, which si not democracy. Hopefully sufficient of them will start to develop more backbone and the whips and the government will end up with egg on their face.
  25. https://www.thelondoneconomic.com/opinion/brexit-leaders-prove-that-the-campaign-to-leave-the-eu-was-entirely-driven-by-self-interests/04/06/ Apparently Nigel Farage's motives were to underscore his political credentials - in this he has succeeded (to an extent, though he was never elected as an MP for HMG despite a number of attempts) but from a personal wealth point of view he qualifies (quite how, or whether it was justified) for an eye watering EU pension, in addition to which he has cemented himself onto the speaking circuit which can be lucrative. It never was for the people of the UK but a means for them and others to aggrandise themselves. We know about Nigel Lawson applying for his carte de sejour in France - nuff said about that. Jacob Rees Mogg expects to be in line for a huge windfall on his investments. John Redwood advised investors to avoid investing in the UK. And this is despite promising the Earth, with the UK becoming a land of plenty with unicorns during the campaign which many fell for hook, line and sinker. In short these and others conducted a cynical mendacious campaign for leave without any fear of any consequences should they get it wrong - they will continue to be ok but for the remainder who will be adversely affected some seriously so but it is a matter of little concern to them. They have no honour, they have no shame or conscience, they are unethical and they have no honesty. If other people behaved in the manner which they had, they would likely be incarcerated in the pokey. Hopefully if there is such a law as Karma they will end up getting their just deserts and perhaps recorded in history in a hall of horrors somewhere.
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